Jesse Marsch

[Muppet the Cat]

Would you rather be stabbed or shot?

A question for the 'General Chat' thread ?

[White Riot]

Almost like he felt obliged to give him some game time.

In fairness, Llorenete was ok last night. But you can't leave Cooper out. Any average fan can see that our organization is piss poor when he doesn't play.

Here's an idea. If you rest Cooper again, why not have him constantly warming up level with the back line so he can shout out orders? Is he allowed to do that?

I'm not a big Cooper fan by any means Andrew, but if a player is doing well you keep him in.

Kagey has made the point on his YouTube shows that it's almost like Rodrigo and Klich have been promised minutes by Jesse. Maybe it's the same for Llorente?

Koch and Struijk are our two best CBs for me, but we're so sparse on quality and options that Struijk has to play left back. Cos Firpo is just a walking disaster.

Broken Bamford still just strolls back into our first team regardless of whether he's fit, or capable. Fella looks done to me. But because of our lack of options he's a guaranteed starter, unbelievable Jeff

[White Riot]

A question for the 'General Chat' thread ?

New topic

Positive Vs Negative, remember that one

[Musicman1965]

Your rose tinted glasses have got all steamed up Kenny.
We conceded 20 goals in Bielsa's last 6 games in charge and only 5 scored.
We were heading back to the Championship with those figures and you can say what you want about how good his first three seasons were, they were but the team had completely lost the plot by the time he was sacked.
It was sad when he went but inevitable I'm afraid.

Valid points Chili D, unfortunately the truth is not what some people want to hear....

[Musicman1965]

The club bought Aaronsen, Adams and RK who all knew his system. The club also brought in Sinisterra who looks a very good signing as well as Roca. You can't just buy him a whole new team. It is hardly like the team demanded something unreasonable like top 6. The stated ambition was very modest but even those targets have failed to be met. A lot has been made of the fact we didn't sign another striker yet our no.9s have scored 4 from 10 matches. Over a course of a season that is 15 to 16 goals. Bamford got 17, I think, in our first season in the premier league and that was considered to be a huge success. So the fact we haven't signed another number 9 hasn't really made any difference to how we did in our first season. A lot has also been made of the fact we haven't signed another leftback yet most have Struyjk as one of our best players this season. It is easy to make excuses but harder to use those excuses as justification of how poorly we have done. One point worse off than after 10 games last season is a grim statistic. Also for those spouting about us being better defensively we have only conceded 2 goals less than in our opening 10 matches last season.

Yes some good points, the striker situation is something that does need urgent attention, do you really believe that an inform striker up front for Leeds would have made short work of the chances that have been created so far? 4 goals ok, 2 from Rodrigo and whats he done since...not a lot... There are major problems lets hope there is some sort of plan to stop the bleeding, or will this be a tourniquet around Jesses neck....

[Jaydog]

Would you rather be stabbed or shot?

Blown up

[Cjay]

The club bought Aaronsen, Adams and RK who all knew his system. The club also brought in Sinisterra who looks a very good signing as well as Roca. You can't just buy him a whole new team. It is hardly like the team demanded something unreasonable like top 6. The stated ambition was very modest but even those targets have failed to be met. A lot has been made of the fact we didn't sign another striker yet our no.9s have scored 4 from 10 matches. Over a course of a season that is 15 to 16 goals. Bamford got 17, I think, in our first season in the premier league and that was considered to be a huge success. So the fact we haven't signed another number 9 hasn't really made any difference to how we did in our first season. A lot has also been made of the fact we haven't signed another leftback yet most have Struyjk as one of our best players this season. It is easy to make excuses but harder to use those excuses as justification of how poorly we have done. One point worse off than after 10 games last season is a grim statistic. Also for those spouting about us being better defensively we have only conceded 2 goals less than in our opening 10 matches last season.

Don't forget that when Bielsa was here he often bemoaned our poor finishing and we are still relying on those 2 main forwards.

Even in the Promotion seasons or the 9th placed Prem one Bamford was not prolific as shown before with his chances missed and crucially his shot conversion.

And now he is a player whose barely trained or played for 12months, you take a less than prolific striker, get him all nice and rusty and then tell your manager to rely on him then goals will be an issue.

Rodrigo is a vanity signing that never fit any style, waste of time.

