Jesse Marsch

[Kennyb41]

I think he's very close to reaching his peak with this Leeds team.

That's how good he is.

[Jaydog]

One of the main criticisms or concerns around Marsch for me (performances and results aside) is I'm not convinced he is a Football manager in anything but name.

No football manager has been truly unique for decades (even Bielsa). Every idea has been conceived by somebody before and its been that way for years.

What tends to happen is a manager has various influences and then throws in there own thoughts and makes a style.

Bielsa took ideas from Van Gaal and Carlos Bilardo and others and put them together and made his style with his own ideas

Pep took ideas from Bielsa and Cruyff and others and put his own ideas and made a style

Klopp took ideas from Rangnick, Sacchi and others and put his own ideas in and made a style etc

Marsch being a very clever man as he is seems to have read Ralf Rangnick's coaching manual and absorbed it (as an intelligent man like him can) and that's it

Thats what he has.

That isn't being a football manager, that's plagiarism.

What ideas of his own has he got? Where is his input?

I don't see a football manager, I see an academic

It’s very rare for anyone to be truly unique in life let alone sport. To be the first. Impossible in football.
I think the trouble is Marsch believes he is the business. And that makes him far more dangerous

[BlackHillsPaul]

Pep is no footballing genius. But he is an OUTSTANDING man manager. Particularly with top players. The spoiled brats and egomaniacs that populate top football clubs. That is his gift. Virtually everything in his tactical handbook was developed by someone else. Which is not to slight him. But just to accentuate Cjays point that tactical football innovation is the domain of very few. We happened to have one of them at Leeds for almost 4 seasons.

[Jaydog]

Well Jesse made the first happen.... I'll open the back door just in case!

Is that a euphemism?

[Cjay]

I don't even see this supposed intelligence... there should be a modicum of self-awareness and critical thinking, surely? And he ability to communicate ideas without resorting to swooning, fisting, pumping, felching etc.

Very educated man, graduated from one of the top Universities in the World.

He is certainly a step above almost everyone in football in that respect.

So did Lampard (not the same level) but in Football terms he is also far more educated than the norm.

Interesting that they share similar traits.

Arrogance, inability to accept fault, tendency to blame others.

Maybe it comes from feeling as if you are better than everyone else

[Jaydog]

I’m concerned now. I know what fisting is as Weasel explained it to me but felching. I just looked that up.
Swiss Tony would not be impressed

[Jaydog]

It's because you didn't graduate from a top university.

Just as well although my lack of anal sex knowledge has probably held me back

[weasel]

Very educated man, graduated from one of the top Universities in the World.

He is certainly a step above almost everyone in football in that respect.

So did Lampard (not the same level) but in Football terms he is also far more educated than the norm.

Interesting that they share similar traits.

Arrogance, inability to accept fault, tendency to blame others.

Maybe it comes from feeling as if you are better than everyone else

I don't think normal education and understanding football are particularly related in terms of being clever would make you a better football manager and understand tactics more.

[weasel]

Just as well although my lack of anal sex knowledge has probably held me back

Yeah you don't want to go diving in there half cocked.

[Jaydog]

Yeah you don't want to go diving in there half cocked.

I think you understand this type of thing better than me. A Fist from Cambridge probably. I mean a First

[Clueless Yank]

One of the main criticisms or concerns around Marsch for me (performances and results aside) is I'm not convinced he is a Football manager in anything but name.

No football manager has been truly unique for decades (even Bielsa). Every idea has been conceived by somebody before and its been that way for years.

What tends to happen is a manager has various influences and then throws in there own thoughts and makes a style.

Bielsa took ideas from Van Gaal and Carlos Bilardo and others and put them together and made his style with his own ideas

Pep took ideas from Bielsa and Cruyff and others and put his own ideas and made a style

Klopp took ideas from Rangnick, Sacchi and others and put his own ideas in and made a style etc

Marsch being a very clever man as he is seems to have read Ralf Rangnick's coaching manual and absorbed it (as an intelligent man like him can) and that's it

Thats what he has.

That isn't being a football manager, that's plagiarism.

