What is the point in persevering with Victor Orta?

For everything Leeds United related and everything not - Have your say... the Marching on Together way!
Forum rules
Please be sure you are acquainted with the forum rules outlined within our FAQs.

Help support the site by using our Amazon Affiliate link when making any purchases from Amazon.
User avatar
weasel
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 14274
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 10:28 pm
Location: Within a mile of Yorkshire

Re: What is the point in persevering with Victor Orta?

Post by weasel »

Cjay wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 1:54 pm Apparently sees it as a hobby and has no intention of ever buying the club.

The Lowy family are allegedly famously tight in business Apparently.

Very much not into taking massive risks.

Won't ever happen.
Exactly right. Why would he want to buy a club and have fans wanting to spend £100m+ of his own money every season on signings?

It's amazing how many non-millionaire fans want someone rich to pumps millions of their money into the club, cos of course that is what all successful business models are based upon, not making the owner rich but them losing millions.
SG90
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 16381
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:29 pm

Re: What is the point in persevering with Victor Orta?

Post by SG90 »

weasel wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 2:02 pm Exactly right. Why would he want to buy a club and have fans wanting to spend £100m+ of his own money every season on signings?

It's amazing how many non-millionaire fans want someone rich to pumps millions of their money into the club, cos of course that is what all successful business models are based upon, not making the owner rich but them losing millions.
I doubt anyone wants that, certainly not seen anyone on here suggesting that anyway. What we need is an owner who will allow us to progress by keeping our best players at the club, and investing a bit of money into the club each season.

Leeds have the potential to be self sufficient at this level, but we need a bit of funding until we get to 10 years in the PL imo.

You have to remember we're competing with clubs who are being funded beyond their means by wealthy owners, which makes it harder for clubs like us to remain in the PL. And I'm not just talking about Man Citeh, Chelski, Newcastle etc but Fulham, Villa, Everton, Palace, Brighton, Southampton, Forest etc.
User avatar
Kennyb41
Site Contributor
Site Contributor
Posts: 11158
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:15 am

Re: What is the point in persevering with Victor Orta?

Post by Kennyb41 »

Anyway, does anyone want to attempt explaining what made Orta sign these LB's ?

De Bock
Douglas
Firpo
Borthwick

Can anybody tell me his reasoning or can anybody see in them what i can't.

Do they alone not show up his uselessness ?
Not dependent on Google, the www or 'stats' - Just a guy that puts his eyes to full use on the beautiful game :geek:

;@)
Overman
Manager
Manager
Posts: 2961
Joined: Wed May 15, 2019 11:04 pm

Re: What is the point in persevering with Victor Orta?

Post by Overman »

Time for Ken Bates to chance his arm and his little gimp Krasner.
User avatar
weasel
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 14274
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 10:28 pm
Location: Within a mile of Yorkshire

Re: What is the point in persevering with Victor Orta?

Post by weasel »

SG90 wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 2:15 pm I doubt anyone wants that, certainly not seen anyone on here suggesting that anyway. What we need is an owner who will allow us to progress by keeping our best players at the club, and investing a bit of money into the club each season.

Leeds have the potential to be self sufficient at this level, but we need a bit of funding until we get to 10 years in the PL imo.

You have to remember we're competing with clubs who are being funded beyond their means by wealthy owners, which makes it harder for clubs like us to remain in the PL. And I'm not just talking about Man Citeh, Chelski, Newcastle etc but Fulham, Villa, Everton, Palace, Brighton, Southampton, Forest etc.
But that is pumping their own money in and essentially operating at a loss, not a good business model. If we were to try and keep Raphinha and KP as example then instead of paying then say £50k each we're probably looking at £250k each per week - so there's an extra £20m per year. We decide to make those couple of extra signings at say £30m each so there's £80m extra per year already, wonder what wages these 2 new super signings want, guessing there's another £20m. So there's £100m extra and it guarantees what?

Any business that is being run well has to have a plan and a budget. That budget has to plan for the worst case scenario, i.e. relegation. So you have to spend accordingly because you could easily spend that extra £100m and get relegated, or spend £100m and just stand still, so what another £100m loss the next year and the next etc?
SG90
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 16381
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:29 pm

Re: What is the point in persevering with Victor Orta?

