Marcelo Bielsa

[rab_rant]

I count 8 International in the Bielsa team... how many in the O'leary team?

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[Durly]

Not much love for my childhood team

I will go against the grain then, i adored that O'Leary team.

For someone to young to remember Revie or Wilko the O'Leary years are as good as it got.

Great times.

I loved them at the time but my love for them has not aged well. Out of the players mentioned, I still have a huge soft spot for Big Nige, Lucas, Dom and to a lesser extent Gary Kelly and Batts (although in the case of the latter, that's more for his first spell with us). The actions of many of the others still leaves a very bitter taste, sadly.

[Cjay]

I count 8 International in the Bielsa team... how many in the O'leary team?

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All.of them

[Byebyegeegee]

Dolly without doubt for me, especially if I can transfer Rapha for Kewell.

I wouldn’t be so hasty mc.

Harry Kewell, at his best, imo was probably the most naturally gifted player we’ve ever produced - he had everything, fantastic ball control, fantastic dribbling skills, an unusual ability to do the unexpected, a great shot with either feet, combine all that with scintillating speed and he could have been one of, if not the best player in the world.

Unfortunately he was lumbered with a poor work ethic and terrible attitude which let him down badly. So yes, you’re probably right to take Raphinha!

Overall though I think O’Leary’s team takes it.

[rab_rant]

All.of them

At that particular time or later in their careers... Just asking

[VinnysTattoo]

In pure footballing terms there is only Raphinha who I’d swap one for one.

DOL placed his faith in a couple of youngsters which I wish or current manager would, however, I prefer our style of play. DOL lost the plot quite soon into his tenure. Our league form became patchy and ultimately cost us a Champions League spot. Once he got the big time players in he couldn’t handle them.

Looking at that squad it was wasted. Imagine that level of player with MB at the helm.

[Chilli D]

The O'Leary team wins every time. That squad got us to a CL semi final.
Heartbreaking the way it all went tits up after that.

[Mountain]

O'Leary did well, but that squad had a few record breaking transfers, most expensive British teenager, most expensive British goalkeeper, most expensive British player (and world record for a defender) etc. And while he brought through youngsters, and there were some great memories, ultimately his legacy was to be part of the group that broke the club chasing the dream of throwing huge sums at rising what...6 or 7 places up the table? I fully appreciate Ridsdale was the central player in that, but O'Leary was not blameless. And then you have the shadow cast by Bowyer, Woodgate, the book etc. Frankly, given what happened afterwards, I wish that era never happened.

Bielsa has transformed players and the club in a far more positive way.

O'Leary's side wins. But a 4th or 5th placed Premier League side with an eye watering wage bill should always beat a team that is 18 months out of the Championship and keeps a much tighter rein on wages. The person who enjoyed the O'Leary era most of all must be Seth Johnson

[whiteroseboy]

I've used an inflation calculator.

It takes the cost of the player in the year he was signed and inflates it to reflect the changes in values over the year.

So it takes £1mil in 1998 and inflates it to its modern equivalent for example

Trouble is Football inflation far excedes inflation in that period.
Players are about 4 to 5 times more expensive today (400 to 500%}
Hence a £10mill player in 1998 would be just under £50mill in today's market.

Eg, We paid 18mill for Ferdinand following a world cup performance, Scum played 80mill fot their England CB both records for a defender.

[whiteroseboy]

O'Leary did well, but that squad had a few record breaking transfers, most expensive British teenager, most expensive British goalkeeper, most expensive British player (and world record for a defender) etc. And while he brought through youngsters, and there were some great memories, ultimately his legacy was to be part of the group that broke the club chasing the dream of throwing huge sums at rising what...6 or 7 places up the table? I fully appreciate Ridsdale was the central player in that, but O'Leary was not blameless. And then you have the shadow cast by Bowyer, Woodgate, the book etc. Frankly, given what happened afterwards, I wish that era never happened.

Bielsa has transformed players and the club in a far more positive way.

O'Leary's side wins. But a 4th or 5th placed Premier League side with an eye watering wage bill should always beat a team that is 18 months out of the Championship and keeps a much tighter rein on wages. The person who enjoyed the O'Leary era most of all must be Seth Johnson

Was going to write something similar DOL inheritated a team that were 5th the season before.
He also inheritated one of the best youth teams in the country all about to break through.
He also was at the Club that were the biggest spenders. We all know that cost 17 years.

