Marcelo Bielsa

[SG90]

We changed our style last year due to the circumstances of being a man down and having a lead to cling on to. We rode our luck in that game and took our chances when they came. City are capable of smashing any team, same as Liverpool, Chelsea and Man U when they get it right.

Like I said though even if we went there with a full strength team and in the middle of a great run the bookies would probably have us losing by 3 or 4 as the most likely outcome. If someone had said to me before the game you'll lose 5-0 I wouldn't have been surprised. City can and do thrash teams when they get it right. Just look at the FA Cup Final of 2019 when they smashed Watford 6-0. That was a cup final not just a run of the mill league game. I just don't know what you realistically expected. Yes not to lose by 7 but hand on heart could you not see us losing comfortably?

As for people saying change tactics well we nearly got a point v Chelsea despite getting battered in the opening 15 minutes. Main difference there was we didn't concede a goal when we couldn't get out of our own half. City have scored 5 in 3 games this season and 6 in 2 games - when they get it right they score for fun.

Of course Bielsa can do wrong. I just wonder what these amazing tactics are that would have seen us not getting battered? Please share them cos even if we parked the bus I think we'd have got battered.

So how do we suggest we get our GD back after the lunacy of playing open attacking football against Man City? Because we've won 3 games all season and they've all been by 1 goal. We've lost a point on Burnley now with the GD.

[weasel]

So how do we suggest we get our GD back after the lunacy of playing open attacking football against Man City? Because we've won 3 games all season and they've all been by 1 goal. We've lost a point on Burnley now with the GD.

So parking the bus and saying to City you have the ball for 90 minutes and you won't get past our defence would have somehow miraculously stopped them scoring goals. Yeah right cos they don't have the players who can unpick the best defences.

[SG90]

So parking the bus and saying to City you have the ball for 90 minutes and you won't get past our defence would have somehow miraculously stopped them scoring goals. Yeah right cos they don't have the players who can unpick the best defences.

No, but you don't make it so easy for them and gift them the freedom of the pitch. You frustrate them by crowding the areas, and then use James and Raph's pace to try and hit them on the counter attack.

[Mountain]

We got a Ferrari. Got 2 years use of of it. It was amazing.

We've just been completely outpaced by an F1 car. And some are now grumbling that Ferraris were never that good, they should throw out the engine, change everything around, their engineers are too stubborn, we're shocked at just how fast those F1 cars are etc. etc. It's as if after 2 years of going faster and faster, news that the car has limitations and might sometimes be whipped by cars that cost 10 times more has come as a complete surprise.

[Chilli D]

So parking the bus and saying to City you have the ball for 90 minutes and you won't get past our defence would have somehow miraculously stopped them scoring goals. Yeah right cos they don't have the players who can unpick the best defences.

Wolves managed it Saturday, losing only to a penalty despite playing 45 minutes with 10 men

[SG90]

Wolves managed it Saturday, losing only to a penalty despite playing 45 minutes with 10 men

And Southampton and Crystal Palace as well.

[SG90]

We got a Ferrari. Got 2 years use of of it. It was amazing.

We've just been completely outpaced by an F1 car. And some are now grumbling that Ferraris were never that good, they should throw out the engine, change everything around, their engineers are too stubborn, we're shocked at just how fast those F1 cars are etc. etc. It's as if after 2 years of going faster and faster, news that the car has limitations and might sometimes be whipped by cars that cost 10 times more has come as a complete surprise.

We have 5 players in the starting xi who aren't PL quality; Dallas, Ayling, Roberts, Klich, Harrison. And they get picked every week regardless, so injuries aren't an excuse. Nothing to do with Man City or their wealth, typical deflection tactic. If you want to pick a squad with that much limitation, you're asking for trouble.

[1964white]

We changed our style last year due to the circumstances of being a man down and having a lead to cling on to. We rode our luck in that game and took our chances when they came. City are capable of smashing any team, same as Liverpool, Chelsea and Man U when they get it right.

