Norwich City V Leeds Utd - Match Thread - Post Match Debate

[Kennyb41]

Meslier was beaten at the near post twice today: maybe something the gk coaches need to pick up on...

Perhaps so, some you just can't stop though, and i'd say more of a job for the defenders to defend better, once a head gets on one of those whipped in crosses like that, i think it travels that fast, it has to be straight in the path of the keeper and a split second reflex save to stand a chance.

I'm with you though, i'm never comfortable with Les Mes at corners etc and just wish he'd get in the gym for some upper body and shoulder work, he'd feel a lot more confident in himself as well if he put on some muscle.

[AcrossThePondAsh]

DF doesn't strike me as a bulls**tter--if this is true, then good on him for pulling the trigger to shake things up AND the squad for making it happen on the pitch:

Source: https://twitter.com/PhilHay_/status/171 ... gr%5Etweet

[malcolmw]

Rutter, Summerville, and Struijk were all a joy to watch today.

While I think Summerville was MOTM, I had the most fun watching Rutter. He was a man among boys. When he got the ball in the midfield, it was beautiful the way he created space for himself in which to operate. His passing was brilliant. He's too big and strong for smaller players, too fast for bigger players, and has incredible vision. Beginning to think thirty-six million might have been a bargain.

Good description of Georgie there John.

[malcolmw]

Respectfully disagree.

His subs worked today and he deserves credit for that.

But I don't consider his job fantastic.

Adequate maybe

But am pleased we are stringing wins together, it was necessary

What has Farke not done that he should've and done that he shouldn't, in your eyes?

[Rook]

Just got back home from today's game,and a few alcoholic beverages.

Football. This sport will be the death of me.......

[DDB220]

Perhaps so, some you just can't stop though, and i'd say more of a job for the defenders to defend better, once a head gets on one of those whipped in crosses like that, i think it travels that fast, it has to be straight in the path of the keeper and a split second reflex save to stand a chance.

I'm with you though, i'm never comfortable with Les Mes at corners etc and just wish he'd get in the gym for some upper body and shoulder work, he'd feel a lot more confident in himself as well if he put on some muscle.

He will fill out eventually - he has a very similar stature to my oldest who is always down the gym and drinking protein shakes and eating me out of house and home. More bulk less agility - but I know what you are indicating.
Personally I think he can be a bit flat footed at times, which can affect reaction times.

I see a lot of comments over recent weeks about catching the ball more often, all goalkeepers these days tend to punch more as the balls are lighter and prone to more movement when they are whipped in. It is in these moments when he is trying to get a good contact that he could do with having more strength so that he isn’t as easily unbalanced and can generate more power and momentum when leaping to make contact. But he is steadily improving in this area.
Goalies do not get the protection they once had either, it is effectively a pushing match in the 6 yard box these days at set pieces.

[Cjay]

What has Farke not done that he should've and done that he shouldn't, in your eyes?

I think he has used his bench very poorly in the past but did well today.

I think his setup away from home has often been questionable. Our shots against conceded literally doubles, our shots for also drops from 2nd highest to 7th.

Our possession drops from a 62% home average to only just over 50% away (was below 50 before today).

We concede more than twice as many goals away from home which given we clearly concede possession more thus concede more chances is a clear correlation.

Why does he adopt this different setup away from home? I don't know.

He didn't at Norwich, the possession stats home and away both seasons was practically identical.

So this is clearly a conscious decision on his part.

Maybe it's to try and concede fewer chances? It doesn't work.

Maybe its because he had developed a reputation for his teams being defensively iffy so be a bit more Conservative away from home.

Only he can answer that but it hasn't worked for us.

The passive more sit back setup away from home has caused us problems, even first half today.

So that would be my main gripe as that to me is clear tactical plan and that is on Farke.

It's noticeable Maresca and McKenna don't have this wildly different approach home and away, Leicester still average well over 50% possession and largely control games and Ipswich only differ a few percent so the tactics for both of them are familiar and normal.

