The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Friday 27th May) - Aaronson pens five year deal

[The Subhuman]

Lots of reasons we conceded a lot last season, none of them player quality

[Ellandback1]

Symth boasts that 'Centre-backs are the one and only thing that Jesse Marsch and Victor Orta need not worry about', yet the statistics tell a different story! Leeds conceded 79 goals last season; only Norwich (84), conceded more. Furthermore, Meslier was the busiest keeper in the Top Flight, making an average of 3.8 saves per game. If that doesn't set the alarm bells ringing, I don't know what will!

So can someone point me to the connection between conceding lots of goals and not having enough CBs..

Do the stats tell us we didnt have enough last time?

Weird logic there..


And welcome Brenden Aaronsen.

A midfield recruit at last!!!
The reasons we conceded so many are well documented

Anyhow I like Charlie mainly because of his physical presence, but both those lads could do with minutes in the Championship next season

6 centre backs is more than enough.

Our centre backs are the last line of defence. The defence let in 79 goals.

[William]

6 centre backs is more than enough.

Our centre backs are the last line of defence. The defence let in 79 goals.

You reckon a lack of Cbs was the reason we conceded so many last time?

[Ellandback1]

You reckon a lack of Cbs was the reason we conceded so many last time?

Where have I ever said that we have a lack of centre backs?

[William]

Symth boasts that 'Centre-backs are the one and only thing that Jesse Marsch and Victor Orta need not worry about', yet the statistics tell a different story! Leeds conceded 79 goals last season;

are they your words?

[RobbieLeeds]

I know we conceded an impressively bad number of goals but how many were under Marsch? Of course we played city, arsenal and Chelsea in that time but I thought we started to look defensively okay (somewhat) by the end of the season.
I 100% think it could definitely improve and a strong midfield in front of it will definitely help

[William]

I know we conceded an impressively bad number of goals but how many were under Marsch? Of course we played city, arsenal and Chelsea in that time but I thought we started to look defensively okay (somewhat) by the end of the season.
I 100% think it could definitely improve and a strong midfield in front of it will definitely help

Strong midfield has been the issue hasn't it.
From game one v Manu when we had Robin Koch trying to police Pogba and Fernandez.
If KP stays we are especially in for a vastly improved season.

[Jimang]

Cresswell is a definate starter for me. surely we have learned that our defence as a whole has not been anywhere near the standard required. Him, Heljde, Cooper and Struijk in centre, and two good defending Full backs should imo give us a much more secure defence.
Aaronsen looks a promising buy to me. We must hold out with Raph and KP to get full value for them if they decide to go. I would guess £75M and £65M would be a true valuation, so for £140M we should be able to buy four very good players ie two full backs, a defensive midfielder and a proven goal scorer.
Then if we offload Rodrigo, Roberts, Firpo Llorente and Klich, we should be able to buy another Centre Midfielder and a few squad players. With some good under 23 players coming through and some experienced ones such as Dallas, Forshaw, Koch and Ayling as back up, I think we can do much better next season

[andrewjohnsmith]

Symth boasts that 'Centre-backs are the one and only thing that Jesse Marsch and Victor Orta need not worry about', yet the statistics tell a different story! Leeds conceded 79 goals last season; only Norwich (84), conceded more. Furthermore, Meslier was the busiest keeper in the Top Flight, making an average of 3.8 saves per game. If that doesn't set the alarm bells ringing, I don't know what will!

1. I gave up on listening to that Connor muppet a long time ago

2. Welcome Aaronson. Reports from my US fan buddies are very positive. Hope he has a bright future ahead of him.

3. I hope Cresswell stays. I'd honestly be looking to sell Llorente. Koch, Cooper, Strujik, and Cresswell for me next year. As for the Leeds defensive numbers - those don't reflect the quality of our center backs. It's more of a reflection of Bielsa's attacking philosophy. Bielsa would play one holding midfielder. Marsch plays two. The poor numbers were down to the system, not the personnel. So, yes, we are comfortable at CB.

[weasel]

As the squad stands right now we have a glut of CB's but we don't what the situation be come the start of the season. Llorente and Koch might decide they want to return to their respective countries.
No way that Cresswell or Hjelde should be sent out on loan. They've both proved more than capable when they've played and Hjelde did well at LB when he played there which is where I think he played for Celtic?
They only thing they lack over the others is experience. Pre season will give them the chance to stake their claim and I feel that if JM thinks they are better than others, he will play them.

The concern is that we have a glut of injury prone centrebacks. If all are fit then it makes sense to send those 2 out on loan but equally would want a recall clause.

