weasel wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 10:22 pm
Perhaps the mods can move this post and mine into the Bielsa thread so we don't have another thread go off topic into Bielsa.
I find it strange that people keep throwing the small squad thing at Bielsa. Given that the board wasn't likely going to spend much more than they did the only way we were going to make the squad larger was to do what we did last season and sell the crown jewels to buy some turds to polish. Let's say the board said there was another £20m available to Bielsa, what does that buy 1 premier league class player , maybe 2 if we had a good Director of Football. So the idea that Bielsa prefered a smaller squad is seriously flawed as the only way he could get a larger squad was to dilute the strength of it. Sort of like having to supply wine to 100 guests but only having enough wine for 50 guests so you do a deal to swop some of the bottles of wine for a lot more bottles of water, mix the water with the wine and hope the guests don't notice as unfortunately even Bielsa can't turn water into wine forever.
In Bielsa's first season he had to sacrifice Vieira to just get a striker, Bamford in. There was no money and only a couple of players worth more than tuppence. Vieira and PJ. In the second season we had to sell PJ and Roofe just to stand still, the squad shrunk not because Bielsa wanted a smaller squad but because the club weren't giving him any money. People may say Bielsa fell out with PJ, and likely PJ didn't really fit his plans but again we were at a point where we were making the squad smaller just to pay the bills. Again how many of our players had any value, Roofe, PJ and KP likely the only 3 (considering Bamford had been injured all year). Bielsa given nothing to spend and only allowed a loan player in White that was probably incredibly cheap as he was a relatively unknown youngster and likely not on a huge wage.
So I do think the board was more than happy to suggest it was Bielsa who wanted a smaller squad rather than them getting flak for not putting more money in. Bielsa was always consistent in saying he wanted players who were better than what - and that to me does not tally with selling your best players so you can afford to pad out the squad.
This has been done to absolute death
But
Bielsa 11/12 Bilbao.
Players to play double figures in a season where Bilbao played over 60 matches- 18.
Bilbao 12/13
20 but only 15 played 20 or more games.
Marseille 14/15
18.
Was the squad size convenient for Radz? Yes.
Was Bielsa forced?
Absolutely not.
There is literally no argument about it, Bielsa loves a small squad, he's always used one.
Only downside for me is he will return next season. Pity the move was not permanant and we did not get some money back for him. Aaronson was a real disappointment for me, far too lightweight for English football.
weasel wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 9:52 am
Not at all Cussie, debate is what the forum is about and people have the right to their opinions.
I like to look at what facts are available to support a viewpoint and feel many people jump on a bandwagon, or take something that has been said and go with it. Bielsa did like small squads and having players like Dallas and Alioski who could play multiple posiitons and people latch on to that as suggesting Bielsa was turning down new signings to the detriment of the club whereas the likely reality is that he wasn't truning down new players because we weren't awash with money. Yes money could likely have been spent better, how much of that is Bielsa's fault it is hard to say as he wasn't in charge of the purse strings. The only first team player that we bought that Bielsa supposedly didn't want was Llorente. Bielsa likely was happy having Ayling and Berardi as back up for Koch and yes that would have left us short but for all we know Bielsa might have wanted the £18m we paid for Llorente to be used elsewhere but Orta saw the glamour of signing a Spanish international even though we'd signed Koch for the same position.
For evidence of our lack of money you just have to see the deals that we tried to do with Dan James, 1st season, when we basically tried to get him for no up front costs in a transfer that was too one sided that Swansea pulled out and we missed out on getting him, and then the debacle with JKA when we got shafted by agreeing to a transfer because we had no up front money. The only time we spent big money on players without selling first was in our first season in the premier league where we signed Rodrigo, Koch, Llorente and Raphinha and converted Messlier's loan into a permanent deal. We didn't even have enough money to also convert Harrison's loan deal to a permanent one so the idea that we could have enlarged the squad would appear non existent. We basicalyl jsut enlarged the squad by 3 players (4 sactual signings and Ben White leaving) and had no more money.
2nd season and we didn't really splash out much, we converted Harrison's deal into a permanent signing and bought Dan James and Firpo. There was no suggestion that there was any more money available and with Pablo, Alioski and Berardi leaving, as well as Costa on loan we once again had trimmed the squad - I don't feel that Bielsa went into that summer and said to the board we need to trim the squad, I'm sure Bielsa would have loved Alioski and Berardi to stay.
3rd season and with all the cries to make the squad bigger we sell our only 2 players of real value. We are so desperate to get the money in to enlarge the squad that we sell them for less than we should have got. So we hugely weakened our starting line-up but made the squad bigger and that really is the only way our club could significantly enlarge the squad. Unfortunately a lot of bad signings have weakened the strength of the team and now we see that the ludicrous contracts have further shafted us so that we will have little money coming in as players leave on loan everywhere and thus will have to sell a couple of players that might have been happy to stay just to try to pad the squad out to the numbers it was at previously.
