Leeds Utd V Liverpool Match Thread

[BGwhite]

If we're still in the same position in a couple of months then Bielsa will even start questioning himself (surely). By then the players will be rock bottom and the rot will have started.

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[Mountain]

Everyone is dancing round it so just to ask the question. How does everyone think we would get on if Bielsa left or was fired.

Plummet like a stone. Second lowest wages in the EPL, the chances of finding another miracle worker after Bielsa is close to zero. Back down for another 10 or 20 years battling Forest, Derby, QPR, West Brom, Blackburn and all the other clubs that, like a lot of Leeds fans, think we have some right to be in the top flight.

[SG90]

Everyone is dancing round it so just to ask the question. How does everyone think we would get on if Bielsa left or was fired. Would a different manager playing different tactics, maybe utilising the whole squad including youngsters get better results from these players? Bielsa himself seems to blame himself after every result yet dosnt seem to change all that much in the next game - so maybe he has run out of ideas and dosnt want to replace the players he has relied upon for 3 years.

Personally I think he is still the best chance we have of surviving but I do wonder if he is the man to take us further.

It's a tough one. I'll always be grateful for what he's done here, but if we go down, then it's on him. He turned down quality players this summer, he wanted to spend £25m on James, he didn't want a CM to rely on Forshaw, he never gives u23s a chance, he picks the same players every week for 4 years rather than freshen it up. Hopefully he will keep us up this season. But I do think next summer we'll be having a new manager.

[YorkshireSquare]

Not too concerned with the result, I expected us to get beaten. City, Scum, Liverpool and Chelsea are a step above the rest.

The issue is we haven't clicked this season, the areas of weakness are the same as last season and we are showing no signs of resolving them. Three centre backs now out and no clear solution to our midfield issues.

[SG90]

Yes, because they are Leeds players. He referred to Raphinha "carrying mediocre players", he didn't exclude any Leeds players. You have read into that the qualification "not including Phillips and Meslier".

Furthermore, even if we park the difference on interpretation, my point still stands. If Raphinha looks like he is p****d off with some, many or all of his colleagues, that's ugly. Maybe when he gets to the Ronaldo stage in football, he can give teammates the fed up routine.

If Raph is unhappy, then it just shows he has ambition. What's wrong with that? If any Leeds fans are happy with the current situation, then they have no ambition imo. We completely wasted a great chance to push on and now have gone backwards as a result.

[danhirons]

Not too concerned with the result, I expected us to get beaten. City, Scum, Liverpool and Chelsea are a step above the rest.

The issue is we haven't clicked this season, the areas of weakness are the same as last season and we are showing no signs of resolving them. Three centre backs now out and no clear solution to our midfield issues.

I'd agree with this a lot

We have the usual panic posts after every loss

It's the centre mid issues that are a concern. Rodders looks so out of place there

Plus, as you say, it just hasn't clicked like it did last ten games of last season

This season was always going to be about staying up for me, especially after the lack of investment

[SG90]

Not too concerned with the result, I expected us to get beaten. City, Scum, Liverpool and Chelsea are a step above the rest.

The issue is we haven't clicked this season, the areas of weakness are the same as last season and we are showing no signs of resolving them. Three centre backs now out and no clear solution to our midfield issues.

What about the Burnley game? We were awful then too. Against Crewe we struggled for long periods as well.

[1964white]

Clipperty Klopp was asked after the game about his going onto the pitch to harangue the ref. "What did you say to to the ref" He was taken aback by the question. Couldn't answer and then mumbled about "it was nothing" but I have to say that he looked very sheepish...
....very sheepish indeed

Klopp obviously influenced the ref to give Pascal a red card.

[YorkshireSquare]

What about the Burnley game? We were awful then too. Against Crewe we struggled for long periods as well.

As I say, we haven't clicked yet and we still have the issues in midfield and defence. Midfield the biggest area for us, we can't hold onto the ball, can't dictate play. Phillips is class but he can't do it all on his own.

[BGwhite]

Watch the ref , long after the ball had gone his arms were still by his side, he had no intentions of giving a free kick never mind a red card. Klopp influenced it all no doubt.

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[Mountain]

If any Leeds fans are happy with the current situation, then they have no ambition imo. We completely wasted a great chance to push on and now have gone backwards as a result.

Where do you think a club with the second lowest wages in the league should finish? How does a club where the highest paid player make slightly more than the average wage of an EPL squad player "push on"?

There is one harsh reality we can't just gloss over. The finances, especially the wages. Last season was a miracle. To expect the club to repeat it or do better is simply unrealistic.

[SG90]

Where do you think a club with the second lowest wages in the league should finish? How does a club where the highest paid player make slightly more than the average wage of an EPL squad player "push on"?