Hard to know what to make of Hjelde and Cresswell. A lot of fans had high hopes for Kenneh and he has just left. They have both looked promising but it is very easy for someone to look good for a few games but then fade very quickly - at this point could I just give a big shout out to a local lad, name of Jack Clarke. Would be great if either of them broke into the first team as a starter by managerial choice rather than necessity as that would say a lot about them ability wise.

[DDB220]

1. I gave up on listening to that Connor muppet a long time ago

2. Welcome Aaronson. Reports from my US fan buddies are very positive. Hope he has a bright future ahead of him.

3. I hope Cresswell stays. I'd honestly be looking to sell Llorente. Koch, Cooper, Strujik, and Cresswell for me next year. As for the Leeds defensive numbers - those don't reflect the quality of our center backs. It's more of a reflection of Bielsa's attacking philosophy. Bielsa would play one holding midfielder. Marsch plays two. The poor numbers were down to the system, not the personnel. So, yes, we are comfortable at CB.

Incidentally, I am totally with you on number 1

With regards to Raph - It would be a very very risky strategy (ludicrous some might say) to keep hold of Raph until after the World Cup on the basis that his value will increase ???

1/ What effect could keeping a player against his wishes (if he is set on leaving) have on his form with the added potential to unsettle the dressing room.
2/ there is absolutely no guarantee he would have a good WC never mind a stellar one.
3/ Retention beyond this summer is eating into his contract. Effectively a season and a half left on it. No guarantee that a team would be prepared to pay big money in January.
4/ What if he got injured.
5/ then you have what Kenny highlighted regarding the poor league position scenario.

The sensible choice for me is to sell him this window rather than speculating that his value may increase further. Far more chance of the opposite IMO.

[BlackHillsPaul]

I think the current CB group is fine. The talent and competition for places is there. It just needs better organization and a consistent run of games without injury. Cooper is the elder statesmen at only 30 yo and still in his prime. All of them have Premier League size. I'm excited to see young Cresswell as I have not seen him play yet.

Based on my own observations the problems with Leeds goals conceded was down to tactics. Under MB the team was tasked with attacking relentlessly from wide positions leaving only ONE PLAYER to provide cover for counter attacks. Time and time again the team were carved open. You just can't cede the center of the park like that. Particularly against much more talented attacking players in the Premier League. Leeds conceded just 35 goals while winning the Football League Championship. The first year in the Premier League they conceded 54 goals. That's with everyone healthy. The number ballooned to 79 with the injury to Phillips. But the trend was already set.

Getting a creative attacking midfielder or two is the right move. Brenden Aaronson is good signing I think. I would love to see the Minamino rumors come to fruition. And I think we need to keep Raphinha if at all possible. But Leeds better be looking to build a central midfield pairing and add some depth. And that may not include Phillips. Just my opinion...

[Ellandback1]

Symth boasts that 'Centre-backs are the one and only thing that Jesse Marsch and Victor Orta need not worry about', yet the statistics tell a different story! Leeds conceded 79 goals last season;

are they your words?

The exclamation marks indicate that they are Smyth's comments. Smyth is trying to say that Marsch and Orta don't need to worry about recruiting centre backs this Summer. My point is that we have a leaky defence which let in 79 goals, so I am suggesting that we do worry about it.

[William]

Symth boasts that 'Centre-backs are the one and only thing that Jesse Marsch and Victor Orta need not worry about', yet the statistics tell a different story! Leeds conceded 79 goals last season;

are they your words?

Can you see that you are spinning other peoples views though?

Smith said:

"Centre-backs, if you’re asking, are probably the one and only thing that Jesse Marsch and Victor Orta need not worry about, with Liam Cooper, Robin Koch, Pascal Struijk, Charlie Cresswell, Diego Llorente and Leo Hjelde all on board.

Whether the six will be present and correct come the start of next season is, of course, another matter.

Cooper again proved his importance to Leeds in the crucial final weeks of the season and, as club captain, is going nowhere. Koch will likely hanker after a return to his most natural position, after doing a job in midfield and at right-back, and deserves a run of games there".

Italics mine.

You turned that into Smith BOASTS

I appreciate your efforts each day to research the Debate mate but I have watched you misrepresent a few Leeds people and I don't think there is any need. For it.


As for your suggestion Leeds CBs are weak and need strengthened I reckon most of us would welcome investment elsewhere first.

[Jaydog]

The concern is that we have a glut of injury prone centrebacks. If all are fit then it makes sense to send those 2 out on loan but equally would want a recall clause.

Hard to know what to make of Hjelde and Cresswell. A lot of fans had high hopes for Kenneh and he has just left. They have both looked promising but it is very easy for someone to look good for a few games but then fade very quickly - at this point could I just give a big shout out to a local lad, name of Jack Clarke. Would be great if either of them broke into the first team as a starter by managerial choice rather than necessity as that would say a lot about them ability wise.

