The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 13th April) - Was Marsch right to criticise Bielsa?

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Breakfast Debate The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 13th April) - Was Marsch right to criticise Bielsa?

Post by Ellandback1 »



Good Morning. It's Wednesday 13th April, and here are the latest headlines from Elland Road...


Marsch criticises Bielsa's training methods

Leeds fans were left shell shocked following an interview on the talkSPORT Breakfast show yesterday with Ally McCoist, Natalie Sawyer and Darren Bent where Jesse Marsch criticised his predecessor's training methods. Marsch revealed that when he arrived at Elland Road, the stress levels were incredibly high, and he spent the first few days building up the player's confidence. It was when the gaffer was asked how near he was to having a full squad to pick from that listener's really were taken aback. The American point-blank linked the Elland Road injury crisis with Bielsa's training methodologies, in particular over-training. He claimed that in some games, the players had reached maximum output by the 15th minute, and that shouldn't be the case.

The injury issues had a lot to do with the training methodologies, the players were over-trained. That led them to being physically, mentally, psychologically and emotionally in a difficult place to recover from week-to-week and game-to-game. I have a very specific methodology in the way I work and I've had a reputation for having high running data in the way we play, but also having healthy, fit and strong players so we can meet the demands we want. So, we tried to put that into place to help the players, I think that has helped a lot.

The one with Patrick I felt terrible about because the responsibility of a coach to take care of players and to make sure you're not injuring them and putting them in harms way In the end, it didn't go the way I wanted with Patrick and I always feel like it is my responsibility to get that right. But for the most part, we are getting healthy and strong with almost the entire group. The other part of that is the playing style. Marcelo had such strong man-to-man demands and trying to rip apart three-and-a-half years of work structured exactly to do that, to now transitioning into what I want to do moving forward has been challenging for the players to adapt to.

From afar, you could see it on their faces and you could see in the 15th minute of some of those games that they were already at the maximum, and that shouldn't be the case. I know there were a lot of games where the guys had to play over and over again because of injuries, but I find that in this sport, you have to have a fit team. But the more your team is fit, healthy and performing at a high level, that is how you create success. Again, I have worked very carefully through methodologies of how we train, how we play, how everything fits together to make sure that we have a healthy group that is at top fitness and form so we can compete for as many points as possible.

Former player, now pundit Darren Bent was quick to Praise Marsch for his honesty following the interview...

He talks really well, and honest; when he spoke about the players fatigue and stuff, really honest.




Was Marsch right to criticise Bielsa?

Social media lit up following Jesse Marsch's interview on talkSPORT yesterday morning. The American was heavily criticised by some sections of the Elland Road faithful for throwing Marcelo Bielsa under the bus, whilst other fans praised the 48yo for his honesty and openness of the situation. Marcelo Bielsa will always be a legend in West Yorkshire. What he achieved during his three and a half year tenure was truly remarkable, and he will long be remembered with fondness and admiration. Recently, Citeh Manager Pep Guardiola paid Bielsa a glowing tribute whilst speaking to Telemundo Sports...

Give Bielsa my Barcelona and see how much [more] he wins. Give me his Leeds side and we would be in the Championship.

Was it fair for Marsch to link the injury crisis to over-training? Whilst we may never know whether the knock on effect Bielsa's strict training regime had on the players, we must remember that during previous campaigns, our injury list was no longer than our competitors! Searching through the archives, there was an interesting interview with the Argentine back in 2018. He was asked whether he was concerned that his training methods could lead to long term injury problems. Bielsa replied:-

We should analyse case by case. Actually, we are the team who has least injuries in the Championship. If we take some parameters, if we take into account the number of players used, we are a team with few injuries.




Leeds eye Forest Midfielder

Leeds have been monitoring the progress of Nottingham Forest midfielder Brennan Johnson according to freelance journalist Pete O'Rourke. Johnson, 20, has caught the eye of several top flight clubs, having netted 14 goals and seven assists from 39 Championship games so far this season. The 20-year-old first caught the eye of the Leeds scouts whilst playing alongside Robbie Gotts, (both on loan) at Lincoln City. Unfortunately for Leeds, their career's went in different directions. Whilst Johnson flourished, Gotts found himself down in the pecking order, and was later sold to Barrow following an equally unsuccessful loan move at Salford.

Johnson has fifteen months left on his contract, and is desperate to play top flight football. Forest find themselves 4th in the Championship, and are the form team in the division with six back to back wins. Should they win promotion, the Welsh International may be tempted to put pen to paper. Johnson is versatile. He has played every position in midfield, and up top for Forest this season, and according to O'Rourke, won't interfere with Leeds pursuit of Brenden Aaronson.


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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 13th April) Marsch rips into Bielsa

Post by Finnatic »

A balanced view on the training article:

https://www.thesquareball.net/leeds-uni ... snt-exist/
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 13th April) - Was Marsch right to criticise Bielsa?

Post by Mountain »

It's all been analysed to death now. Everyone knew that Bielsa overtrained players and they'd definitely blow up in January of the 1st season. Or the 2nd season, when we only went up because of Covid. Or the 3rd season when we finished 9th. Or the 4th season when missing the captain, main player and striker, suddenly the prediction made for years came true...