And 15 / 16 goals for 3 strikers in a season would be a shocking total imo.

I'm not defending Marsch tactically or stylistically but my god he has been asked to polish a lot of turds.

Adam Forshaw whose permanently crocked next man up as backup to Roca and Adams.

4 cbs who were part of a defence that conceded 133 goals in 2 seasons (lot made of the 9th placed finish but we still had the 14th worst defence for goals conceded).

Utility man Dallas out for the whole or most of the season.

Still relying on players like Bamford and Harrison who even back in the Championship Bielsa criticised for there finishing.

A cb (and no matter how he does that is what he is) being asked to play as an attacking full back or using an expensive flop who most fans have long since given up on. In a style that really needs mobile quick full backs to get up and down the pitch.

Most of us felt we missed an opportunity after the 9th placed finish to start the evolution of the squad, we didn't do that by choice.

So by design the club left itself far to much to do in 1 summer as you say.

The board choose to go into a totally different direction with Bielsa and Marsch and then is surprised when it doesn't work out when Marsch doesn't have the players that fit his style or is being forced to use players who have underperformed for a long time.

Marsch is far from innocent here but he definitely isn't solely responsible.

If you ask a manager to implement his style and don't provide the correct parts then it's never going to work.

Once the board decided on Marsch they knew (or should have known) a significant sum was needed, we probably needed to spend over £150mil this summer minimum.

Just to provide the bare bones of the tactical changes the board decided on when they changed from width lover Bielsa to narrow Marsch.

You can't go from two polar opposites on the bare minimum and expect a smooth and successful transition.

[andrewjohnsmith]

Don't forget that when Bielsa was here he often bemoaned our poor finishing and we are still relying on those 2 main forwards.

Even in the Promotion seasons or the 9th placed Prem one Bamford was not prolific as shown before with his chances missed and crucially his shot conversion.

And now he is a player whose barely trained or played for 12months, you take a less than prolific striker, get him all nice and rusty and then tell your manager to rely on him then goals will be an issue.

Rodrigo is a vanity signing that never fit any style, waste of time.

And 15 / 16 goals for 3 strikers in a season would be a shocking total imo.

I'm not defending Marsch tactically or stylistically but my god he has been asked to polish a lot of turds.

Adam Forshaw whose permanently crocked next man up as backup to Roca and Adams.

4 cbs who were part of a defence that conceded 133 goals in 2 seasons (lot made of the 9th placed finish but we still had the 14th worst defence for goals conceded).

Utility man Dallas out for the whole or most of the season.

Still relying on players like Bamford and Harrison who even back in the Championship Bielsa criticised for there finishing.

A cb (and no matter how he does that is what he is) being asked to play as an attacking full back or using an expensive flop who most fans have long since given up on. In a style that really needs mobile quick full backs to get up and down the pitch.

Most of us felt we missed an opportunity after the 9th placed finish to start the evolution of the squad, we didn't do that by choice.

So by design the club left itself far to much to do in 1 summer as you say.

The board choose to go into a totally different direction with Bielsa and Marsch and then is surprised when it doesn't work out when Marsch doesn't have the players that fit his style or is being forced to use players who have underperformed for a long time.

Marsch is far from innocent here but he definitely isn't solely responsible.

If you ask a manager to implement his style and don't provide the correct parts then it's never going to work.

Once the board decided on Marsch they knew (or should have known) a significant sum was needed, we probably needed to spend over £150mil this summer minimum.

Just to provide the bare bones of the tactical changes the board decided on when they changed from width lover Bielsa to narrow Marsch.

You can't go from two polar opposites on the bare minimum and expect a smooth and successful transition.

What's your thoughts on Marsch then? You say he's not blameless but most of the post is devoted to knocking the board, not making enough signings and/or the wrong signings.

If he gets the chance to sign 3 first team players in January (LB, MC, ST) are you offering Marsch the rest of the season?

[Cjay]

What's your thoughts on Marsch then? You say he's not blameless but most of the post is devoted to knocking the board, not making enough signings and/or the wrong signings.

If he gets the chance to sign 3 first team players in January (LB, MC, ST) are you offering Marsch the rest of the season?

I wouldn't have appointed him in the first place (it made 0 sense).