What ideas of his own has he got? Where is his input?

I don't see a football manager, I see an academic

Well, the Red Bull... organization? suprastructure? I don't even know what to call it... has a reputation for being somewhat dogmatic. As you alluded to, everyone is taking ideas from somewhere so that alone isn't a problem.

As for creativity -- a major problem he had in Leipzig was that he came in fresh off the assembly line as the next guy who'd crushed opponents' souls at Salzburg. And he was ready to win "the Red Bull way," but the players were like, "Nagelsmann was doing things the Red Bull way but better, and you're going backwards."

I don't know if the players were fair to think that or not. Leeds' players seem rather more amenable to the approach, but they weren't getting "Red Bull 2.0" from the prior coach, and Leipzig's were.

No one worth listening to thinks JM is unintelligent, but sometimes intelligent people can be stubborn and prevent their own learning, as you allude to.

[weasel]

I think you understand this type of thing better than me. A Fist from Cambridge probably. I mean a First

I had a strange experience on the only time I went to Cambridge. I ended up getting punted down the Cam by an uppity oik. We ended up crashing into a boat with some rather nice chaps in who apologised profusely as apparently they had useless c**ks. I'll be b*ggered if I go back there again.

[Jaydog]

I had a strange experience on the only time I went to Cambridge. I ended up getting punted down the Cam by an uppity oik. We ended up crashing into a boat with some rather nice chaps in who apologised profusely as apparently they had useless c**ks. I'll be b*ggered if I go back there again.

Couldn’t agree more. I go there occasionally and always keep my back to the wall if you’ll excuse the pun.
Just a footnote did you know that is the 3rd most common reason for divorce in the U.K. Useless c**k I mean

[Kennyb41]

Pep is no footballing genius. But he is an OUTSTANDING man manager. Particularly with top players. The spoiled brats and egomaniacs that populate top football clubs. That is his gift. Virtually everything in his tactical handbook was developed by someone else. Which is not to slight him. But just to accentuate Cjays point that tactical football innovation is the domain of very few. We happened to have one of them at Leeds for almost 4 seasons.

I accept the man - management.

I find it hard to really rate Pep highly because of the money he walks into at the top jobs with the best players, if not already there, he sets about spending, he was handed a Barca side my mum could manage.

Until he does something special from the ground up like my beloved, he can fck off.

[Kennyb41]

Felching, what a great word, i don't think i'll bother looking it up, i will gladly use it wherever and whenever it takes my fancy, hopefully in a completely wrong sentence and conversation.

[Jaydog]

Felching, what a great word, i don't think i'll bother looking it up, i will gladly use it wherever and whenever it takes my fancy, hopefully in a completely wrong sentence and conversation.

I’d look it up if I were you

[Mountain]

I accept the man - management.

I find it hard to really rate Pep highly because of the money he walks into at the top jobs with the best players, if not already there, he sets about spending, he was handed a Barca side my mum could manage.

Until he does something special from the ground up like my beloved, he can fck off.

They are chalk and cheese. Guardiola goes for the best clubs with the biggest budgets, where runner up is failure. Bielsa goes for the completely different set ups, faded giants, where success is measured very differently. I suspect Bielsa might find it difficult to manage a superstar on 500k a week, and Guardiola might not coach a Stuart Dallas to be player of the year in a PL team.

[Jaydog]

Absolutely the best way to use it. Ignore Jaydog!

Actually I’ve changed my mind. Use away Kenny. I’m going to use it instead of fetch or fetching from now on. “You look very felching tonight dear” or “shall I felch that for you madam”. Works for me

[weasel]

Actually I’ve changed my mind. Use away Kenny. I’m going to use it instead of fetch or fetching from now on. “You look very felching tonight dear” or “shall I felch that for you madam”. Works for me

I'm off out to play felch with the dog might be a no no!

[Jaydog]

I'm off out to play felch with the dog might be a no no!

Especially if your wife looks it up after you leave for the park.
I have to say I have one question. Why felch? I’ve genuinely never heard of it. And some people use a straw apparently. I prefer a milk shake but hey I’m a bit boring in fairness