Post by SG90 »

weasel wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 3:01 pm But that is pumping their own money in and essentially operating at a loss, not a good business model. If we were to try and keep Raphinha and KP as example then instead of paying then say £50k each we're probably looking at £250k each per week - so there's an extra £20m per year. We decide to make those couple of extra signings at say £30m each so there's £80m extra per year already, wonder what wages these 2 new super signings want, guessing there's another £20m. So there's £100m extra and it guarantees what?

Any business that is being run well has to have a plan and a budget. That budget has to plan for the worst case scenario, i.e. relegation. So you have to spend accordingly because you could easily spend that extra £100m and get relegated, or spend £100m and just stand still, so what another £100m loss the next year and the next etc?
£250k a week :lol:

If we put in say £30m next summer and it helped us to keep hold off Sinisterra and Aaronson, then that's a good thing. Why would we need to offer them new contracts when they're already under contract?

Constantly selling your best players will result in relegation, as Radz' dream club will find out this season.
Broad Ford
Subs Bench
Subs Bench
Posts: 640
Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:17 am
Location: West Yorkshire

Re: What is the point in persevering with Victor Orta?

Post by Broad Ford »

Kennyb41 wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 2:25 pm Anyway, does anyone want to attempt explaining what made Orta sign these LB's ?

De Bock
Douglas
Firpo
Borthwick

Can anybody tell me his reasoning or can anybody see in them what i can't.

Do they alone not show up his uselessness ?
A low cost gamble at developing a cheaper option than a big money signing, as per Radz' businesses model. Orta does the scouting and delivers these duds that don't make it along with gems that become fans favs, or at least until the bigger clubs offer them increased salaries.

Until new owners take over from Radz with a new businesses model of lathering players with cash it would seem that ER is in a developmental stasis regarding the club taking it's place amongst the Champions League regulars. For the moment PL survival and the odd good cup run is all the hoards can hope for.
If you don't know where you are going, every road will get you nowhere.
User avatar
Kennyb41
Site Contributor
Site Contributor
Posts: 11158
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:15 am

Re: What is the point in persevering with Victor Orta?

Post by Kennyb41 »

Ahh, so Orta gambles on players, surely there's better ways.

Explains a lot.
Not dependent on Google, the www or 'stats' - Just a guy that puts his eyes to full use on the beautiful game :geek:

;@)
User avatar
Kennyb41
Site Contributor
Site Contributor
Posts: 11158
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:15 am

Re: What is the point in persevering with Victor Orta?

Post by Kennyb41 »

Are there any geeks here that can tell me how successful Orta was before Bert arrived at Leeds?
Not dependent on Google, the www or 'stats' - Just a guy that puts his eyes to full use on the beautiful game :geek:

;@)
User avatar
Irish Ian
Site Contributor
Site Contributor
Posts: 13367
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:53 pm
Location: Directly above the centre of the Earth.

Re: What is the point in persevering with Victor Orta?

Post by Irish Ian »

Kennyb41 wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 3:35 pm Ahh, so Orta gambles on players, surely there's better ways.

Explains a lot.
Every transfer is a gamble. Some you win, most you lose.

For all the flak he takes on here Orta is quite well respected by players, managers and agents.

I am neutral towards him by the way.
'
"Football is about the people and the players,” he said. “Then there are those who will mingle in the middle: the coaches, executives and journalists. That last group represents the worst part about football" Marcelo Bielsa
Overman
Manager
Manager
Posts: 2961
Joined: Wed May 15, 2019 11:04 pm

Re: What is the point in persevering with Victor Orta?

Post by Overman »

Irish Ian wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 3:36 pm Every transfer is a gamble. Some you win, most you lose.

For all the flak he takes on here Orta is quite well respected by players, managers and agents.

I am neutral towards him by the way.
He wasn't that well respected by the players and fans at Middlesborough.
User avatar
andrewjohnsmith
Site Contributor
Site Contributor
Posts: 8094
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:58 pm
Location: California (Donny Born-n-Bred)

Re: What is the point in persevering with Victor Orta?

Post by andrewjohnsmith »

Overman wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 3:43 pm He wasn't that well respected by the players and fans at Middlesborough.
I think Irish Ian was saying he's respected by the players at Leeds

Who cares how Middlesbro felt about him. ALAW
Overman
Manager
Manager
Posts: 2961
Joined: Wed May 15, 2019 11:04 pm

Re: What is the point in persevering with Victor Orta?

