Jesse Marsch

[weasel]

Forest don't have the promotion bounce/momentum/team spirit edge though.

The signings could be a recipe for disaster for Forest. They've lost arguably their best player from last year, the fullback Spence as well as theirr keeper, and now they've bought a lot of players who will expect to play which could push regulars out of the team. You also have your 'journeymen' players seeing someone come in like Lingaard on £200k per week - how hard will Lingaard or the other new buys try if they are struggling?

[Bally]

Pre season friendly results mean nothing,
As for Jesse theirs a reason he's the favourite to be sacked first but only time will tell

[Irish Ian]

Well so far the style is well ugly and the results arent great but the manager is upbeat.

Next week I expect a proper 90 minutes close enough to what Jesse wants to see.

Then we will have a proper idea of what the plan is.

[Irish Ian]

Pre season friendly results mean nothing,
As for Jesse theirs a reason he's the favourite to be sacked first but only time will tell

Results no but individual performances mean that we are heading in the right direction.If we are let's see.

[whiteswan]

Obviously the wrong appointment from day 1 for me. I've got no enthusiasm for this next season whatsoever... wake me up when he's gone!

Jury is out for me, but I'm not expecting much. Then again I'm the resident pessimist on here, have been for years! For some reason Jesse doesn't quite sit right with me. Hope I'm wrong.....

[Kennyb41]

I have the same feeling Swan and also hope i'm wrong in shooting ourselves in both feet.

Paul when jesses system fails, what do you think will be his next go to plan re formation and strategy?

[Kennyb41]

Obviously the wrong appointment from day 1 for me. I've got no enthusiasm for this next season whatsoever... wake me up when he's gone!

Dya know, i've actually woke up today and i began to wonder if i would prefer to watch us in the Prem with Jesse if we're shyte, or, would i have preferred to watch our swashbuckling style again in the Championship under Bert had we gone down.

Not even close.

Now the rest can politely fck off with their 'it's totally hyperthetical' and trying to raise an argument crap, but was just wondering what genuine Bert lovers thought, jeez i'd love to be watching it again and Leeds v Stoke was just about to happen.

[Aussieleeds]

Obviously I 100% want us to thrash the opponent in every game... that isn't incompatible with thinking we're barking up the wrong tree with this manager.

I need to have some belief in what we're doing, to see how it's supposed to work. I just don't think Marsch's system will be much good in the premier league.

After sides worked out MB’s system, it was only good enough to get us into a relegation scrap. So the benchmark for JM’s system is not that high.

MB’s system (which had been ingrained over 3 seasons) achieved 29 goals and a net -31 goal difference over 26 games. JM’s system (which was totally new to the team) achieved 13 goals and a -6 goal difference over 12 games. So Marsch’s system seems to compare very favourably in the real world when it comes to getting results.

Last season we were not blooding any new players in the friendlies. This season we have 6 new players and are missing our captain and Dallas. It’s hardly surprising that we are not producing top 6 football, is it?

The two games I saw live suggested we are not going to get bossed in midfield as often as we did last season. But we definitely need a better 9/10 solution than we currently have.

[The Subhuman]

Pre season friendly results mean nothing,
As for Jesse theirs a reason he's the favourite to be sacked first but only time will tell

Talk Sport had listeners ring in with their 3 favourites for the sack ...not one person mentioned Marsch while I was listening.

[Victor_OTT_17]

Regardless of who the manager is: I have to trust that Radz knows what he is doing (I almost don't believe that as I typed it but....)! Last year was a 5h1t-show, we know that but we have to trust that Radz et al did their homework when it came to appointing Marsch. No, it doesn't look great right noiw but Marsch is something new and unfamiliar. As fans, we have to get on board and we have to trust those that makes the decisions. Are we marching on together or is that just a chant for the the nostalgia-types among us?

Okay, I'm not excited as I ought to be but I'll tell you something: that may not be a bad thing! I was excited this time last season and look what happened. I've learnt to not expect too much and hoipe that whatever the plan is that it works...

[Mountain]

JM’s system (which was totally new to the team) achieved 13 goals and a -6 goal difference over 12 games. So Marsch’s system seems to compare very favourably in the real world when it comes to getting results.

It's clear from Marsch's system that sending offs matter.

We lost against Arsenal and Chelsea when we had a player sent off. We won against Wolves (despite muck football) and Brentford when they had a man sent off.

So my statistical analysis of Marsch's so far is that if the opposition is reduced to 10 in every game, we will get 114 points. But if we have a player sent off in every game we will get 0.

[whiteinfrance]

A new season with a largely overhauled squad, promising youngsters and money to spend

What is there not to be excited about?

Miserable yorkshire bastards!

[Aussieleeds]

It's clear from Marsch's system that sending offs matter.

We lost against Arsenal and Chelsea when we had a player sent off. We won against Wolves (despite muck football) and Brentford when they had a man sent off.

So my statistical analysis of Marsch's so far is that if the opposition is reduced to 10 in every game, we will get 114 points. But if we have a player sent off in every game we will get 0.

Or just maybe the new manager has a stronger focus on team discipline.

[Aussieleeds]

Stopped reading at this point.

A shame. You might have learned something.

[Mountain]

Or just maybe the new manager has a stronger focus on team discipline.

And how would that get an opposition player sent off in every match?

[Jaydog]

Dya know, i've actually woke up today and i began to wonder if i would prefer to watch us in the Prem with Jesse if we're shyte, or, would i have preferred to watch our swashbuckling style again in the Championship under Bert had we gone down.