MB inherited a team of journeymen struggling in the Championship
MB inherited a youth set up with the U23's playing in the 3rd tier of their age group. Other teams weren't doing that well either.
Not sure about this season but weren't we 19th in last season spending stakes (signings + wage bills).

Its very difficult to fail when you are among the big spenders with the power to buy all your rivals best players (although Olly had a good stab at failure). Sadly the more I think about the DOL time we became one of those clubs (or tried to be) and think he got very lucky that a CL semi is on his CV as it had more to do with what he inherited and the spending power he was wrongly given than his ability as a manager.

MB's success is far greater IMHO he's taken the whole club forward and when he does eventually say goodbye its critical we get the right man. That person will inherit a very good situation.

[WestgateRun]

The O'Leary team was one of the best teams around in that period, with some talented young players.
The Bielsa team is what it is. A team assembled to get us out of the Championship and back into the top league.

[CHAPELALLMAN]

Was going to write something similar DOL inheritated a team that were 5th the season before.
He also inheritated one of the best youth teams in the country all about to break through.
He also was at the Club that were the biggest spenders. We all know that cost 17 years.

MB inherited a team of journeymen struggling in the Championship
MB inherited a youth set up with the U23's playing in the 3rd tier of their age group. Other teams weren't doing that well either.
Not sure about this season but weren't we 19th in last season spending stakes (signings + wage bills).

Its very difficult to fail when you are among the big spenders with the power to buy all your rivals best players (although Olly had a good stab at failure). Sadly the more I think about the DOL time we became one of those clubs (or tried to be) and think he got very lucky that a CL semi is on his CV as it had more to do with what he inherited and the spending power he was wrongly given than his ability as a manager.

MB's success is far greater IMHO he's taken the whole club forward and when he does eventually say goodbye its critical we get the right man. That person will inherit a very good situation.

Don't forget that although the team that O'Leary inherited was capable of of a 5th place PL finish, the style of play under George Graham was pretty dour and boring. O'Leary got the team playing in an exciting, swashbuckling manner which rivals the excitement of a Bielsa team when playing at its best.

Credit also needs to be given to Howard Wilkinson ( seemingly almost forgotten about by many fans ) for setting up the Thorp Arch academy which produced a crop of youngsters which O'Leary was able to let off the leash. After all these years I still find it astonishing that Wilko was able to take a team lying 21st in the old second division and in danger of relegation, and in just 3.5 seasons turn them into the equivalent of PL champions today.He won 2 league titles in 3 years. Consider too the stranglehold which the likes of Liverpool had on the old first division - 11 titles in 19 years.

Also, the club were in two consecutive European semis under O'Leary - not just the CL semi. 3rd place in the PL after all these years is still the best that the club has managed since the PL started. Ultimately it was down to the chairman to decide what the club could or couldn't afford - it was Risdale's idea to tie players such as Seth Johnson down to highly paid long term contracts. I think the spending on wages went up threefold in just a couple of years. It was Risdale's idea to mortgage the club based on future CL revenue which would be the equivalent ( if it were possible ) of someone taking out a mortagage based on nothing more than job applications for a job which they are hoping they will be accepted for.

I don't really blame O'Leary for what happened - he gave us a few terrific seasons which we can still only dream about nowadays. It wasn't his fault that the Bowyer/Woodgate thing happened, and it wasn't his fault that Risdale took leave of his senses. I didn't like the book idea, but other that that if I met David O'Leary tomorrow I would shake his hand and thank him for several exciting seasons which included Leeds making their mark in Europe again with two European semis. Howard Wilkinson I would probably bow to. Mr Bielsa I would say hello to.

[billysboots]

I’m enjoying reading this thread.
My first thought was, could O’Leary get us promoted out of the championship ?
I think he would have struggled.

[Durly]

I’m enjoying reading this thread.
My first thought was, could O’Leary get us promoted out of the championship ?
I think he would have struggled.

I agree.

