Pet projects

[Cjay]

And Bielsa.

Some people get annoyed at the term and some don't.

Genuinely interested to know what people think?

Is it a myth?

Is it true?

For those who Genuinely feel he doesn't have them, what makes you say that?

For those who do think he does, what makes you say that?

For those who say it isn't true how do you explain Bielsa's constant use of certain players in general or in terms of specific roles that haven't ever worked? Such as Rodrigo in midfield?

For those who say it is true do you feel it is to the detriment of the team and how is it different from a manager just having a preferred player which is quite normal?

My views are well known but thought it would be a decent discussion topic.

What I will say in this post is the pet project term isn't exclusive to MOT posters in relation to Bielsa and has been used by journalists for years and years.

[The Subhuman]

It's a complete myth

[DDB220]

There is no doubt that a significant percentage of Leeds fans are now questioning a lot of Bielsa’s tactics and team selections. What he is doing now is not really that much different to what he has always done. He is just missing certain personnel.
But because results have taken a down turn people are paying more attention and questioning Bielsa’s tactics more and more.

I have been scratching my head for most games this season with regards to the line up chosen in the absence of key players who would otherwise fill those positions.

There have been questions concerning the selections in the absence of KP and at CB, but the biggest bone of contention this season has been the 9 and 10 role. In most scenario’s with a fully fit squad - Bamford would occupy 9 and Rodrigo ten ( in the absence of the new signing that was desperately needed )

I believe Bielsa subscribes to the ethos that you always start with the best players available. However, he has questionably taken this to an extreme, whereby positional ability appears to many and I include myself in this, to be a secondary issue.

My perspective is that he certainly does not follow the Occam’s razor theory. But he is renowned for his individualistic approach by his peers, therefore I certainly do not feel remotely qualified to dissect his theories of play.

But as this is an opinion based question my view is his obsession with ‘unbalancing the opponent’ it is a term he is fond of using. Does not seemingly equate with the good old fashioned perspective of putting someone in attack who can actually be relied upon to score, in the absence of his first choice. Pace, closing down and putting in the graft are very admirable traits - but to win you need someone who can be relied upon to finish.
Whilst we are not blessed with abundant options there is for me and many others an obvious choice who has provided enough evidence of the ability to create and score goals more often than not. However, Bielsa is consistently using players who are currently the complete opposite.
Therefore whilst we create a lot of dangerous situations, they often involve players with a very unreliable or relatively infrequent end product. Whether that is the killer ball or finishing aspect.

In conclusion for me the balance of using players who can meet his requirements in terms of playing style and the ability to score a goal is just not right. Although as fans we are often guilty of not giving an opponent their dues when it comes to defending stoically, we just tend to blame our player for missing what we believe was a chance that should have been put away.
I am on the side of the fence that believes if chances are being created more often than not we will more often than not reap the rewards. On balance I think the chances aspect is happening we are just not reaping the rewards often enough and player selection for me is key reason.

[DDB220]

On the Pet project issue. I do not agree with this - I am more inclined towards stubbornness based upon complete self belief.

[weasel]

Pet projects seems to be a term used to have a go at Bielsa.

The way I see it is that Bielsa sees players differently and how they can fit better into his system. Sometimes it takes players a short time to be able to adapt such as Kalvin Phillips but his change of position wasn't as dramatic just a case of adding a bit more understanding of the defensive side of theings so Bielsa played him at centreback a few times. KP wasn't a centreback and Bielsa was not looking to turn him into a centreback but it was part of the education with that 'pet project.'

Other players such as Dallas it took a lot longer. A shorter time to adapt from winger to wingback as the position isn't too different given that Bielsa prioritises the attacking side of things from the full back. A longer time to convert him to a central midfielder with lots of posters on here saying Dallas was never going to be a centrl midfielder.

Bielsa is also doing the same with Struyjk and Koch, teaching them how to also play the defensive midfield role so that they can play there if needed but also that they are more aware of where to pass the ball if they bring it out of defence and find themselves in the defensive midfielder area of the pitch. Again fans seem to think that if a player isn't suddenly brilliant in the new role that they can't play it. Many fans saying Struyjk couldn't play there after just 1 or 2 appearances. However the more he plays there the better he starts to look as it becomes more natural. That's what learning is all about.

Okay Rodrigo hasn't set the world on fire yet in a different position but that is more down to injury and him not being able to get a decent run of games in the position. Same with James and Roberts Bielsa is increasing their knowledge and making them better players but it doesn't just happen overnight.

So to some degree it can be detrimental to the team in the immediate short term but it will be of huge benefit to the team in the long run. A team of players that can each switch seamlessly through 2 or 3 positions when we have possession would rip other teams apart as no one would know who to mark.

