Play Off Final - Post Match Discussion

[onemoreslogan]

Farke got a lot right. 90 points is not average and was a hell of an achievement after the summer we had.

The last international break killed us. Gnonto, James, Roberts and Rodon coming back hurt along with Ampadu spent. There was nothing left.

If not for that break we'd have coasted to the autos.

[Clacton White]

Lucky to make the Playoff...

With Marsche I think Leeds would get out of this division , but not the way we wanted.....League one . He was awful , not a clue .

[JoeDenver]

Well said and a voice of sanity.

I don't get the knocking of Farke. Rutter, Summerville and Gnonto failed when the pressure was on. Even against Norwich it took the free kick goal to give us lift off - prior to that Summerville had missed a good chance. Against Leicester and the forwards missed great chances, we then go a goal down and it takes a defender to get us level. Against Blackburn it was same story they didn't show up.

If your big players don't show up there is little that tactics matter. Give me Dan James over any of those mentioned any day of the week.

Hopefully this turns out for the best. Yes we will lose a few players, maybe more than few, but it doesn't have to be a disaster. I hope we keep Gray, out of the players that will get offers he is the one I really want to stay. Rutter could turn out to be anything, losing him could be like losing Cantona but equally I have seen no real progression from him this season after flattering early on. Summerville and Gnonto are matchwinners on their day but seem like flat track bullies. Lose them but keep James and I am happy, we then hopefully have some money to buy another winger. If we could get Jack Clarke I would be delighted.

Let's start at the back and if we lose Messlier well it is meh. Every year it is the same - talking baout potential and forgiving him mistakes. A steady keeper, Alex McCarthy is out of contract, and I feel we are improved in the short term certainly. Full back and who knows what will happen with Firpo. If he stays I am happy, if we get decent money I am happy. Byram is good as back-up would be first choice but for injuries so we need to buy. Wouldn't be averse to trying to get Conor Roberts who may well want to leave Burnley. Ampadu I would expect to stay, Struyjk should be back too. Maybe Cresswell steps up as it is unlikey Rodon returns but who knows maybe we can tempt him.

Midfield and hopefully Gray can go in there. We need goals and creativity there. I Gruev and Kamara stay then that's fine as one can play DM. Ideally a creative midfielder can be signed..

Up front and can we get the best out of Piroe or does Joseph get the chance to show what he can do? Maybe both of them start.

It doesn't need to be a disaster. Are Burnley, Luton and Sheff U as good as Leicester and Southampton? Is any promoted league 1 team as good as Ipswich? There seems nothing to fear so as long as we do okay with incoming signings to replace the leavers then we should be favourites to go up.

Agree with a lot of this re: who comes and goes, but if Farke was reluctant to play certain players and/or make substitutions because of his perceived lack of quality this season, I think he’s in for a rude awakening. We WILL have less quality in the squad next year and yet he will have to exceed the 90 points to ensure automatic promotion. Frankly, I don’t see how he succeeds next season…

[JoeDenver]

Southampton marked Summerville and Georgie out of the game.

We focused down the middle and had the attack so narrow where it was so congested of course we struggle to create.

Even Sky comms said the same, we were narrow.

We also refuse to cross the ball and prefer pass pass pass across the box. Was only when James came on and we had a yolo we resorted to crosses into the box.

The difference in off the ball coaching was clear as it has been so often vs Southampton.

There players no where to be where to move, our passes are always to the players not where the players will be so it makes our build up even slower.

It's Marschesque on the ball in terms of passing moves, isn't any.

Completely agree. We went back to slow, possession-based Marsh-ball in this contest. Gruev was so afraid to play a forward progressive pass in this contest. Kamara was so-so, but thought Gruev really cowered in this one. Loved seeing Rodon’s frustration with him and barreled forward (and nearly scored). That will and desire was missing from him. We lacked Rodon’s will and determination all over the pitch (until James came on)…

[Sean_Nile]

some people thrive when criticised.

Certainly it worked for Russell Martin when Farke criticized him and put him on the bench for the Norwich team.

He should be eternally grateful that Farke made him.