Marsch might note RB Leipzig's huge improvement since he left, with one player saying "it isn't like basketball anymore". It's easy to analyse after the event.
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 13th April) - Was Marsch right to criticise Bielsa?

Post by Byebyegeegee »

We need midfielders for sure but at 20 years old would he get into the 1st team and if not, would he be happy to come and play 2nd fiddle here having been a fixture in the 1st team at Forest. If Forest get promoted I would imagine he’d stay put for a couple of years at least, unless Citeh or Liverpool come calling.

At least I’m glad we’re seemingly looking to bolster the midfield rather than the wings.
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 13th April) Marsch rips into Bielsa

Post by mentalcase »

Finnatic wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 8:13 am A balanced view on the training article:

https://www.thesquareball.net/leeds-uni ... snt-exist/
A very good read finnatic.
Points different things out in a clear as mud way, without slating either manager off.
I don't see JM slagging off MB, it's his team now, and, he will do and say what he feels like saying without having the 'monkey on his back'
I see a lot of LU fans just waiting for us to fail in the stupid hope that their messiah will swan back in and win the premier league, champions, league FA cup and super cup, we lose too often low clubs for the league club, but, non of this will ever happen, ever, never ever, he's been sacked, off ya pop, boot up t' arse, get over it peeps.
JM has an awful long, long way to go to win over the hearts and minds of the paying public, not all of course, as some, could see this season in particular getting us relegated, including the clubs owners, it's not a MB fanclub, never was ,never will be, it's LEEDS UNITED FOOTBALL CLUB.
If it don't work out for JM, it dosen't, these things happen as with any other team, we are a team working on a very limited budget and that has massive restraints on who we can afford and where we can go shopping, JM will have my full backing, I knew very little of him prior to his United appointment, probably as much as most on here, but, I wish him all the best with us, nothing to do with the boring boring tedious Bielsa debacle, but, because he's our new manager, manager of LUFC.
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 13th April) Marsch rips into Bielsa

Post by White Riot »

mentalcase wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 8:49 am A very good read finnatic.
Points different things out in a clear as mud way, without slating either manager off.
I don't see JM slagging off MB, it's his team now, and, he will do and say what he feels like saying without having the 'monkey on his back'
I see a lot of LU fans just waiting for us to fail in the stupid hope that their messiah will swan back in and win the premier league, champions, league FA cup and super cup, we lose too often low clubs for the league club, but, non of this will ever happen, ever, never ever, he's been sacked, off ya pop, boot up t' arse, get over it peeps.
JM has an awful long, long way to go to win over the hearts and minds of the paying public, not all of course, as some, could see this season in particular getting us relegated, including the clubs owners, it's not a MB fanclub, never was ,never will be, it's LEEDS UNITED FOOTBALL CLUB.
If it don't work out for JM, it dosen't, these things happen as with any other team, we are a team working on a very limited budget and that has massive restraints on who we can afford and where we can go shopping, JM will have my full backing, I knew very little of him prior to his United appointment, probably as much as most on here, but, I wish him all the best with us, nothing to do with the boring boring tedious Bielsa debacle, but, because he's our new manager, manager of LUFC.
I fully agree with you MC :tup:

Bielsa's gone, end of, thanks for your efforts and ciao.

Jesse was asked for his opinion on fitness and gave his honest opinion, I don't see the problem.

What do people expect? Jesse to say "I'm shite, you should have stuck with Marcelo and got relegated" :lol:

I think he's doing a great job and has galvanized the squad into better condition, performances and results.

Oscar and Chris commented on this issue:

https://youtu.be/rBTbeOKihdI
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 13th April) Marsch rips into Bielsa

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White Riot wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 9:05 am I fully agree with you MC :tup:

Bielsa's gone, end of, thanks for your efforts and ciao.

Jesse was asked for his opinion on fitness and gave his honest opinion, I don't see the problem.

What do people expect? Jesse to say "I'm shite, you should have stuck with Marcelo and got relegated" :lol:

I think he's doing a great job and has galvanized the squad into better condition, performances and results.

Oscar and Chris commented on this issue:

https://youtu.be/rBTbeOKihdI
:rol: :rol: :rol: :rol: :rol:
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 13th April) - Was Marsch right to criticise Bielsa?

Post by billysboots »

A lot of us thought the players were struggling with the training regime this season, some of them getting older etc, but it wasn’t necessary to go on the radio and talk about it. Disrespectful I think, and unprofessional.
It’s done now though, onwards and upwards.
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 13th April) - Was Marsch right to criticise Bielsa?

Post by WhiteRose »

Whenever we saw clips of the players from Newells talking about Bielsa they all said eventually they could give no more. Pep references getting tired aswell - the method worked and then some for what Bielsa was tasked to do and for that we will forever be grateful but everything has its end. Bielsa didn’t seem to have any more answers I believe he tried to change training in the summer and it didn’t work.

It’s fair for Jesse to mention it as his opinion as to why we had injury issues it’s not like it hasn’t been discussed before. Jesse will never have had quite as much limelight shine on him as he does now and I hope he learns when it’s appropriate to embrace it and when to step out of it.
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 13th April) - Was Marsch right to criticise Bielsa?