Like I said though even if we went there with a full strength team and in the middle of a great run the bookies would probably have us losing by 3 or 4 as the most likely outcome. If someone had said to me before the game you'll lose 5-0 I wouldn't have been surprised. City can and do thrash teams when they get it right. Just look at the FA Cup Final of 2019 when they smashed Watford 6-0. That was a cup final not just a run of the mill league game. I just don't know what you realistically expected. Yes not to lose by 7 but hand on heart could you not see us losing comfortably?

As for people saying change tactics well we nearly got a point v Chelsea despite getting battered in the opening 15 minutes. Main difference there was we didn't concede a goal when we couldn't get out of our own half. City have scored 5 in 3 games this season and 6 in 2 games - when they get it right they score for fun.

Of course Bielsa can do wrong. I just wonder what these amazing tactics are that would have seen us not getting battered? Please share them cos even if we parked the bus I think we'd have got battered.

I'm not surprised we lost the game, had we approached the game more cautiously & suffered a 3-0 or 4-0 defeat it would probably been acceptable. We conceded the first three goals due to our own inept downfall, schoolboy errors at the back. De Bruyne's strike was stunning but look how much space he had as seven of our players were drawn out to the flank. Stones had three attempts whilst he played ping-pong with Meslier as our inept defenders stood around ball-watching, more schoolboy stuff!

I didn't expect 7-0, although we were so feeble the score could have been 15-0

Next battering coming up on Boxing Day, god help us as confidence must be low!

[Mountain]

We have 5 players in the starting xi who aren't PL quality; Dallas, Ayling, Roberts, Klich, Harrison. And they get picked every week regardless, so injuries aren't an excuse.

4 of that 5 featured regularly for a team that finished 9th last season. In fact one was player of the season.

[1964white]

We have 5 players in the starting xi who aren't PL quality; Dallas, Ayling, Roberts, Klich, Harrison. And they get picked every week regardless, so injuries aren't an excuse. Nothing to do with Man City or their wealth, typical deflection tactic. If you want to pick a squad with that much limitation, you're asking for trouble.

Thing is Bielsa doesn't play these players in their natural positions half the time.

James up front as a striker is the latest ploy!

[1964white]

And Southampton and Crystal Palace as well.

Southampton have learned their lessons from last season.

We are on a similar level to the Saints, Palace & Wolves, they adapt whilst we fail miserably!

[1964white]

So how do we suggest we get our GD back after the lunacy of playing open attacking football against Man City? Because we've won 3 games all season and they've all been by 1 goal. We've lost a point on Burnley now with the GD.

And at Old Trafford.

Anfield will be the same.

We could concede 20 goals in our away games v Manure, Citeh, Chelsea & Liverpool.

I suspect we'll be one of the few PL clubs to concede this total.

[CHAPELALLMAN]

Well we changed our style of play at the Etihad last season keeping it tight with 10 v 11 catching them on the break to gain an exceptional victory, damage limitation was the way to go last night. No other PL team will go there & get smashed 7-0, could quite easily been double figures if not for Meslier & Citeh missing other scoring opportunities.

How you say you are proud of that performance is beyond comprehension

Bielsa can do no wrong in your eyes, that applies with a few others on here who refuse to question his poor tactics & some of his ludicrous decisions.

Not only did we lose a football match we lost a valuable point as our goal difference advantage has gone out of the window now.

I suppose it could have been worse had Llorente, Raphinha or Roberts had picked-up another yellow card, naive & lack of forward-thinking once again when the game was lost, leaving essential players on the pitch so long required for the Arsenal game.

[Clacton White]

I think he will go of his own accord at end of season anyway , I still think he is the man for the job.........squad is limited and outside of the regulars pretty poor .The side exceeded expectations last season and everyone , probably Bielsa included , thought the side might push on this season but that hasn't been the case . Recruitment was dire really and that isn't Bielsas fault , many if the targets , whether rumoured or in negotiations were lost - that is Orta's job at which he more often than not , fails miserably .OK , got Dan James , but was a winger top option ? Other area's needed and still need strengthening , so January is another chance for Orta to show how useless he is . I guess Raphinha was more luck than judgement on Orta's behalf . Like I say I think Bielsa will go in the summer , realising how much time and effort to get to a higher level this is , but we should be thankful he got the side out of the championship...........you could be looking at Steve Bruce alternatively , or similar .

