The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 2nd October) Well earned draw or two points dropped?

[Ellandback1]

Good Morning. It's Wednesday 2nd October, and here are the latest headlines from Elland Road...


Well earned draw or two points dropped?

Norwich City and Leeds played out a 1-1 draw at Carrow Road in-front of 26,261 rain soaked fans (2,022 Leeds fans). Without the services of Rutter and Summerville, and with Solomon, Ampadu and James injured, Farke's side looked far less menacing (both on paper, and the rain drenched pitch) than they did last season.

In truth, there was little to pick between the teams, especially when taking into account referee Stephen Martin's home bias. The man in black was out of his depth; making decisions based on complaints and crowd reaction rather than what had seen himself.

The Canaries took the lead on 15 minutes when Rodon failed to take the conditions into account, and took Josh Sargent off his feet, deep within the six yard box. With Meslier as useful as a cardboard cut out at saving penalties, there was only going to be one conclusion, however bad the resulting spot kick was!

Throughout the monsoon like conditions and swirling winds, one player shone. Wilfred Gnonto was the standout player on the pitch by a country mile, and almost equalised before the interval, weaving through a packed sea of yellow before striking the post with the keeper stranded.

Eventually his dogged persistence paid off. His through ball put Ramazani clear through on goal, beating Gunn at his far post, fifteen minutes into the second half. The visitors had both the opportunities and impetus to get a winner, until Farke's substitutions snubbed out any chance of three points. Based on the balance of play, a draw was a fair result; but undoubtedly, this would have been a game we would have won last season!





Gaffer widely criticised for substitutions last night

Daniel Farke has been widely criticised by Leeds fans on social media for his substitutions last night. Having just equalised, Leeds looked the side far more likely to claim three points. The shift in momentum was definitely with the visitors, only for the gaffer to freshen things up with Piroe, Bamford and Gelhardt, in place of Gnonto, Ramazani and Joseph.

True, we go to the Stadium of Light on Friday night, but the changes destroyed Leeds chances of a winner when they had the bit between their teeth. Gnonto and Ramazani were by far the most dangerous players on the pitch. The trio brought on may have offered fresh legs, but their lack of pace was never going to worry a well organised Norwich defence.

[mentalcase]

Farke and substitutes ,,let's go back a long long while....this is my main gripe with farke and so it proved yet again

[Tom the Cat]

For a weakened side we were doing fine and looked like winning the match until those awful substitutions put paid to any hope of a winner, unless it was from Norwich. I realise that we have another away match on Friday but is substituting your two best players 12 minutes from the end going to "save their legs" ?

[Ratscoot]

Morning EB et all,

It's definitely 2 points dropped but at least we didn't loose, which after Farkes substitutes I was concerned we would. Overall I'd say we were the better team, more threatening, and with a little more luck could have had 2 or 3 goals.

The Ref stank the place out, in the first 15 mins he was a massive homer and he would have given them a free kick if 2 of our players crashed into each other, after that he was just plain awful, to both teams. I said in our Whats-app group at 30 mins that it's likely someone is getting sent off for 2 yellows and if he does within 10 mins he will equal things up, just surprised it didn't happen.

Had to watch the Norwich feed and god that was painful, every tackle they did was fair and well executed, every one we did was a blatant foul and deserved a minimum of a yellow, they went on for about 10 mins on the Rothwell yellow claiming it should have been a red!! At one point I was convinced they where watching Real or Barc play as some of the flicks and tricks their players where "performing" was just unbelievable

I'm sure someone has said this on here before but Farke substitutions are all pre-planned (apart from injuries, but I'm sure he thinks about that before the game as well), because why the hell would you take off our 2 biggest threats and put on the Chuckle Brothers - minus the to you, to me bit as they can't even pass to each other. Yes, we have a game on Friday and perhaps he didn't want them to be too tired or get injured so give them a couple of days off FFS

[Orange Box]

Well earned point or two dropped? A bit of both really. To say the difficulties we faced with our midfield injuries and playing a team with home crowd support, we did well to get a point. Then when we were on top and looking dangerous to take our most creative players and replace them with the lacklustre bench players (Piroe may get the odd goal but he’s not creative) means two dropped.

I watched Farkes post match interview and he said he took the players off to preserve them for Friday. Huh? This was a game we could have won, 3 pts then work out a draw on Friday, a tally of 4 pts from two difficult away games wouldn’t be bad. But to settle for a point last night means we have to win at the Stadium of Shight. ‘Bird in the hand’ saying comes to mind.

[Orange Box]

Had to watch the Norwich feed and god that was painful,

By that I assume you watched the game on Sky? They were just as bad.