Indeed Fulham, Burnley, us under Bielsa, Farke himself at Norwich. None of the recent league title winners had the difference in style away vs home that we seem to be using and I really don't understand it.

I get changing the setup in the Premier League against largely better squads, in this league with ours? No I don't.

I'll probably be accused of negativity for this but I think questioning tactical choices is fair right? And you did ask.

But am I happy with the win today, yes of course and I give Farke credit for the subs

[malcolmw]

I think he has used his bench very poorly in the past but did well today.

I think his setup away from home has often been questionable. Our shots against conceded literally doubles, our shots for also drops from 2nd highest to 7th.

Our possession drops from a 62% home average to only just over 50% away (was below 50 before today).

We concede more than twice as many goals away from home which given we clearly concede possession more thus concede more chances is a clear correlation.

Why does he adopt this different setup away from home? I don't know.

He didn't at Norwich, the possession stats home and away both seasons was practically identical.

So this is clearly a conscious decision on his part.

Maybe it's to try and concede fewer chances? It doesn't work.

Maybe its because he had developed a reputation for his teams being defensively iffy so be a bit more Conservative away from home.

Only he can answer that but it hasn't worked for us.

The passive more sit back setup away from home has caused us problems, even first half today.

So that would be my main gripe as that to me is clear tactical plan and that is on Farke.

It's noticeable Maresca and McKenna don't have this wildly different approach home and away, Leicester still average well over 50% possession and largely control games and Ipswich only differ a few percent so the tactics for both of them are familiar and normal.

Indeed Fulham, Burnley, us under Bielsa, Farke himself at Norwich. None of the recent league title winners had the difference in style away vs home that we seem to be using and I really don't understand it.

I get changing the setup in the Premier League against largely better squads, in this league with ours? No I don't.

I'll probably be accused of negativity for this but I think questioning tactical choices is fair right? And you did ask.

But am I happy with the win today, yes of course and I give Farke credit for the subs

Yes I did ask - as I was curious.

If I look at the stats between ourselves, Leicester and Ipswich, the differences aren't massive. Leicester do have some impressive stats and no doubt they got off to a flyer right from day 1. I wonder though if I took our stats since the first international break how much better they will look.

Unlike both those managers, I still say Farke had to deal with incredible uncertainty and a very volatile situation during pre-season and the first few games - not to mention a full change of ownership. I know you think we overplay that - I for one think it was a huge factor in August and early Sept. The way this squad has settled in as little as 6 weeks is - to me - remarkable. I give most of the credit for that to Farke.
Leicester had nowhere near this level of disruption..

He has also turned a number of our players around - after the impact of the atrocious, amateurish coaching of Marsh and then caretakers - which make no mistake, left ripples throughout the season. Struijk is a new player - better than we ever saw him. James, Meslier, even Summerville and Gnonto are much improved and more focused. Then there's Georgie - we were all screaming for his exit as little as 2 months ago - now .... the superlatives keep coming. I give that credit for all that to Farke

Also, Its hard to use your bench well when you don't have a stable squad. We are finally starting to see that stability. I have no doubt the system will get more stable.

Ipswich - well we beat them 4-3 (and could've been 6 -3 ) at their homeground "fortress". Good team, but they won't end the season in second place.

The away set-up thing you talk about is odd, I admit - but let's see where things go.

I think to say his performance this season so far has been 'mediocre' is not accurate.You and I can just agree to disagree on that. I give him 8/10 - given all the above.

If I look at the big picture, I am extremely happy with our manager and where he brought us. I wouldn't swop him and frankly think all fans need to get behind him. Criticism is fine and can be healthy (no I don't think you're being negative). But we also have to be behind our squad fairly and squarely and not be fickle. This is a long journey. Lets not repeat the error we made with Bielsa.

[Kennyb41]

I think he has used his bench very poorly in the past but did well today.