[1964white]

My morning after thoughts. We were outplayed, out fought and outclassed by City, one of the top 5 teams in Europe and with unlimited resources we can only dream of (that diving c**t Grealish cost more than our first 11 last night). They were up for it from the first minute, we didn't turn up. Did Bielsa get the tactics wrong, perhaps, but as others have said, we are set up to play a certain way and we had the entirety of the spine of our team missing. Even with Cooper, Phillips and Bamford available, we would still have been serious underdogs. It's not that long ago that we were getting spanked 6-0 by Wednesday in the Championship; the reason we were facing City in the PL last night is down to one man, and the idea that we sack him is ludicrous. That's not blind loyalty to Bielsa, more a recognition that teams in trouble (and we are) rarely sack their way out of it. This is Bielsa's squad, his system and I believe he is the man to turn this around. I will also say that I think the club and some of the fan base were duped by our 9th place finish last season into thinking we were set and capable of competing in the PL year on year. That was a mistake, we needed to freshen up the squad in the summer and we didn't. A rotten run of injuries, coupled with MB's insistence on a small squad has left us with bare bones, so a result like last night was always a possibility. Perhaps I'm in a minority, but I do think we will be fine with a full squad to call upon. And maybe an addition or two in January. Keep the faith.

Don't remind me, Nick.

I was there, the week after we'd been dumped out of the FA Cup by Rochdale. Two horrific displays that still linger in my memory

[Clacton White]

Wolves managed it Saturday, losing only to a penalty despite playing 45 minutes with 10 men

Maybe after 4 years of Bielsa all they don't know how to park the bus . Maybe the Chelscum result took a toll . Maybe City are lightyears ahead of Chelscum, hope they are , would hate that scummy side to win the league .

[CHAPELALLMAN]

Thing is Bielsa doesn't play these players in their natural positions half the time.

James up front as a striker is the latest ploy!

I have to go back to it - and it wont be popular with some on here.

We have been a soft touch defensively ever since Jansson was sold - the player that one season MB named as his best player. Yes, for the time that Ben White was here on loan a bandage was put over the gaping wound created by the departure of Jansson, but ever since White went back to Brighton the old wound has become exposed again, got worse and now gangrine has started to set in.

It's lovely having these fancy-dan ball playing CBs such as LLorente, but I would prefer a good old blood and thunder CB in the tradition of Charlton or Jansson. There is a very good reason why Leicester, Everton and Newcastle are after Jansson with his contract at Brentford shortly expiring - he's a bloody good CB who is brilliant in the air. I think that falling out with Jansson has been the biggest mistake of Bielsa's tenure at the club.

And what exactly was the point of signing Koch ? Is it one game he has played as a CB ? Most of the time he has been injured of course, but Orta has a special talent for signing crocked players...

[Carrick Dave]

It's ridiculous to say tactics are to blame. We could have gone defensive and got battered by more. I made the point earlier that we were around 25-1 to win with the bookies. We were only 16-1 to beat Man U in the FA Cup when we were in League 1. The bookies could see the gulf in the abilities of the squads even if some fans can't. Fact of the matter is that against Chelsea we got penned in for the first 15 minutes but survived and grew into the game, same as against City last year in the draw at ER. Give a team like Chelsea, Man U, Liverpool or City a helping hand and they are capable of spanking anyone. To get any sort of result we would have not only needed an almighty performance but a huge helping of luck or poor finishing. As it was City finished well and got all the breaks after that any performance is fairly much irrelevant to the outcome.

We were a team devoid of our spine - Cooper - KP - Bamford. For all the abuse Cooper gets he is a vital part to our spine. KP well the stats show how much we miss him and shows why he is worth £50m+ and why you can't simply have a back-up that is nearly as good. A full strength team would as likely as not get spanked by City let alone a team missing crucial players.