Not even close.

Now the rest can politely fck off with their 'it's totally hyperthetical' and trying to raise an argument crap, but was just wondering what genuine Bert lovers thought, jeez i'd love to be watching it again and Leeds v Stoke was just about to happen.

Hypothetically speaking how do you know it would be swashbuckling Stoke style play back in the cesspit league considering what he would have been left with after all & sundry had been sold. I mean when you look at the Raph & KP saga what on earth would of happened if we’d gone down. Here anyone want a Leeds player. £5 for 3 or 4 for a tenner. I’d be hopeless running a shop in fairness

[weasel]

After sides worked out MB’s system, it was only good enough to get us into a relegation scrap. So the benchmark for JM’s system is not that high.

MB’s system (which had been ingrained over 3 seasons) achieved 29 goals and a net -31 goal difference over 26 games. JM’s system (which was totally new to the team) achieved 13 goals and a -6 goal difference over 12 games. So Marsch’s system seems to compare very favourably in the real world when it comes to getting results.

Last season we were not blooding any new players in the friendlies. This season we have 6 new players and are missing our captain and Dallas. It’s hardly surprising that we are not producing top 6 football, is it?

The two games I saw live suggested we are not going to get bossed in midfield as often as we did last season. But we definitely need a better 9/10 solution than we currently have.

Hhm great points. I thought we struggled more down to the never ending injury list including missing the spine of the team but can see I was wrong. Apparently the squad was fine then it was just down to tactics so it seems surprising JM wanted to bring in loads of new faces. Seems a waste of money really if simply changing tactics was the answer.

[Jaydog]

Hhm great points. I thought we struggled more down to the never ending injury list including missing the spine of the team but can see I was wrong. Apparently the squad was fine then it was just down to tactics so it seems surprising JM wanted to bring in loads of new faces. Seems a waste of money really if simply changing tactics was the answer.

Don’t understand the theory that teams “worked out” our system. It wasn’t that complex. Teams definitely prepared to play us like Liverpool for example who were bewildered by the man to man in training supposedly. I think what happened is they gradually got more used to dealing with it and we were always going to get a few hammerings playing like that especially against world class players. Then last year a perfect storm of injuries derailed us completely. Whether or not the players had grown tired of it or his system had a lifespan I don’t know. I don’t believe MB would of taken us to greater heights like CL football for example. Nor will Marsch for that matter as we’ll never hang on to our top players as recent events have highlighted.

[weasel]

Don’t understand the theory that teams “worked out” our system. It wasn’t that complex. Teams definitely prepared to play us like Liverpool for example who were bewildered by the man to man in training supposedly. I think what happened is they gradually got more used to dealing with it and we were always going to get a few hammerings playing like that especially against world class players. Then last year a perfect storm of injuries derailed us completely. Whether or not the players had grown tired of it or his system had a lifespan I don’t know. I don’t believe MB would of taken us to greater heights like CL football for example. Nor will Marsch for that matter as we’ll never hang on to our top players as recent events have highlighted.

All systems get worked out pretty quickly - however it doesn't mean they can be negated. Take Man City or Liverpool and they have their way of playing. Now you may work out a way to play against them that makes you create more chances than them but when you play against Liverpool they are going to take a far higher percentage of their chances than your team does (unless you have players of the same quality). As such you can work out the system but will still lose due to their superior players. Same when playing City you can thwart them pretty effectively but players with the ability of DeBruyne etc are capable of moments of magic that few players are.

For us to improve we needed better players. Bielsa had transformed the players he had inherited but no matter how well they played they were no match for Liverpool, Man City, Arsenal, Tottenham, Chelsea and Man U if those teams played well. To get points of those teams we needed our strongest team, a great performance and a bit of luck. Without our strongest team it was like taking a pea shooter into a war with someone with nuclear weapons. Last year instead of us improving we were effectively worse as neither of the 2 new signings performed significantly well and 2 of our 3 key players from the previous season (KP and PB) were non entities. As such the team regardless of tactics/manager (or teams working us out) would be expected to do much worse and unsurprisingly they did. If we'd have sold PB and KP at the start of the last season I think everyone would have predicted us for relegation or a huge struggle so why was there the surprise when it happened.

[weasel]

Hypothetically speaking how do you know it would be swashbuckling Stoke style play back in the cesspit league considering what he would have been left with after all & sundry had been sold. I mean when you look at the Raph & KP saga what on earth would of happened if we’d gone down. Here anyone want a Leeds player. £5 for 3 or 4 for a tenner. I’d be hopeless running a shop in fairness

A great point raised by Kenneth. I think I would be in the camp of preferring us to storm to promotion this season (if we'd got relegated) under Bielsa than struggle and maybe get relegated under JM. Nothing though is guaranteed in football and as such we may not have got promoted under Bielsa, the board may have sacked him, he may have walked out and Marsh may keep us up comfortably. As such I was as delighted and relieved as anyone when we stayed up (admittedly though that was also due to the reality that Bielsa was gone and I didn't think Marsch would be able to get us promoted).

Anyway in answer to the Jaydog poser and I see no reason why it wouldn't be a swashbucling style even if we sold KP, Raphinha, PB and various others. The reason I feel this would be the case was because he took the players he inherited and moulded them into the swashbuckling side so I see no reason why he wouldn't be able to do it with whatever players he had left. Likely with a mass clearout too he would have had a bit of money to spend.