Marcelo Bielsa

[velo]

Last orders please, Taxi for MB

[lufcconnor]

I don't want it to be. I have mixed feelings, but if results don't improve I'm afraid we have to put the club before any manager.

[CHAPELALLMAN]

To me this situation is caused by a raft of of issues which have all converged to create a perfect storm ;

Orta's poor recruitment, a foolish overreliance on several championship players out of a misplaced sense of loyalty, the insistence on using a tiny squad, overtraining the players, starting players out of position and man marking regardless of the opponent. Oh, and an inability to deal with a hard press - that's how most teams set out against us now.

It's easy to brush all this off by believing that the issue is an abnormal number of injuries, however the injuries are the result of the recruitment, the small squad and overtraining the players ( Murderball two days after a midweek match ...)

Have I left any out ?

[Cjay]

Souness is ripping our tactics and setup apart and it has to be said he isn't wrong.

The issue is we are trying to play a sort of kamikaze version of the football the Pep Barcelona side played with.

It's that style turned up to 10 . The press is harder the man to man system is more ferocious the speed of the attacking play is insant the patterns of passing is almost robotic.

The problem is the flaws in the system are easily exploited because of the quality of the players and the robotics of the system.

Better managers study the system and passing patterns and know if and when to press and steal the ball back. Because the players are so robotic everyone just does what they automatically are programmed to do and hence we get caught out often.

The players have all the individuality coached out of them so they end up doing ludicrous things (like Koch following Lacazette everywhere even when it makes no sense).

It is effectively a team of robots.

Problem with that is it needs to be flawlessly executed or we are easy pickings.

So whilst the Bielsa coaching has got us this far and absolutely 100% it has, it is now a hindering factor because at the top level if you don't evolve you will eventually be caught out

Their are no secrets to our style or system and we don't have the quality of individual talent to do it well enough for us not to suffer because of it.

People will point out to the past but we are in unchartered waters under Bielsa.

Never before have we looked so vulnerable under him and never before has his system looked so predictable and amature.

We are naturally very protective of Bielsa but their is a stupidity in his system and undoubtedly it isn't a system that you can get away with being 50/50.

If you aren't executing it perfextly it is a suicidal system.

People will point to last season but we can't live in the past. Last season a group of players played out of their skins. This season they aren't and they are now being totally exposed by the very system that helped them get here.

At this moment we are not playing well and the system is a huge factor in that.

[SG90]

The problem is Bielsa thinks Klich, Dallas, Ayling, Cooper, Roberts, Harrison, James, Forshaw are all good enough.

[SG90]

To me this situation is caused by a raft of of issues which have all converged to create a perfect storm ;

Orta's poor recruitment, a foolish overreliance on several championship players out of a misplaced sense of loyalty, the insistence on using a tiny squad, overtraining the players, starting players out of position and man marking regardless of the opponent.

It's easy to brush all this off by believing that issue is an abnormal number of injuries, however the injuries are the result of the recruitment, the small squad and overtraining the players ( Murderball two days after a midweek match ...)

Have I left any out ?

Doing the same thing over and over again despite it not working, ie we'll do the same against Liverpool.

[Overman]

Yes it is. No time for sentiment sadly.

[velo]

Doing the same thing over and over again despite it not working, ie we'll do the same against Liverpool.

We were successful in the championship as we out ran the opps, first year in the Prem, we out ran most clubs, now they know whats coming.....change tactics, or change players, we are so predectable

[SG90]

We can't keep hiding behind injuries and the opposition. We haven't had a good performance all season.

[CHAPELALLMAN]

Souness is ripping our tactics and setup apart and it has to be said he isn't wrong.

The issue is we are trying to play a sort of kamikaze version of the football the Pep Barcelona side played with.

It's that style turned up to 10 . The press is harder the man to man system is more ferocious the speed of the attacking play is insant the patterns of passing is almost robotic.

The problem is the flaws in the system are easily exploited because of the quality of the players and the robotics of the system.

Better managers study the system and passing patterns and know if and when to press and steal the ball back. Because the players are so robotic everyone just does what they automatically are programmed to do and hence we get caught out often.

The players have all the individuality coached out of them so they end up doing ludicrous things (like Koch following Lacazette everywhere even when it makes no sense).

It is effectively a team of robots.

Problem with that is it needs to be flawlessly executed or we are easy pickings.

So whilst the Bielsa coaching has got us this far and absolutely 100% it has, it is now a hindering factor because at the top level if you don't evolve you will eventually be caught out

Their are no secrets to our style or system and we don't have the quality of individual talent to do it well enough for us not to suffer because of it.

People will point out to the past but we are in unchartered waters under Bielsa.

Never before have we looked so vulnerable under him and never before has his system looked so predictable and amature.

We are naturally very protective of Bielsa but their is a stupidity in his system and undoubtedly it isn't a system that you can get away with being 50/50.

If you aren't executing it perfextly it is a suicidal system.

People will point to last season but we can't live in the past. Last season a group of players played out of their skins. This season they aren't and they are now being totally exposed by the very system that helped them get here.

At this moment we are not playing well and the system is a huge factor in that.

in other words a robotic system works fine in the championship, but not at all when you are up against more intelligent and more skillful players in the PL. Man marking makes it all worse.

[Mick Jones shoulder]

Souness is ripping our tactics and setup apart and it has to be said he isn't wrong.

The issue is we are trying to play a sort of kamikaze version of the football the Pep Barcelona side played with.