Wow, not going to try & respond to that, well thought out, written & presented. As a newbie I’ve obviously missed all of the previous Bielsa debate & apologise for stoking the flames again, as I said, just answering a question. Now if I could just get down off this bandwagon I might get some work done.
WhiteRose wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 10:19 am
We need an alternate for godwins law on here - maybe Kenny’s law - the longer an MOT discussion grows regardless of topic or scope the probability of Bielsa being mentioned approaches 100%
No idea how i missed this
But a fookin great idea man, cheers sweet as.
Not dependent on Google, the www or 'stats' - Just a guy that puts his eyes to full use on the beautiful game
Cjay wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 4:30 pm
Stinking the place out in Germany so far apparently
Poor debut in a game where Union Berlin won 4-1 he had no shots and no creative passes.
2nd game, sent off inside 20 minutes
Except for the back heel flick that directly unlocked the defense and led to the first goal. He wasn't credited with a key pass or creative pass or whatever on that one. But if you actually watch the game, or even the highlights you would see it. But it's true after that he was mostly ineffective. Had the worst overall score of the field players.
Today was a nightmare. I think he's on thin ice....
BlackHillsPaul wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 5:05 pm
Except for the back heel flick that directly unlocked the defense and led to the first goal. He wasn't credited with a key pass or creative pass or whatever on that one. But if you actually watch the game, or even the highlights you would see it. But it's true after that he was mostly ineffective. Had the worst overall score of the field players.
Today was a nightmare. I think he's on thin ice....
I didn't watch the game true
I saw the sending off and went on the Union Berlin forum.
Putting him in the starting eleven is the same as starting with 10 men, he's a little girl who's afraid of a tackle , should've played in the world cup for the USA womens team but not a starter
Lufc76Cor wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 5:14 pm
Putting him in the starting eleven is the same as starting with 10 men, he's a little girl who's afraid of a tackle , should've played in the world cup for the USA womens team but not a starter
I take it your not a fan. Tbf neither am i. As you say he's not strong enough for English football. He needs to slow his game down and allow himself to think a little.
Leeds1000 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 5:18 pm
I take it your not a fan. Tbf neither am i. As you say he's not strong enough for English football. He needs to slow his game down and allow himself to think a little.
I had high hopes for him when he signed as had seen him play for the USA a few times and thought he was lively, but he was terrible for us falling over all the time and never actually offering anything going foward , I think his feet are too quick for his brain, sort that out and he'd definitely get in the womens team
BlackHillsPaul wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 5:05 pm
Except for the back heel flick that directly unlocked the defense and led to the first goal. He wasn't credited with a key pass or creative pass or whatever on that one. But if you actually watch the game, or even the highlights you would see it. But it's true after that he was mostly ineffective. Had the worst overall score of the field players.
Today was a nightmare. I think he's on thin ice....
Can they send him back?
"Never debate an idiot, they'll only drag you down to their level and they have the advantage of experience"
The Subhuman wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 5:26 pm
Can they send him back?
I don't know. But Union really like Brenden. And the club are circling the wagons around him right now. On the club's official twitter they have called out fans of other clubs "throwing s**t" at Aaronson. And have advised them to stick to their own sites. I can't imagine what fans they are talking about....
BlackHillsPaul wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 5:31 pm
I don't know. But Union really like Brenden. And the club are circling the wagons around him right now. On the club's official twitter they have called out fans of other clubs "throwing s**t" at Aaronson. And have advised them to stick to their own sites. I can't imagine what fans they are talking about....
He's still our player, we can slag him off if we want
BlackHillsPaul wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 5:31 pm
I don't know. But Union really like Brenden. And the club are circling the wagons around him right now. On the club's official twitter they have called out fans of other clubs "throwing s**t" at Aaronson. And have advised them to stick to their own sites. I can't imagine what fans they are talking about....
I can see a lot of talent, he has really quick feet and turns on a sixpence. Still trying to figure out what went wrong here which is clearly affecting his form now...
"Never debate an idiot, they'll only drag you down to their level and they have the advantage of experience"
As with all our loanees they will only be any use to the club if they have good seasons away and attract some interest, as methinks they have burned their bridges with us now
' "Football is about the people and the players,” he said. “Then there are those who will mingle in the middle: the coaches, executives and journalists. That last group represents the worst part about football" Marcelo Bielsa
Lufc76Cor wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 5:23 pm
I had high hopes for him when he signed as had seen him play for the USA a few times and thought he was lively, but he was terrible for us falling over all the time and never actually offering anything going foward , I think his feet are too quick for his brain, sort that out and he'd definitely get in the womens team
Not sure if he has a brain , he runs round like a headless chook , tries too many fancy little flicks that very rarely come off and is as hard as a tub of ice cream in the middle of the Sahara at midday in the height of summer !
Tbf neither am i. As you say he's not strong enough for English football. He needs to slow his game down and allow himself to think a little.