[1964white]

Good to see 62:% of our members have their rational hats on

[morris474]

Once again when it wasn't working farke didn't make changes until it was too late.
He appears to me to be a one trick pony. When the system isn't working he doesn't know what to do. Poor or late use of subs, no change in tactics, and nothing changes.
How long have we been looking for a centre forward who knows how to score goals. Rutter, for all his ball skills cant hit a barn door with a shovel, Summerville is either great or on the missing list.( Today west Yorkshire Police should have him registered as a missing person) . Ditto Piroe, Bamford is injury prone or has one good game and 3 terrible ones.
As a result of this dire performance and staying down, we will sell off all our best players.
Be stuck in the championship for a decade or more, and possibly slip down to the third tier of football again.
Dire stuff but unfortunately , the truth,
the magnificent crowd turned up, but the players didn't bother today, Southampton wanted it much more , and that says it all. Southampton got what they deserved. and we all know the payment for that.
Not looking forward to setting the sat nav for Stevenage and Shrewsbury.
If only the players and the club had the same dedication as our fantastic supporters we wouldn't be looking down the barrel of tier 3 again. And don't expect the 49S to stop it. they wont.
Well that's the good news out of the way then. I'm not going to try to sugar coat a s**t sandwich.

[Jaydog]

Certainly it worked for Russell Martin when Farke criticized him and put him on the bench for the Norwich team.

He should be eternally grateful that Farke made him.

I thought his name was Martin Russell.

[Jaydog]

Ooooh A s**t sandwich. I’m quite hungry

[JoeDenver]

You and I don't always agree....Ah Hem!

But we agree on this. And I brought it up not too long ago that under Farke we attack much like we did under Marsh. It's very narrow with inverted wingers. (Or Winger). The biggest difference in the two systems is the pressing. Or lack thereof under Farke. But it's still about as far away from Bielsa's system as we can get...

Completely agree, Paul. Perhaps because he’s German and had promotion success with Norwich, an English club, he gets a free pass. But tactically, Marsh was a more relentless presser and faster tempo manager. Farke is much more methodical and possession-oriented.

I think I said in that same thread that I’d love to see the heat maps in the attacking third as I’d imagine the two systems are eerily similar.

A similar point in that thread was that a balance of the two styles is necessary to truly find sustained success. Can’t help but wonder if that is behind the rumored interest in Rene Maric.

[The Subhuman]

[Jaydog]

Arseholes

[andrewjohnsmith]

Well said and a voice of sanity.

I don't get the knocking of Farke. Rutter, Summerville and Gnonto failed when the pressure was on. Even against Norwich it took the free kick goal to give us lift off - prior to that Summerville had missed a good chance. Against Leicester and the forwards missed great chances, we then go a goal down and it takes a defender to get us level. Against Blackburn it was same story they didn't show up.

If your big players don't show up there is little that tactics matter. Give me Dan James over any of those mentioned any day of the week.

Hopefully this turns out for the best. Yes we will lose a few players, maybe more than few, but it doesn't have to be a disaster. I hope we keep Gray, out of the players that will get offers he is the one I really want to stay. Rutter could turn out to be anything, losing him could be like losing Cantona but equally I have seen no real progression from him this season after flattering early on. Summerville and Gnonto are matchwinners on their day but seem like flat track bullies. Lose them but keep James and I am happy, we then hopefully have some money to buy another winger. If we could get Jack Clarke I would be delighted.

Let's start at the back and if we lose Messlier well it is meh. Every year it is the same - talking baout potential and forgiving him mistakes. A steady keeper, Alex McCarthy is out of contract, and I feel we are improved in the short term certainly. Full back and who knows what will happen with Firpo. If he stays I am happy, if we get decent money I am happy. Byram is good as back-up would be first choice but for injuries so we need to buy. Wouldn't be averse to trying to get Conor Roberts who may well want to leave Burnley. Ampadu I would expect to stay, Struyjk should be back too. Maybe Cresswell steps up as it is unlikey Rodon returns but who knows maybe we can tempt him.

Midfield and hopefully Gray can go in there. We need goals and creativity there. I Gruev and Kamara stay then that's fine as one can play DM. Ideally a creative midfielder can be signed..

Up front and can we get the best out of Piroe or does Joseph get the chance to show what he can do? Maybe both of them start.

It doesn't need to be a disaster. Are Burnley, Luton and Sheff U as good as Leicester and Southampton? Is any promoted league 1 team as good as Ipswich? There seems nothing to fear so as long as we do okay with incoming signings to replace the leavers then we should be favourites to go up.