Post by Overman »

andrewjohnsmith wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 4:02 pm I think Irish Ian was saying he's respected by the players at Leeds

Who cares how Middlesbro felt about him. ALAW
It's lovely he's respected by the players, seeing he's brought most of them in. The agents must love him.
User avatar
Kennyb41
Site Contributor
Site Contributor
Posts: 11158
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:15 am

Re: What is the point in persevering with Victor Orta?

Post by Kennyb41 »

Can someone please prove to me (Andrew, Ian) how Orta is respected by the players, how the fck do they know this, are they gonna say something bad about him out loud ?

Fck knows how much wages he gets each and everyone of them, most probably couldn't believe their luck when he came calling with wads of cash.

Wages for DE Bock at Leeds ? And before and now ?
wages for Douglas " " " "
Wages For Firpo " " " "
Wages for Costa " " " " "

Etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc

I bet Firpo just couldn't believe his luck....." What ! The premier league !...How much a week !!! ??? ...where do i sign ?"

"Kinhell, i was on the scrapheap last week!"
Not dependent on Google, the www or 'stats' - Just a guy that puts his eyes to full use on the beautiful game :geek:

;@)
User avatar
Kennyb41
Site Contributor
Site Contributor
Posts: 11158
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:15 am

Re: What is the point in persevering with Victor Orta?

Post by Kennyb41 »

Costa : " Oh thank fck you came through the door Vic, Wolves told me they were getting rid of me off their books and i thought my career was over "

Clown : " Don't worry we'll come to some arrangement how you can pay me back"
Not dependent on Google, the www or 'stats' - Just a guy that puts his eyes to full use on the beautiful game :geek:

;@)
Cjay
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 28848
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:01 pm

Re: What is the point in persevering with Victor Orta?

Post by Cjay »

Don't know where else to put this but some of our fans seem to have talked themselves into a dream takeover scenario :)

Allegedly.

A consortium of wealthy people from the Oceania region will save us.

These people include.

Peter/Frank Lowy (mainly Peter given Frank is in his 90s)- £6billion net worth.

Russell Crowe (are you not entertained).

James Packer- £3billion net worth.

Mike Cannon-Brookes- £12.5billion net worth.

That's alright then :love:
Signed

King Cjay

Fountain of all knowledge and wisdom
VinnysTattoo
Subs Bench
Subs Bench
Posts: 918
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:55 pm

Re: What is the point in persevering with Victor Orta?

Post by VinnysTattoo »

We can dream Cjay
User avatar
weasel
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 14274
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 10:28 pm
Location: Within a mile of Yorkshire

Re: What is the point in persevering with Victor Orta?

Post by weasel »

Cjay wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 9:05 am Don't know where else to put this but some of our fans seem to have talked themselves into a dream takeover scenario :)

Allegedly.

A consortium of wealthy people from the Oceania region will save us.

These people include.

Peter/Frank Lowy (mainly Peter given Frank is in his 90s)- £6billion net worth.

Russell Crowe (are you not entertained).

James Packer- £3billion net worth.

Mike Cannon-Brookes- £12.5billion net worth.

That's alright then :love:
You missed me out from the list Cjay. I have at least a couple of quid to invest too.
SG90
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 16381
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:29 pm

Re: What is the point in persevering with Victor Orta?

Post by SG90 »

weasel wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 10:58 am You missed me out from the list Cjay. I have at least a couple of quid to invest too.
Perhaps we could all clobber together for a Motforum takeover? :duno: One of yous is bound to be a secret millionaire! :)
SG90
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 16381
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:29 pm

Re: What is the point in persevering with Victor Orta?

Post by SG90 »

Cjay wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 9:05 am Don't know where else to put this but some of our fans seem to have talked themselves into a dream takeover scenario :)

Allegedly.

A consortium of wealthy people from the Oceania region will save us.

These people include.

Peter/Frank Lowy (mainly Peter given Frank is in his 90s)- £6billion net worth.

Russell Crowe (are you not entertained).

James Packer- £3billion net worth.

Mike Cannon-Brookes- £12.5billion net worth.

That's alright then :love:
Just looked MCB and see he created Atlassian. Blimey, 42-years-old and worth £12.5bn! :shock:

Come on Mike, you know football and tech go well. :)
Post Reply