I think his setup away from home has often been questionable. Our shots against conceded literally doubles, our shots for also drops from 2nd highest to 7th.

Our possession drops from a 62% home average to only just over 50% away (was below 50 before today).

We concede more than twice as many goals away from home which given we clearly concede possession more thus concede more chances is a clear correlation.

Why does he adopt this different setup away from home? I don't know.

He didn't at Norwich, the possession stats home and away both seasons was practically identical.

So this is clearly a conscious decision on his part.

Maybe it's to try and concede fewer chances? It doesn't work.

Maybe its because he had developed a reputation for his teams being defensively iffy so be a bit more Conservative away from home.

Only he can answer that but it hasn't worked for us.

The passive more sit back setup away from home has caused us problems, even first half today.

So that would be my main gripe as that to me is clear tactical plan and that is on Farke.

It's noticeable Maresca and McKenna don't have this wildly different approach home and away, Leicester still average well over 50% possession and largely control games and Ipswich only differ a few percent so the tactics for both of them are familiar and normal.

Indeed Fulham, Burnley, us under Bielsa, Farke himself at Norwich. None of the recent league title winners had the difference in style away vs home that we seem to be using and I really don't understand it.

I get changing the setup in the Premier League against largely better squads, in this league with ours? No I don't.

I'll probably be accused of negativity for this but I think questioning tactical choices is fair right? And you did ask.

But am I happy with the win today, yes of course and I give Farke credit for the subs

Jeez you talk some *****

If at all possible, go through every single teams % and performances away from home compared to their Home statistics bollocks, please go back as far as you can to the formation of the FA around the 1870's

I think you'll find that EVERY single team in the world fares better at home than away, thus when Leeds play AWAY, some fcker is at HOME, and have the lift that HOME advantage gives ALL.

[Kennyb41]

Jimmys 3rd goal winner : What a sublime header from PB to Rutter to set us the sublime pass from him to Jimmy.

[1964white]

We've scored 11 goals in our six away games.

In three of those games we've netted 3+ goals.

There are excuses in our other three matches:

Birmingham
The week prior to the game, Sinisterra & Gnonto refused to play.
Rutter (67m) & (Rodon 92m) coming on as subs.
James, Poveda & Gelhardt as our front three.
Ayling still playing RB.

Hull
We would have mauled the tigers in the second-half, had the ref not handed out the first yellow card to Rodon for a non-foul.

Southampton
Rodon missing at the back, didn't help our cause.

I reckon we have done marvellously well to be 3rd in the championship after all the upheavals we have endured during the build-up to the season

[1964white]

Last season in our first six aways

7 goals scored
13 goals conceded

[DDB220]

I think he has used his bench very poorly in the past but did well today.

I think his setup away from home has often been questionable. Our shots against conceded literally doubles, our shots for also drops from 2nd highest to 7th.

Our possession drops from a 62% home average to only just over 50% away (was below 50 before today).

We concede more than twice as many goals away from home which given we clearly concede possession more thus concede more chances is a clear correlation.

Why does he adopt this different setup away from home? I don't know.

He didn't at Norwich, the possession stats home and away both seasons was practically identical.

So this is clearly a conscious decision on his part.

Maybe it's to try and concede fewer chances? It doesn't work.

Maybe its because he had developed a reputation for his teams being defensively iffy so be a bit more Conservative away from home.

Only he can answer that but it hasn't worked for us.

The passive more sit back setup away from home has caused us problems, even first half today.

So that would be my main gripe as that to me is clear tactical plan and that is on Farke.

It's noticeable Maresca and McKenna don't have this wildly different approach home and away, Leicester still average well over 50% possession and largely control games and Ipswich only differ a few percent so the tactics for both of them are familiar and normal.

Indeed Fulham, Burnley, us under Bielsa, Farke himself at Norwich. None of the recent league title winners had the difference in style away vs home that we seem to be using and I really don't understand it.