There is one harsh reality we can't just gloss over. The finances, especially the wages. Last season was a miracle. To expect the club to repeat it or do better is simply unrealistic.

Who cares about wages? Give a pub player £100k a week and he'd still be a pub player.

Well we shouldn't be relying on miracles, that's my point. We spent £25m on average winger and £13m on a LB who looks worse than his replacement. We needed an 8 and a playmaker desperately and got neither.

Imo the club were arrogant and delusional thinking that just because we finished 9th last season it would happen again. It was obvious the players would reach their max at some point.

[YorkshireSquare]

Klopp obviously influenced the ref to give Pascal a red card.

Shouldn't have been on the pitch

[Cjay]

Also worth noting we have actually played 11 matches this season including pre season and nothing has changed yet.

The things being said now about performances were being said in the pre season.

Results are one thing performances are another, performance is a far more concerning thing in the short term.

10 games including pre season, we should see an upturn by now and we havent.

[Cjay]

I tend to agree with most of what you say and on this occasion I do again.
Shall we say that atm all seems a bit stale. The club needed a new Pablo, someone to pull the strings and orchestrate proceedings but instead they opted to stay with the tried and tested therefore the same old same old so do they honestly think that those same old and now tiring players will improve on last season and take the club forward ? Personally I think not , it is time to introduce new hungry players before we lose those to clubs who are prepared to give them a chance.
The midfield is the engine room of any team but right now the cylinders are totally miss-firing or just not working at all. Why ? Well that's Bielsa's job but he needs to find the solution and fast !

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Sums it up for me.

We seem stale, bit predictable, easy to counter even?

How do you change that?

You either change style/tactics or change pplayers

[Overman]

Looking like relegation fodder at the moment. I didn't expect anything from this game, defensively imcompetent, no quailty in the middle park and blunt upfront. MB and co need to sort this asap. A poor transfer window on top of a small squad is costing us.

[Cjay]

Everyone is dancing round it so just to ask the question. How does everyone think we would get on if Bielsa left or was fired. Would a different manager playing different tactics, maybe utilising the whole squad including youngsters get better results from these players? Bielsa himself seems to blame himself after every result yet dosnt seem to change all that much in the next game - so maybe he has run out of ideas and dosnt want to replace the players he has relied upon for 3 years.

Personally I think he is still the best chance we have of surviving but I do wonder if he is the man to take us further.

This squad would not survive.

It hasnt the depth, it hasnt the quality in individual positions.

Its biggest strength is its fitness and its robotic coaching, its had certain movements and whatnot drilled into it.

MB despite his faults is our biggest hope.

However the ceiling for this squad has been reached, MB would be naive to think he can take it further and i imagine deep down he probably knows that.

And i very much doubt he will have the desire to make the necessary changes. He clearly has a real sense of loyalty to this group (hence why Forshaw is here, Roberts is here, Cooper and co are guaranteed to start) MB clearly feels a great sense of loyalty (understandably) and i cant see him having the nerve or heart to jettison the majority of the core group which if we survive would be entirely necessary next summer.

A rebuild would be needed next summer and i doubt very much Bielsa would have the desire to do that so i expect that this is his last season.

[SG90]

Sums it up for me.

We seem stale, bit predictable, easy to counter even?

How do you change that?

You either change style/tactics or change pplayers

That's why we should give the likes of Summerville and Gelhardt a chance. They're fearless and unpredictable. You can't say they'd be any worse than what we've seen so far.

Also dare I say it, but we should have kept Pablo.

[Bongo1874]

We won't be putting 5 past you next week bongo .More like conceding 5 .

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I'll guarantee right now you will beat us on Friday.

[SG90]

This squad would not survive.

It hasnt the depth, it hasnt the quality in individual positions.

Its biggest strength is its fitness and its robotic coaching, its had certain movements and whatnot drilled into it.

MB despite his faults is our biggest hope.

However the ceiling for this squad has been reached, MB would be naive to think he can take it further and i imagine deep down he probably knows that.

And i very much doubt he will have the desire to make the necessary changes. He clearly has a real sense of loyalty to this group (hence why Forshaw is here, Roberts is here, Cooper and co are guaranteed to start) MB clearly feels a great sense of loyalty (understandably) and i cant see him having the nerve or heart to jettison the majority of the core group which if we survive would be entirely necessary next summer.

A rebuild would be needed next summer and i doubt very much Bielsa would have the desire to do that so i expect that this is his last season.

The thing is, if we stayed up and MB signed on again, we'd still be selecting the likes of Cooper, Ayling, Roberts, Klich and Dallas next season, rather than freshening it up. You have to know when it's time to move on. Wenger stayed on too long at Arsenal, Fergie got out at the right time. As painful as it would be, I think we need to look afield next summer.