I can't believe anyone expected a change of tactics at half time. What would be the point in that? Change to a style we aren't used to playing against arguably the best team in Europe - yeah that would work. What would have been the point? To try to keep the scoreline down. I for one applaud Bielsa for allowing the players to have a go, just like he did against MU last year where we could have got 3 or 4 back not just 2. Why bring Gelhardt on and then go defensive? Let the lads try and score, let Gelhardt or Roberts get the chance to get a goal, let's show a bit of fight.

I was proud to see our players still trying to score when 7-0 down, at times carving City open. We deserved a goal or two. My faith in Bielsa is as strong as it has always been.

Great post weasel.

[Carrick Dave]

Mate we just experienced a humiliation and gave City the easiest game they have had in years, even MB admits they didn't have to play well we handed it to them on a plate.

We arent the same team as last year, thats clear to everyone, the performances this season largely show that. Chelsea was decent but lets be honest that was a rare highlight performance wise in a season that has seen 3 wins in 17 which by any measure would be considered very poor. And regardless of performance we lost vs Chelsea anyway and frankly we have reached a point in the season where points matter more.

We have already tried to go toe to toe with a superior team a few times this season and we got brushed aside each time(and lost every time anyway). Against this City side its suicide to play how we did especially with our injuries. If Bielsa refuses to use injuries as an excuse why are we?

Nobody deserves credit for a 7-0 defeat, this isn't a plucky league 1 side in the fa Cup vs Man City. Even though clearly a gulf exists it shouldn't be that clear, it hasnt been for any other Premier league sides this season.

Few years back they beat Burton 9-0 in the cup. They had more shots (31-28) vs us than they did Vs Burton) it was a disgrace.

And yes if necessary to try and keep the score down, sometimes you need to try damage limitation. Our goal difference took a battering and do our players sit there tonight thinking "well least we had a go".

No i expect they sit there demoralised from a humiliating defeat in front of the entire football nation and listen and read as the opposition fans take the piss and the media rip them apart and then you know what else may happen? They start to question whether the manager got it wrong.

And i think we all know that the players will privately be talking about that because that is what happens and our players will be no different to all the other teams who reach this point in the season where we are.

Players arent robots and it would only be natural to question that after a defeat like today as undoubtedly they to will deal with banter and what notfrom friends and family.

As mentioned before i think sacking Bielsa is pointless with this squad anyway but as a manager to have as you yourself allude to a 1 dimensional squad its not a good thing and i do think he got it wrong today. Ive given my view on what MB could do differently before and i think today was one of those times.

Whilst a new manager would struggle to change a system mid season Bielsa should know this squad well enough to make minor tweaks to makeus more solid when necessary.

I dont think any manager deserves credit for not trying something different in desperate circumstances like today.

We all love Bielsa but we have put up with some humiliations.

Playoff defeat, Manure battering us, Liverpool battering us and this as well, no manager can complain if they get criticism after things like those imo and tbf i imagine Bielsa knows that.

Incidentally he called this our worst performance so he knows he got it wrong to.

Great post Cjay.

[Carrick Dave]

I have to say that the overall response of posters to that shambles last night has been thoughtful and considered.

We’re all hurting this morning and I expected many people to be screaming for Bielsa’s head regardless. The consensus appears to be more an acknowledgement that he has worked wonders with limited resources, that someone coming in is likely to do a lot worse but that he needs to be more open to changing his approach depending on who we’re playing on the day and altering tactics in-game to suit the circumstances. I can’t argue with that.

We are likely to lose against both Arsenal and Liverpool based on last night’s showing, so there will be more pain to come. As others have said, as long as we compete and take points off the teams around us we’ll stay up.

I just hope that come Boxing Day there is enough fight left to make that happen, and that’s where Marcelo really earns his corn for me, not whether or not we get humped by a side worth more than our whole club several times over.

Keep believing, MOT.