Also, re: someone earlier mentioning O'Leary starting well but losing it later on.........I don't think his shoving Eddie aside and bringing in Brian Kidd can be underestimated. We were a much more exciting side to watch when Eddie was DOL's right hand man.

[VinnysTattoo]

I agree.

Also, re: someone earlier mentioning O'Leary starting well but losing it later on.........I don't think his shoving Eddie aside and bringing in Brian Kidd can be underestimated. We were a much more exciting side to watch when Eddie was DOL's right hand man.

I think this is when the decline had it’s roots. Under Kidd we changed our style, especially in the Premiership. In addition DOL spent less and less time on the training pitch.

[Cjay]

At that particular time or later in their careers... Just asking

Erm with the exception of Batty and Wilcox i think.

The rest were at Leeds playing internationally under O'Leary, Wilcox and Batty were earlier.

[YorkshireSquare]

Eg, We paid 18mill for Ferdinand following a world cup performance, Scum played 80mill fot their England CB both records for a defender.

If Harry Maguire is worth £80 million then god knows what a peak Rio Ferdinand would be worth these days!

[Cjay]

Trouble is Football inflation far excedes inflation in that period.
Players are about 4 to 5 times more expensive today (400 to 500%}
Hence a £10mill player in 1998 would be just under £50mill in today's market.

Eg, We paid 18mill for Ferdinand following a world cup performance, Scum played 80mill fot their England CB both records for a defender.

Very true mate.

But at the same time should recognise the amount of academy lads in that O'Leary team.

The bargains like Radebe, Viduka, Bakke, it wasnt all about lots of cash.

Even Dacourt at the time was imo a bargain.

Peak Rio made Maguire look like Cooper, Radebe and Woodgate fully fit were better than Maguire.

[Cjay]

Here are some dilemmas.

In top form and fully fit would Kalvin Phillips get in ahead of Dacourt and Batty?

Would Bamford displace any of Smith, Viduka and Keane?

Would Raph displace Kewell? I am talking about pre injury Kewell so his best and last prime season pre injuries when he was only 21-22 and getting 17 goals and 20 assists in all competitions.

[Finnatic]

Don't forget that although the team that O'Leary inherited was capable of of a 5th place PL finish, the style of play under George Graham was pretty dour and boring. O'Leary got the team playing in an exciting, swashbuckling manner which rivals the excitement of a Bielsa team when playing at its best.

Credit also needs to be given to Howard Wilkinson ( seemingly almost forgotten about by many fans ) for setting up the Thorp Arch academy which produced a crop of youngsters which O'Leary was able to let off the leash. After all these years I still find it astonishing that Wilko was able to take a team lying 21st in the old second division and in danger of relegation, and in just 3.5 seasons turn them into the equivalent of PL champions today.He won 2 league titles in 3 years. Consider too the stranglehold which the likes of Liverpool had on the old first division - 11 titles in 19 years.

Also, the club were in two consecutive European semis under O'Leary - not just the CL semi. 3rd place in the PL after all these years is still the best that the club has managed since the PL started. Ultimately it was down to the chairman to decide what the club could or couldn't afford - it was Risdale's idea to tie players such as Seth Johnson down to highly paid long term contracts. I think the spending on wages went up threefold in just a couple of years. It was Risdale's idea to mortgage the club based on future CL revenue which would be the equivalent ( if it were possible ) of someone taking out a mortagage based on nothing more than job applications for a job which they are hoping to start in the near future.

I don't really blame O'Leary for what happened - he gave us a few terrific seasons which we can still only dream about nowadays. It wasn't his fault that the Bowyer/Woodgate thing happened, and it wasn't his fault that Risdale took leave of his senses. I didn't like the book idea, but other that that if I met David O'Leary tomorrow I would shake his hand and thank him for several exciting seasons which included Leeds making their mark in Europe again with two European semis. Howard Wilkinson I would probably bow to.

Pretty much my thoughts.
Don’t forget, either side of third place we finished fourth which now gets you a CL place.
The second time we finished fourth were very unlucky as we scored a perfectly good last kick winner v Scum only for the offside flag when Wes Brown (I think) kept us onside.
As soon as they took the free-kick, the ref blew for full time. Had the goal stood we’d have finished third as Scum wouldn’t have had time to equalise.