[WhiteRose]

Substitutions will always be pointless because we don’t really use them as a way to adapt the game plan, it usually just feels like the tactics stay the same and it’s just fresh legs so we don’t catch out the opposition or make them think any differently. Maybe once we have James and Solomon back it will be more effective.

[onemoreslogan]

I think Farke's substitutions said more about how he views the Sunderland game than anything. He wants to win there more than Norwich.

[ruttermania]

Norwich are on a run of I think 19 games unbeaten at home so they are a very different proposition from what we played in that mad game last season. In addition they also had the ref basically doing a complete homer as if there had been any equal treatment applied Borja Sainz would have been off as he committed at least 4 offences equivalent to what Leeds players were booked for. This doesn't even take into account the cowardly and contemptible yellow for Gnonto to cover up his blatant failure to award a penalty plus his utter failure to protect him from constant fouling. Given the physical abuse both wingers had endured DF was fully entitled to take the view that he needed to avoid the risk of injury particularly given that we are so light on wingers just at present. I would say that as Sunderland are one team who are likely to have a go that there may be a decent opportunity for our wingers to get the type of opportunity on Friday night that they could thrive on. I agree that the substitutions didn't work out but hindsight is a great thing and to bring on your current leading scorer and Bamford can hardly be considered a negative move and the problem was that we lost control of midfield and started panicking in defence. In all the circumstances it was a decent point and I think will prove to be more than most take from Carrow Road this season.

[weasel]

The substitutions were definitely the right option given that it was our 8th match of the season and not the 45th where the result was all that mattered. How valuable would the potential extra 2 points have been if Largey or Gnonto had got a muscle injury and been out for a few weeks/months given our current injury situation. Wingers need to be protected. They do a lot of sprints and it has been scientifically proven that later on in matches they are far more susceptible to muscle injuries. Yes it killed momentum but so too would losing another winger to the injury list.

As it was we still went with players coming on that could win us the match. We were likely to create less chances but with Bamford, Piroe and Gelhardt on then we probably have a higher percentage of taking a chance. Piroe of late has shown his clinical nature, Gelhardt has shown for us in the past, albeit the distant past, that he can win us games and Bamford - well okay you got me on that one!

It isn't just about protecting players for the Sunderland match but for the next few weeks. Certainly with the wingers we need to wrap them in cotton wool till Soloman and James are back. We could probably have done with taking AO off early too but hopefully he will be fine, at least with central midfielders it is mainly constant running rather than stop start.

[Carrick Dave]

I just posted on the match day thread, I didn't think we looked like getting a draw before Ramazani scored and certainly didn't think we looked like winning it after the subs were made.

Everyone sees it differently I suppose, but until 60 minutes I thought we'd lose.

[Clitheroe White]

Weasel - your new animated GIF avatar, could you stop it moving please...it's a bit annoying (sorry to grumble)

[Clitheroe White]

I think we need to look at last nights result in the context of the 5 games between the international breaks. During the last break EB asked how many points we thought we would / should get from the 5 matches. Positive consensus was around 10-12 points...pragmatic view around 8.

We played strongly against Burnley (0 points)
Cardiff - convincing away win (3 points)
Coventry - very convincing win (3 points)
Norwich - hard fought draw (could equally have been a win or loss) - 1 point
Sunderland...to get to the 2 points a game target we need the win. I predict a draw but if we can pull off a win then I think it's been a good 5 match sequence.

Roll on Friday.

[Ellandback1]

I think Farke's substitutions said more about how he views the Sunderland game than anything. He wants to win there more than Norwich.

Do you think he has a soft spot for Norwich?

[Clitheroe White]

Do you think he has a soft spot for Norwich?

Maybe, but I don't think it affects his desire to win based on how we did against them last season.

[onemoreslogan]

Do you think he has a soft spot for Norwich?

Nah. I mean, he might, but he didn't go easy on the Canaries last season.

Sunderland are top of the table and a win puts us level. A loss puts us 6 back. Psychologically that would be a blow. We need a draw or better there more than two extra points at Norwich.

Given we started the game down a goal taking your chips off the table when he did was not a bad decision.

[GreennWhite]

A good point away from home against a team that is having a very good home record. Add to that our injury list and it makes things more impressive.
A point in the next match will also be a good result, as i know Sunderland will be a bigger test than last nights game.
And no more injuries would do very nicely.

[Ratscoot]

By that I assume you watched the game on Sky? They were just as bad.

Nope mate, on a live stream

[Leeds1000]

Decent point on reflection considering their home record. We were the better team except for the last 10/15mins were it went to crap. Still early days but i haven't seen a side anywhere near us in terms of quality. Only wb bought us down to their level.

[whiteswan]

Weasel - your new animated GIF avatar, could you stop it moving please...it's a bit annoying (sorry to grumble)

I'm with you CW....Weasel, please stop the mad dancer.....you've had much better avatars than that.