I get changing the setup in the Premier League against largely better squads, in this league with ours? No I don't.

I'll probably be accused of negativity for this but I think questioning tactical choices is fair right? And you did ask.

But am I happy with the win today, yes of course and I give Farke credit for the subs

I don’t think we were sitting back or passive against Norwich - in fact quite the reverse. The front four were closing down and trying to prevent Norwich playing out from the back. Arguably because we were so aggressive in the press when they did break out they caused us a few problems. In the first half they were winning most of the tackles and 50/50’s because we were not compact. He tweaked this in the 2nd half and we pretty much controlled the game.

I think your pursuit of perfection is a pointless task.

When Bielsa was in charge you often raised the issue of there is no point playing well if you do not get the 3 points. Well we are doing both now and still you want more. Not sure how you derive any enjoyment out of the game CJAY.

[SG90]

Last season in our first six aways

7 goals scored
13 goals conceded

Premiership v Championship

I worry the gap has grown ever bigger should we return As strong as Leicester are now, that same side would be comfortably relegated.

[DDB220]

Im not happy playing him there. He was ineffective and imo contributed to our defensive woes and theirsecond goal.

Rodon and Ampadu struggled because of trying to help him out.

He linked up with James zero times going forward

I want him in midfield where I believe he will learn more and become a key player for us.

Personally, I think he was exposed by James, who can be very inconsistent helping out defensively, he can be brushed off the ball far too easily at times and has that habit of going to ground far too often unnecessarily . If Archie has Gnonto ahead of him I believe he will be more assured.

As Spence is on his way back to fitness Archie’s flirtation with the RB position is only going to be on a needs must basis. I will be surprised if James plays ahead of Spence. When he is fit we may change to a 352 on occasion.

[1964white]

Premiership v Championship

I worry the gap has grown ever bigger should we return As strong as Leicester are now, that same side would be comfortably relegated.

I expect better recruitment when we reach the Premier League next time.

Also, our current young squad of players will be more ready for the challenge in the PL after a year in the championship.

And we have a decent coach at the helm than the idiots in charge last season.

[Aussieleeds]

Well this must've been one of the best if you didn't know the result.

Hey Kenny, have to admit I peeked at the score and the fact we’d been 2-0 down. At that point I knew the thread would be fantastic!!!

[SG90]

I expect better recruitment when we reach the Premier League next time.

Also, our current young squad of players will be more ready for the challenge in the PL after a year in the championship.

And we have a decent coach at the helm than the idiots in charge last season.

The 49ers would surely have more ambition than dumb and dumber, but Farke wouldn't be answer if we would want to be a long term PL club. But anyway,we have to get there first, and he is fine for a promotion chasing club.

[DDB220]

The 49ers would surely have more ambition than dumb and dumber, but Farke wouldn't be answer if we would want to be a long term PL club. But anyway,we have to get there first, and he is fine for a promotion chasing club.

We will have to wait and see how DF fairs in the EPL if we go up. He lost his best players when Norwich were promoted and they operated on minimum expenditure. If we add the right level of quality then he has the necessary tools to then judge him.

[Kennyb41]

Hey Kenny, have to admit I peeked at the score and the fact we’d been 2-0 down. At that point I knew the thread would be fantastic!!!

There wasn't a lot in it and no reason we shouldn't have had 2 ourselves in the first half, in fact we had the better play of it in that first half and it was by no means panic stations and for some (one) to be calling for DF's head or a complete overhaul of the team at half/time was ludicrous.

Our play is creating chances, Norwich were bound to create their own coz they never even had a thought of parking the bus, it was a good open game of football, we are not Barcelona and Norwich weren't Citeh, but we went with the intention of winning the game and so did they, their fans went home gutted and i bet Heidi had a fantastic journey home.

He still needs players and he knows it, 1 more decentish window (2 signings hopefully January) and it might just be good enough to go up, then re-assess.