If results pick up and he gets 3 more players then who knows how we could do, it probably takes more than 3 to get the right starting 11 and matchday squad anyway.

Am I convinced by Marsch and his style? Absolutely not, I've never vetoed from that from the early mentions before he was appointed.

But I do feel sorry for him in the sense that he hasn't even got the right players to even try and implement his style properly.

If a manager hasn't the right squad then no matter the style the style will not work properly or consistently and you will never see what that style is capable of.

If Barcelona appointed Sean Dyche after Pep and he had prime Messi and Iniesta and Xavi and Pique and all that team but tried to implement his style do you think it would have worked?

"What we gonna do lads is we sit back, invite pressure and let the opposition pepper our box with crosses which our midget back 4 will defend against.

Then, if we do get the ball at the back, see that little Argentinian chap, we are gonna hoof ball at his head and see you Xavi and Iniesta, you are gonna get into em and fight for those 2nd balls and if you get them you hoof ball at that little chaps head in't box whilst he fights for header".

"Puyol, see you, if you get ball at the back you bypass that midfield and you just lob it forward at every opportunity, Iniesta I don't want to see no short passes, only lobs forward and fall over for freekicks".

It doesn't matter how good the players are at doing there job if the tactics aren't conducive to them. And it doesn't matter how good a style and philosophy is if the players can't implement it properly.

That is all I'm saying.

Maybe Marsch should adapt his tactics? But managers tend not to do that.

Maybe the style is a busted flush, maybe it is unable to work effectively in the Premier League or without the right players?

That then is both on Marsch for persevering but also on the board for the appointment in the first place and for failing to provide the necessary tools to give there man the best chance to succeed.

Someone will tell me I know nothing or shout Bielsa at me or something

But it's perfectly logical.

Tactics need the right individuals to implement them in order for the tactics to be properly judged.

Marsch was never the right appointment in the first place (I've never said any different).

But he was on a hiding to nothing once he was forced to use a squad lacking in the players necessary for his style.

[White Riot]

Blown up

You mean like the Bielsa bunny-boilers with their blow up Marcelo

[Kennyb41]

Huh? If he figured it out, why was Harrison on the bench last night? Harrison was poor when he played on the right. He played central against Arsenal. And even though that was a good team performance, Harrison didn't contribute a great deal. Only solution for me is Harrison plays left, Sinisterra plays right. He benched Harrison because he wants Sinsiterra on the left and that's the only position where Harrison has played well.

You're getting there.

No he didn't, he nearly got it spot on with Sinisterra - Jack - Aaronson against Arsenal, throw in Rodrigo and the 4 of them produced possibly our best performance of the attackers this season...He then tried to be smartarse and rotate in what he thought was a piss easy game by going Sinisterra - Aaronson - Summerville with a rusty PB up top..

Now that's the 'huh?'

[Kennyb41]

Almost like he felt obliged to give him some game time.

In fairness, Llorenete was ok last night. But you can't leave Cooper out. Any average fan can see that our organization is piss poor when he doesn't play.

Here's an idea. If you rest Cooper again, why not have him constantly warming up level with the back line so he can shout out orders? Is he allowed to do that?

Possible pressure from our Clown to play his superbuys ?

[Kennyb41]

Don't forget that when Bielsa was here he often bemoaned our poor finishing and we are still relying on those 2 main forwards.

Even in the Promotion seasons or the 9th placed Prem one Bamford was not prolific as shown before with his chances missed and crucially his shot conversion.

And now he is a player whose barely trained or played for 12months, you take a less than prolific striker, get him all nice and rusty and then tell your manager to rely on him then goals will be an issue.

Rodrigo is a vanity signing that never fit any style, waste of time.

And 15 / 16 goals for 3 strikers in a season would be a shocking total imo.

I'm not defending Marsch tactically or stylistically but my god he has been asked to polish a lot of turds.

Adam Forshaw whose permanently crocked next man up as backup to Roca and Adams.

4 cbs who were part of a defence that conceded 133 goals in 2 seasons (lot made of the 9th placed finish but we still had the 14th worst defence for goals conceded).

Utility man Dallas out for the whole or most of the season.

Still relying on players like Bamford and Harrison who even back in the Championship Bielsa criticised for there finishing.