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billysboots wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 9:14 am A lot of us thought the players were struggling with the training regime this season, some of them getting older etc, but it wasn’t necessary to go on the radio and talk about it. Disrespectful I think, and unprofessional.
It’s done now though, onwards and upwards.
He was asked the question and gave what he considered an honest answer.
No problem and certainly not disrespectful.
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 13th April) - Was Marsch right to criticise Bielsa?

Post by Mountain »

billysboots wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 9:14 am Disrespectful I think, and unprofessional.
I think it's fine once it cuts both ways. A good interviewer would simply ask him to explain how he got it so wrong at his last club, why they have so quickly improved once he left, and does he accept the criticism that he thought it was like basketball. And to reassure us why it won't go the same way here.

It's that very simple rule of give and take.
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 13th April) - Was Marsch right to criticise Bielsa?

Post by Byebyegeegee »

You can always depend on Moscowhite to be lucid and thorough and produce a good read but I think the inference that Marsch himself instigated the interview may not be correct. I don’t know how these things work in practice but I would have thought that Talksport would need to get an interview sanctioned by the club. They may have seen it as a chance to maintain the club’s high profile currently and therefore Marsch might not have had an option or least have been encouraged to do it.
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 13th April) - Was Marsch right to criticise Bielsa?

Post by White Riot »

Byebyegeegee wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 9:26 am You can always depend on Moscowhite to be lucid and thorough and produce a good read but I think the inference that Marsch himself instigated the interview may not be correct. I don’t know how these things work in practice but I would have thought that Talksport would need to get an interview sanctioned by the club. They may have seen it as a chance to maintain the club’s high profile currently and therefore Marsch might not have had an option or least have been encouraged to do it.
I would also say that Radz n co may view the current upturn in results and Jesse's open approach to interviews as an opportunity to deflect some of the negativity they've attracted as a result of sacking Bielsa.
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 13th April) - Was Marsch right to criticise Bielsa?

Post by mentalcase »

JM will learn the hard way regarding the English press / media, one day they put you on a pedestal, the next, your'e with the tabloids, in the gutter, unless of course your'e one of the media darlings, which, btw, we never will be.
Learn quickly Jesse, you'll need to, because if it's not the media sharpening their knives, it will be the Bielsa lot.
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 13th April) - Was Marsch right to criticise Bielsa?

Post by Ellandback1 »

Byebyegeegee wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 9:26 am You can always depend on Moscowhite to be lucid and thorough and produce a good read but I think the inference that Marsch himself instigated the interview may not be correct. I don’t know how these things work in practice but I would have thought that Talksport would need to get an interview sanctioned by the club. They may have seen it as a chance to maintain the club’s high profile currently and therefore Marsch might not have had an option or least have been encouraged to do it.
I don't think Mrsch organised the interview. At the end, Natalie Sawyer said she wanted to thank Leeds Utd for setting it up!
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 13th April) Marsch rips into Bielsa

Post by William »

Finnatic wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 8:13 am A balanced view on the training article:

https://www.thesquareball.net/leeds-uni ... snt-exist/
Thanks for posting that mate.
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Football has undergone a process of bielsification; pressing and possessing, passing rather than dribbling, intercepting high up the field rather than making last-ditch tackles, are in vogue.

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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 13th April) - Was Marsch right to criticise Bielsa?

Post by Ellandback1 »

Ellandback1 wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 10:30 am I don't think Mrsch organised the interview. At the end, Natalie Sawyer said she wanted to thank Leeds Utd for setting it up!
And bearing this in mind, does anybody believe that perhaps the hierarchy wanted a bit of Bielsa bashing?
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 13th April) - Was Marsch right to criticise Bielsa?

Post by William »

Ellandback1 wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 10:30 am I don't think Mrsch organised the interview. At the end, Natalie Sawyer said she wanted to thank Leeds Utd for setting it up!
What irks me is that Marsch steered the interview into the territory that has drawn him so much flak.
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 13th April) - Was Marsch right to criticise Bielsa?

Post by William »

Ellandback1 wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 10:37 am And bearing this in mind, does anybody believe that perhaps the hierarchy wanted a bit of Bielsa bashing?
Then we have a yes man at the helm?

That will end well :lol:
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 13th April) - Was Marsch right to criticise Bielsa?

Post by CHAPELALLMAN »

There's an article in one of the tabloids today entitled ' Bielsa's brutal training was killing our stars.

" Marsch has brought back regular days off. They were so rare under Bielsa that one player's wife complained about the lack of time her husband was spending with their children.

It is no surprise then that when Marsch told his squad that they would be getting 5 days off following their win at Wolves last month, the celebrations in the dressing room marched those on the pitch moments earlier.

The players are said to be more refreshed and relaxed under their new coach, helped by the dialing down of the intensity of their training - not least on a Weds. '

' My first murderball was on my second day at Leeds. After doing it I thought " what the f*** am I doing here, said centre half Robin Koch last season. '
Last edited by CHAPELALLMAN on Wed Apr 13, 2022 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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