It's that style turned up to 10 . The press is harder the man to man system is more ferocious the speed of the attacking play is insant the patterns of passing is almost robotic.

The problem is the flaws in the system are easily exploited because of the quality of the players and the robotics of the system.

Better managers study the system and passing patterns and know if and when to press and steal the ball back. Because the players are so robotic everyone just does what they automatically are programmed to do and hence we get caught out often.

The players have all the individuality coached out of them so they end up doing ludicrous things (like Koch following Lacazette everywhere even when it makes no sense).

It is effectively a team of robots.

Problem with that is it needs to be flawlessly executed or we are easy pickings.

So whilst the Bielsa coaching has got us this far and absolutely 100% it has, it is now a hindering factor because at the top level if you don't evolve you will eventually be caught out

Their are no secrets to our style or system and we don't have the quality of individual talent to do it well enough for us not to suffer because of it.

People will point out to the past but we are in unchartered waters under Bielsa.

Never before have we looked so vulnerable under him and never before has his system looked so predictable and amature.

We are naturally very protective of Bielsa but their is a stupidity in his system and undoubtedly it isn't a system that you can get away with being 50/50.

If you aren't executing it perfextly it is a suicidal system.

People will point to last season but we can't live in the past. Last season a group of players played out of their skins. This season they aren't and they are now being totally exposed by the very system that helped them get here.

At this moment we are not playing well and the system is a huge factor in that.

Bang on

[joelufc20]

Think so, quite simply we have been found out, exactly the same as Wilder was found out last season with his tactics of attacking overlapping centre backs. We have had injuries but we have been awful all season. We haven’t played a decent 90mins yet. For me and I’ll be unpopular for saying it but we need Big Sam to steady the ship and he needs a budget he’s proven at it, promotes youth players and is good in the market. He does play shot football but gets results. Last season he failed with West Brom but they were well gone anyway. We need to start with the basics of defending and keeping clean sheets. Bielsa will relegate us and he won’t change his tactics or insistence of playing multiple players out of position to try and claw points. One system and one system only which is far too easy to pick apart.

[MightyWhites]

Think so, quite simply we have been found out, exactly the same as Wilder was found out last season with his tactics of attacking overlapping centre backs. We have had injuries but we have been awful all season. We haven’t played a decent 90mins yet. For me and I’ll be unpopular for saying it but we need Big Sam to steady the ship and he needs a budget he’s proven at it, promotes youth players and is good in the market. He does play shot football but gets results. Last season he failed with West Brom but they were well gone anyway. We need to start with the basics of defending and keeping clean sheets. Bielsa will relegate us and he won’t change his tactics or insistence of playing multiple players out of position to try and claw points. One system and one system only which is far too easy to pick apart.

Moronic quote of the year. You left it late!

[Overman]

Who is available out there anyway ? Any suggestions ? I'm not too up on this.

Maybe bring David O'Leary out of retirement - he's still relatively youngish...

If we could bring in Erik ten Hag (great name), but couldn't see him leaving Ajax, Santo may be a good shout defensively, or Martinez may have had enough with Belgium by now

[velo]

The problem is Bielsa thinks Klich, Dallas, Ayling, Cooper, Roberts, Harrison, James, Forshaw are all good enough.

Does he? We don't know! But he works with what he has.....Maybe it's not all his fault, the board has to be accountable

[Cjay]

To answer the question, I don't think we can sack Bielsa mid season.

We have put our everything into Bielsa and committed to him 100% as you have to do.

The upside is obvious.

The downside is this situation now.

The squad is very 1 dimensional with very little talent or flexibility tactically.

We have a very off the ball lots of effort sort of squad, we don't have a very talented or flexible one.

Therefore we are effectively held to ransom by Bielsa (not meant in a critical way) but because of his demands in terms of squad size and the sort of player he wants it leaves very little flexibility in the squad.

Therefore it limits what a new coach can do without significant investment the level of which its unlikely Radz and the Venture capital group would consider in January.

The concern I have though is the fans may applaud but players won't keep faith forever especially if they see flaws in the system that we can

They won't be happy being sent out like lambs to the slaughter week in week out so something will need to give.

[SG90]

Does he? We don't know! But he works with what he has.....Maybe it's not all his fault, the board has to be accountable

Bielsa didn't want a CM and turned down players like Lang, De Paul and Cunha.

[Overman]

Think so, quite simply we have been found out, exactly the same as Wilder was found out last season with his tactics of attacking overlapping centre backs. We have had injuries but we have been awful all season. We haven’t played a decent 90mins yet. For me and I’ll be unpopular for saying it but we need Big Sam to steady the ship and he needs a budget he’s proven at it, promotes youth players and is good in the market. He does play shot football but gets results. Last season he failed with West Brom but they were well gone anyway. We need to start with the basics of defending and keeping clean sheets. Bielsa will relegate us and he won’t change his tactics or insistence of playing multiple players out of position to try and claw points. One system and one system only which is far too easy to pick apart.

Joel, I was with you all the way there up until you mentioned Mr Potato Head.

[velo]

Bielsa didn't want a CM and turned down players like Lang, De Paul and Cunha.

I have no idea how he thinks, but the body languge today from some of the players suggests they are not happy

[CHAPELALLMAN]

If we could bring in Erik ten Hag (great name), but couldn't see him leaving Ajax, Santo may be a good shout defensively, or Martinez may have had enough with Belgium by now

Interesting Overman - thanks.