Wars on the cards... Isis threat!

Wolfetoneleeds · Post by **Wolfetoneleeds** » Wed Sep 24, 2014 2:12 pm

So looks like we going back to war.

Views?

barryanorak · Post by **barryanorak** » Wed Sep 24, 2014 2:27 pm

War, huh?

What is it good for?

Wolfetoneleeds · Post by **Wolfetoneleeds** » Wed Sep 24, 2014 2:37 pm

Not a lot

andywatson · Post by **andywatson** » Wed Sep 24, 2014 2:59 pm

Wolfetoneleeds wrote:Not a lot

I think "absolutely nothing" was the response he was hoping for.

barryanorak · Post by **barryanorak** » Wed Sep 24, 2014 3:04 pm

andywatson wrote:
I think "absolutely nothing" was the response he was hoping for.

Say it again... :mrgreen:

Post by **hector** » Wed Sep 24, 2014 3:13 pm

Done my share of wars..... (15 last count)... too old now to be called up, so.... I shall watch it go by on BBC news web site.

barryanorak · Post by **barryanorak** » Wed Sep 24, 2014 3:20 pm

In all seriousness, when does an armed conflict become a war?

woodfordwhites · Post by **woodfordwhites** » Wed Sep 24, 2014 3:28 pm

barryanorak wrote:In all seriousness, when does an armed conflict become a war?

look over there

Martyn · Post by **Martyn** » Wed Sep 24, 2014 3:31 pm

barryanorak wrote:In all seriousness, when does an armed conflict become a war?

Wars can only happen between states, and IS, whatever it claims, is not a state. Just as Israeli actions against Palestinians (or vice versa) are not wars, nor is any conflict with IS.

barryanorak · Post by **barryanorak** » Wed Sep 24, 2014 3:38 pm

Guildford White wrote:
Wars can only happen between states, and IS, whatever it claims, is not a state. Just as Israeli actions against Palestinians (or vice versa) are not wars, nor is any conflict with IS.

That's what I was wondering.

Where's Jack Bauer when you need him most...

Martyn · Post by **Martyn** » Wed Sep 24, 2014 3:39 pm

Last saw him at number 24

Post by **hector** » Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:11 pm

getting on a helicopter for a little jaunt to Mother Russia I believe...

barryanorak · Post by **barryanorak** » Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:48 pm

hector wrote:getting on a helicopter for a little jaunt to Mother Russia I believe...

That was a poor series...

Clacton White · Post by **Clacton White** » Wed Sep 24, 2014 5:15 pm

Been out of the country for a week , not heard ANY news at all . Can't turn your back for a moment - still haven't a clue what this is all about as I haven't tuned into anything yet . Only got back this afternoon from Croatia.

Post by **hector** » Wed Sep 24, 2014 5:57 pm

barryanorak wrote:

That was a poor series...

It was..... glad there were only 12.

Twiggster · Post by **Twiggster** » Thu Sep 25, 2014 2:24 am

hector wrote:
It was..... glad there were only 12.

But you watched them all anyway?

As to isis - sending in ground forces is suicide. You never know who is your enemy. Afghanistan is a modern lesson to be learned, even if the "west" didn't learn it in Vietnam.

Withdraw all troops and then repeatedly carpet bomb all known areas they are based in. Drastic yes - but the isis threat needs to be wiped out.

Martyn · Post by **Martyn** » Thu Sep 25, 2014 6:17 am

Twiggster wrote:
But you watched them all anyway?

As to isis - sending in ground forces is suicide. You never know who is your enemy. Afghanistan is a modern lesson to be learned, even if the "west" didn't learn it in Vietnam.
Withdraw all troops and then repeatedly carpet bomb all known areas they are based in. Drastic yes - but the isis threat needs to be wiped out.

Care to estimate, to the nearest hundred thousand, how many innocent civilians you would kill that way? Or if that number is too daunting, the number of children?

There are no easy solutions, but carpet bombing residential areas is certainly one of the worst.

drsdadsotherson · Post by **drsdadsotherson** » Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:56 pm

The fight against IS is something we cannot ignore. We helped create the situation with inept handling of the handover to the new Iraqi government and we must hold ourselves at least partly responsible for helping restore order now.
We trained, we armed. We didn't keep a presence (in the right way) long enough. We needed to help the new system rather than abandon them to their own devices ill-equipped to deal with such an issue.

Diplomacy is not an option. Islam does not have a ruling council or a lead figure to appeal to, so who would we talk to in any case? I know that the enormous majority of Muslims deny that these murderous *** are followers of Islam, but the issue is that IS strongly believe that they are... A strong and recognised leadership figure could influence the issue, but unfortunately such a person does not exist.

The difference this time is that we have been invited in by the Iraqi government who are asking for help. I think our job should be to provide humanitarian assistance and to help contain IS to prevent further spread. The removal job can be done by the Iraqis and the Kurds themselves. If they are to prevent another rising the population need to see that the country is capable of dealing with the issue themselves. It's the way the Nazi movement was destroyed as a coherent entity, we were part of an international effort that culminated in the German people policing themselves in order to avoid such a party ever gaining power again. Sure there are still Nazi scum around, but they are underground, supressed and ineffective. That's what we need to see in Iraq with the insurgency groups. We can help them contain and destroy this rising, but more importantly we can give them the tools and the political willpower to allow them to stamp these things out before our newspapers even hear of them.

Twiggster · Post by **Twiggster** » Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:48 pm

Sorry DDOS - Good post, but would YOU go out there to "provide humanitarian assistance?" When westerners are being kidnapped and beheaded on a weekly basis by these assholes?

Denmark and Germany have committed to sending F16's....but not ground forces. Says a lot.
I am totally against ground force support, having seen a lot of mates killed and maimed in Afghan and twice, fighting Saddam.

Air strikes at specific targets - low risk for our boys. Show this scum that they won't win. It worked in Dresden and Nagasaki.

And arrest and expel all muslim hate preachers in europe.

drsdadsotherson · Post by **drsdadsotherson** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 12:15 am

The humanitarian assistance won't be in the areas where IS hold sway. It would be for refugees in camps etc who have fled from them.
Every civilian casualty from Western attacks runs the risk of creating more hatred and greater numbers of people with a reason to fight the West. The Hollywood solution of using nukes or big bombs to solve everything will only make the situation worse.

Edit:

I'm not suggesting sending in our ground forces at all. I suggest that the Iraqis and Kurds take responsibility there.