[mentalcase]

There is one PP for me, roberts, well documented by all, but that name in the line up gives me nothing but the shivers, Bielsa only picks him because he won't be proved wrong, except he is wrong, and it's costing us.
Rodrigo, James and Harrison, have all got potential, they understand the switching of positions, as frustrating as they are, they have the ability to make it.
The CB's like Struijk, Koch, Llorente, Hjelde Cresswell , all have a future, Firpo needs time.
I take my hat off to Bielsa for the transformation of Phillips, who simply wouldn't cut it otherwise, same with Bamford.

[Mrs64]

I thought this was a topic about cats

[DDB220]

I understand the Potential advantage of having players who can play a number of different positions and what that offers tactically. But I question the wisdom of trying to achieve this mid season with some players whose apparent adaptability is questionable. I base that upon the lack of evidence to suggest it is working. This is a results based business and ultimately that is the threshold test for success.
I can understand the kids getting schooled, but not a first team regular.
James is not and never will be a 9 in my opinion.

[DDB220]

Nor can he fill that void.

[White Riot]

More like Pet Cemetary

[1964white]

I understand the Potential advantage of having players who can play a number of different positions and what that offers tactically. But I question the wisdom of trying to achieve this mid season with some players whose apparent adaptability is questionable. I base that upon the lack of evidence to suggest it is working. This is a results based business and ultimately that is the threshold test for success.
I can understand the kids getting schooled, but not a first team regular.
James is not and never will be a 9 in my opinion.

We've lost matches by playing players out of position (only won 5 this season), however as Weasel posted we should hopefully benefit in the long term.

[DDB220]

We've lost matches by playing players out of position (only won 5 this season), however as Weasel posted we should hopefully benefit in the long term.

What do you consider long term ?
The benefits will only be the case if Bielsa stays or his replacement has a similar doctrine. Otherwise you are left with a “what was the point” scenario. Most premiership managers do not have the luxury of job stability and autonomy that Bielsa has. Will his replacement have the same understanding if we are flirting with the relegation places ?

[YorkshireSquare]

I think he's only had one 'pet project', the one to turn Kalvin Phillips into a world class DM.

Worked out pretty well I think.

[whiteswan]

I thought this was a topic about cats

Or Basset houndies

[Finnatic]

Not really.
Roberts as CF is the nearest to one but I think MB now sees him as AM.
Maybe Roberts is slightly fitter atm than Gelhardt and that’s why he played there as a sub on Saturday.
Logically, I would have had Roberts on for Rodrigo and Gelhardt on for James but none of us know the reasons why that didn’t happen.
Rodrigo played quite well but a full game might have been beyond him.

The main problem for the last quarter was that when Newcastle scored, eight of their outfield players dropped back to the edge of their area and it became congested and because we play man to man, Rodrigo, Raphinha and Harrison went with them.
That meant that our back line moved up and it was they who were supplying the ball into the box.
Gelhardt tried to drop a bit deeper but to no avail.

[1964white]

What do you consider long term ?
The benefits will only be the case if Bielsa stays or his replacement has a similar doctrine. Otherwise you are left with a “what was the point” scenario. Most premiership managers do not have the luxury of job stability and autonomy that Bielsa has. Will his replacement have the same understanding if we are flirting with the relegation places ?

Perhaps a season down the line, however Bielsa would have to remain at ER next season, I'm sceptical whether he'll stay though.

No, I can't see another coach having the same understanding, DDB.

[1964white]

I think he's only had one 'pet project', the one to turn Kalvin Phillips into a world class DM.

Worked out pretty well I think.

And haven't we missed him?

[YorkshireSquare]

And haven't we missed him?

It's a key role in this system, without the right person in there it affects everything. I'd say the same about the striker too.

[1964white]

It's a key role in this system, without the right person in there it affects everything. I'd say the same about the striker too.

Had Paddy & Kalvin been available for much of the season. we'd be above Brighton in 9th position.

[VinnysTattoo]

Pet project ? I don’t think the term is appropriate.

However,the manager’s belief in certain individuals certainly would make some believe it is the case. He has successfully made most of the players much better as footballers but it does seem a certain player has not made that progression.
It almost seems to me that MB becomes stubborn when a player is not moving forward and in his mind has a determination to make it so.
MB has enough credit with owners to make sure he can still push on with his plan to make EVERYONE better. Another manager at another team, I believe, would have been shown the door already if they pursued this line of thought.

It almost seems a question of honour that he makes everyone a better player. I only hope this is not to the detriment of our league status.