Good summary of the squad

I had exactly the same thought on the three relegated teams. Leeds, Leicester, Luton all had better players coming down than Burnley, Luton, Sheff. I don't think we'll have a repeat of 4 dominant teams at the top like we did this tear. That doesn't guarantee us anything though. There's a lot of work to do in transforming the squad over the summer.

[Jimang]

Looking back over the season as a whole, i think Farke has done a great job. He inherited a real mess with all the loan contracts in place, and this undoubtably impacted the first ten games or so. After this however the team gelled well and with just a few games to go were at the top of the table. It was at this point i think some of the key players saw the reality of promotion and bottled it, Farke cant be held responsible for that.
I do think there were some areas that cost us, namely lack of goals coming from midfield and set pieces. In recent games including todays play off final, there is a continued tendency to pass back and across. When Rodon made his charge goalwards, and James tried shooting from distance we immediately looked much more dangerous. Some players, particularly Kamara seem very reluctant to shoot.
The players that remain will hopefully learn from this and be stronger next season, i just hope we dont lose too many of our best players to pay off our debt.

[andrewjohnsmith]

Southampton marked Summerville and Georgie out of the game.

We focused down the middle and had the attack so narrow where it was so congested of course we struggle to create.

Even Sky comms said the same, we were narrow.

We also refuse to cross the ball and prefer pass pass pass across the box. Was only when James came on and we had a yolo we resorted to crosses into the box.

The difference in off the ball coaching was clear as it has been so often vs Southampton.

There players no where to be where to move, our passes are always to the players not where the players will be so it makes our build up even slower.

It's Marschesque on the ball in terms of passing moves, isn't any.

There was a point in the first half when Summerville got the ball/ I should have freeze framed. It seemed like every Southampton player was in the frame, and between Summerville and the goal. I think Rutter got more room in the middle. But he did very little and was off with his passes a few times. Gnonto got more space too. Looked lively. But had very little end product.

[andrewjohnsmith]

And I don't get the knocking of Rutter/Summerville and Gnonto. Geo left it all out there today. You're not on any moral high ground here picking on the players. I think we were hampered today with no striker on the pitch...again

Piroe was very disappointing today. Look at Armstrong's movement off the ball. The difference was night and day. There's quality in Piroe. He's a fantastic finisher and has the goal history to prove it. But I really don't know how we get the best out of him. Maybe Farke's summer rebuild will benefit Piroe.

[andrewjohnsmith]

And I don't get the knocking of Rutter/Summerville and Gnonto. Geo left it all out there today. You're not on any moral high ground here picking on the players. I think we were hampered today with no striker on the pitch...again

Piroe was very disappointing today. Look at Armstrong's movement off the ball. The difference was night and day. There's quality in Piroe. He's a fantastic finisher and has the goal history to prove it. But I really don't know how we get the best out of him. Maybe Farke's summer rebuild will benefit Piroe.

I think Joseph has great potential. I haven't been clamouring for him to start. Until today. It was obvious we needed someone up front to work their defence. Maybe next season weill be his big break through.

[andrewjohnsmith]

Well that was an absolute shocking performance lads, who would have thought we'd lose out in the play offs, aren't we the best team in the league? Weren't we supposed to 'storm the league'?!

The media have been banging on about Leeds so much so that I got sick of hearing it,when it really mattered it looked like we couldn't be Farking bothered for most of the match!

I'd certainly been predicting a riot all season, although it's ironic we stole the song from the band from the actual Premier League team Leicester. Serves us right I suppose, now we can travel down to Leicester to watch some decent football, we got what we deserved ;)

Marching On Down The M1 Together

We beat both the top 2 home and away. I think, on everyone's best day, we were the best team in the league. We dropped points in too many easy games. All we needed to do was win our last 2 home games and we'd be up.

Welcome to the forum.

[andrewjohnsmith]

I know everybody will disagree with me but I truly think the January transfer window cost us promotion...

Poor use of loan market - aside from Rodon

Anthony never played. Spence was a flop. And Roberts wasn't consistently fit enough. We needed better loans.

Agree with January. Also loans. Also the Wales playoff game.

[andrewjohnsmith]

I wonder how we'd have done under Marsh this season?

Unbearable thought