So don’t use Leo & Charlie because they could be another Jack. Strange. The cb’s that have been used haven’t set the world alight with their -79 goals. Cresswell looks the business to me, same as JG. No nonsense, which is what we could do with. And Leo at left back looked assured in defence to me what little I saw unlike Firpo who’s a disaster. It’s a thing isn’t it, the idea you can always buy what you need when you might already have it. But yeah they could be another Clarke so best give it a miss.

[The Subhuman]

We're set at CB unless we lose a couple.. Llorente and Koch are quality, Coop is captain and prem proven, not at the highest level but mid prem level. Hjelde over Cresswell for me, more finesse, better passer, but I like Charlie a lot, closest we have to Pontus. good in the air hoofballer... Struijk I feel is a DMF, MB was blooding him there but that has fizzled out a bit. He's maybe our #3 left sided CB

[Ellandback1]

Can you see that you are spinning other peoples views though?

Smith said:

"Centre-backs, if you’re asking, are probably the one and only thing that Jesse Marsch and Victor Orta need not worry about, with Liam Cooper, Robin Koch, Pascal Struijk, Charlie Cresswell, Diego Llorente and Leo Hjelde all on board.

Whether the six will be present and correct come the start of next season is, of course, another matter.

Cooper again proved his importance to Leeds in the crucial final weeks of the season and, as club captain, is going nowhere. Koch will likely hanker after a return to his most natural position, after doing a job in midfield and at right-back, and deserves a run of games there".

Italics mine.

You turned that into Smith BOASTS

I appreciate your efforts each day to research the Debate mate but I have watched you misrepresent a few Leeds people and I don't think there is any need. For it.


As for your suggestion Leeds CBs are weak and need strengthened I reckon most of us would welcome investment elsewhere first.

I honestly can't see that I'm putting a spin on anything. I'm very open on my own views, but try to give a balanced view. I think you're reading too much into the adverb I attached to Smyth's comments

[John in Louisiana]

We're set at CB unless we lose a couple.. Llorente and Koch are quality, Coop is captain and prem proven, not at the highest level but mid prem level. Hjelde over Cresswell for me, more finesse, better passer, but I like Charlie a lot, closest we have to Pontus. good in the air hoofballer... Struijk I feel is a DMF, MB was blooding him there but that has fizzled out a bit. He's maybe our #3 left sided CB

[Overman]

Can you see that you are spinning other peoples views though?

Smith said:

"Centre-backs, if you’re asking, are probably the one and only thing that Jesse Marsch and Victor Orta need not worry about, with Liam Cooper, Robin Koch, Pascal Struijk, Charlie Cresswell, Diego Llorente and Leo Hjelde all on board.

Whether the six will be present and correct come the start of next season is, of course, another matter.

Cooper again proved his importance to Leeds in the crucial final weeks of the season and, as club captain, is going nowhere. Koch will likely hanker after a return to his most natural position, after doing a job in midfield and at right-back, and deserves a run of games there".

Italics mine.

You turned that into Smith BOASTS

I appreciate your efforts each day to research the Debate mate but I have watched you misrepresent a few Leeds people and I don't think there is any need. For it.


As for your suggestion Leeds CBs are weak and need strengthened I reckon most of us would welcome investment elsewhere first.

I don't think 2ell does that at all and he does fine job of helping to keep this an engaging forum. So really no need to dig him out. As for the centre backs, it's more about quality than quantity.

[1964white]

Can you see that you are spinning other peoples views though?

Smith said:

"Centre-backs, if you’re asking, are probably the one and only thing that Jesse Marsch and Victor Orta need not worry about, with Liam Cooper, Robin Koch, Pascal Struijk, Charlie Cresswell, Diego Llorente and Leo Hjelde all on board.

Whether the six will be present and correct come the start of next season is, of course, another matter.

Cooper again proved his importance to Leeds in the crucial final weeks of the season and, as club captain, is going nowhere. Koch will likely hanker after a return to his most natural position, after doing a job in midfield and at right-back, and deserves a run of games there".

Italics mine.

You turned that into Smith BOASTS

I appreciate your efforts each day to research the Debate mate but I have watched you misrepresent a few Leeds people and I don't think there is any need. For it.


As for your suggestion Leeds CBs are weak and need strengthened I reckon most of us would welcome investment elsewhere first.

Elland poses the questions in his Breakfast Threads, they may come across as controversial to some, but I don't think he warrants criticism for the sterling work & commitment he provides to MOT every week day.

Matt is one of the most important & respected members on here, his contribution would be sadly missed if he was driven away from our forum.