A cb (and no matter how he does that is what he is) being asked to play as an attacking full back or using an expensive flop who most fans have long since given up on. In a style that really needs mobile quick full backs to get up and down the pitch.

Most of us felt we missed an opportunity after the 9th placed finish to start the evolution of the squad, we didn't do that by choice.

So by design the club left itself far to much to do in 1 summer as you say.

The board choose to go into a totally different direction with Bielsa and Marsch and then is surprised when it doesn't work out when Marsch doesn't have the players that fit his style or is being forced to use players who have underperformed for a long time.

Marsch is far from innocent here but he definitely isn't solely responsible.

If you ask a manager to implement his style and don't provide the correct parts then it's never going to work.

Once the board decided on Marsch they knew (or should have known) a significant sum was needed, we probably needed to spend over £150mil this summer minimum.

Just to provide the bare bones of the tactical changes the board decided on when they changed from width lover Bielsa to narrow Marsch.

You can't go from two polar opposites on the bare minimum and expect a smooth and successful transition.

Oh my good lord, i'm struggling to believe what i'm reading.

Ok, let's take out the team now Adams, Roca, Rasmus, Aaronson , how do you think we'll go on in the upcoming ?

Coz that's what Bert had to do - polish turds.

Pick your team go on ?

You can't say we've lost KP and Raph coz Bert lost KP and i've left Sinisterra there for you in place of Raph.

So pick your team and say if you think we'd struggle ?

Now that's when you have to try polishing turds.

[Kennyb41]

You mean like the Bielsa bunny-boilers with their blow up Marcelo

So even now you're still struggling to see what Bert was up against huh ?

Big Jesse has brought 4 of his choice players here and can't get any points after a piss easy run from the opening day.

And Bert got slaughtered for a run of 4 games where we suffered heavy defeats which a few of us could see coming coz he was crippled.

Go figure.

[Kennyb41]

I don't think "you know who" is coming back Kenny. But I'm thinking a 4-4-2 to add stability and width. You look at our players and this seems obvious to me.

...............................Sinisterra.................Bamford...................................

Harrison....................Roca.....................Adams......................Aaronson

Struijk....................Cooper.......................Koch.......................Kristensen

.................................................Meslier......................................................

Tbh Paul you seem to have a better idea going forward than Jesse.

[Kennyb41]

Your rose tinted glasses have got all steamed up Kenny.
We conceded 20 goals in Bielsa's last 6 games in charge and only 5 scored.
We were heading back to the Championship with those figures and you can say what you want about how good his first three seasons were, they were but the team had completely lost the plot by the time he was sacked.
It was sad when he went but inevitable I'm afraid.

1. My glasses are not steamed, but it seems yours are as you choose a period of 'last 6 games in charge' against 100+ games..6 games against whom ? How many of his preferred players out ? How many of his players being forced into other roles ?

And he hadn't lost the plot, he stuck to trying to get his players still playing what he had taught them, it's just the 2nd and 3rd choice players available at the time of those games were nowhere near as good as his first choice players.

[Kennyb41]

Valid points Chili D, unfortunately the truth is not what some people want to hear....

Are they valid ?

Is comparing a run of 6 very unfortunate run of fixtures when crippled to 100+ games actually valid ?

Hey Jesses just had 2 defeats against Arsenal and Leicester...He's got Fulham, Liverpool, Bournemouth, Spurs to come...are we gonna judge him on that piss easy run...ok then, let's go baby get your valid judging eyes on.

[Kennyb41]

Your wasting your breath, Kenny.

True.

But method in my madness, right i'm off to Leeds for the weekend with the hound, Guesthouse booked, ticket obtained, voice lubricated.

[Jaydog]

True.

But method in my madness, right i'm off to Leeds for the weekend with the hound, Guesthouse booked, ticket obtained, voice lubricated.

Will the dog watch at the guesthouse?

[Kennyb41]

You'll be leading the cries of Marsch out then, as Mitrovic's hattrick comes up on the twenty minute mark.

Have fun!

If i start bellowing "MARSCH OUT" ...half the stadium will be left wondering where the other half is going

Better with my famous Marcelo Bielsa chant i think and i've found a cute section that's on my side and will soon join in, that's if they haven't already started, oh Jeez, just imagine our away end at Liverpool, Spurs and Wolves if we lose tomorrow and God forbid Bournemouth do us at home