Play Off Final - Post Match Discussion

[White Riot]

Hampered today because we were so narrow even the commentators picked up on it and because we absolutely refused to cross the ball.

Or shoot, or pass and move. Let's just stand still and hope to walk the ball in.

[Cjay]

Or shoot, or pass and move. Let's just stand still and hope to walk the ball in.

He is the anti-Bielsa far as I'm concerned.

Slow, minimal width, risk averse, system actively making it harder for the players not easier, incredibly reliant on individual magic.

Hence why don't understand the support of him but each to there own.

[White Riot]

He is the anti-Bielsa fa's as I'm concerned.

Hence why don't understand the support of him but each to there own.

The plan seemed to be give it to Jimmy, or Georgi and hope for the best.

Jimmy will be off in the summer, and maybe Georgi too? So what then?

If you're relying on individual brilliance then you'd best have quality players. But the quality of our players will deteriorate rapidly if we stay in the Championship for an extended period.

It then becomes harder to get promoted and even harder to stay up as your squad lacks quality.

[Mick Jones shoulder]

He is the antithesis of Bielsa, but remember that didn't work all the time. Personally I think the reliance on some individual brilliance just doesn't work. We just aren't incisive near the opponents goal.

[The Subhuman]

I could run around like a d*ck but it doesn't mean I would have impacted the game.

Piroe is a striker, it is up to others to create chances for him. Create chances and get the ball to Kane and he will score, don't create chances or give him the ball and he has little impact on the game.

I said before the game that if Rutter, Summerville and Gnonto play well then we win. They didn't and we didn't. Defensively and midfield we weren't great but fairly much contained them for the main but we lacked any threat.

Even Farke says Piroe ain't a striker, we didn't buy him to be a striker, Rutter played well today, took a lot of heat, freed up space, drew defenders. Ok he didn't play to his limit but no one does.

You must know the difference between working hard and trying and running around like a headless chicken. Geo did the former today and I suspect it would have been the way he had to play in the way we were set up today.

[BlackHillsPaul]

He is the anti-Bielsa far as I'm concerned.

Slow, minimal width, risk averse, system actively making it harder for the players not easier, incredibly reliant on individual magic.

Hence why don't understand the support of him but each to there own.

You and I don't always agree....Ah Hem!

But we agree on this. And I brought it up not too long ago that under Farke we attack much like we did under Marsh. It's very narrow with inverted wingers. (Or Winger). The biggest difference in the two systems is the pressing. Or lack thereof under Farke. But it's still about as far away from Bielsa's system as we can get...

[Ellandback1]

Or shoot, or pass and move. Let's just stand still and hope to walk the ball in.

I know everybody will disagree with me but I truly think the January transfer window cost us promotion...

[Ellandback1]

We're NOT good in the air, so why were most of the crosses high. We're much better when playing ball to feet.

[Sean_Nile]

Georginio goes for glory and blasts the ball over the bar, when just next to him is Dan James who would be perfect position to put the ball into the back of the net... if Georginio had only made a simple pass the story might have been different.

[The Subhuman]

You and I don't always agree....Ah Hem!

But we agree on this. And I brought it up not too long ago that under Farke we attack much like we did under Marsh. It's very narrow with inverted wingers. (Or Winger). The biggest difference in the two systems is the pressing. Or lack thereof under Farke. But it's still about as far away from Bielsa's system as we can get...

I wonder how we'd have done under Marsh this season?

[The Subhuman]

Georginio goes for glory and blasts the ball over the bar, when just next to him is Dan James who would be perfect position to put the ball into the back of the net... if Georginio had only made a simple pass the story might have been different.

And how many times have we seen the "simple" pass this season/any season go awry...Which is when we get the "don't walk it in just hit it brigade" commenting... Farke pointed out the Rodon to Piroe pass though as the one that was missed

[BlackHillsPaul]

I wonder how we'd have done under Marsh this season?

Lucky to make the Playoff...

[The Subhuman]

Lucky to make the Playoff...

Mid to upper division I reckon. It was a weak Championship this year bar the top 4... I think he could have sneaked 80 plus points, Heckingbottom got 91 last season

[BlackHillsPaul]

I've not heard anyone else mention it but Georginio has not really been the same since Farke told him essentially to tone it down a bit. Sucked a lot of the joy right out of him!

[The Subhuman]

I've not heard anyone else mention it but Georginio has not really been the same since Farke told him essentially to tone it down a bit. Sucked a lot of the joy right out of him!

Mentioned it a couple of weeks ago. It generally gets ridiculed. Apparently Archie fired a f**k off at Farke today, at HT, how true that was, no clue, but it seems Farke was unhappy Gray tried a long progressive ball.

[weasel]

It is of course easy to judge Farke's tactics given we have no idea of how well other tactics would have worked with this group of players. It is easy to say play faster etc but then we likely give the ball away a lot more and leave ourselves open - a bit like it can be said of the Bielsa side when things went wrong and also under Marsch albeit that was more of a hot potato type tactic than us particularly intending to pass at speed.

A lot of criticism of Farke previously has been about how poor his teams were defensively. Well to me it seems like our slow build up play is linked to us being tighter at the back, being in better shape when we lose the ball etc and even Farke's biggest critics, naming no names, can surey agree that for the majority of the season we have looked pretty secure dfensively.

So keeping the shape and playing slowly helps us defensively and for me that is a good thing. Yes I'd like faster attacking play but for the most part this way of playing has worked. It does rely on the forward players individual brilliance a lot but when you give license to 3 players (2 wide players and the 10) to try the individual stuff then you are hoping at least 1 has a good game and then it has a chance of getting you the win, even today a moment of brilliance and we are back in the game.

What we really seem to lack is someone like Pablo to be able to play those slide rule passes that unlock a defence. If we have one of those then it negates any real need to change from the tactics we have or the tempo we play at when attacking. Pass the ball around, create space and then have it fall to the creative player who has all day to play the killer pass and we are a much more potent side, sadly we don't have anyone capable of that in the side. Maybe if we'd got that german fella (the one who had to get a plane home) then wedon't have that problem and maybe if we get someone who can do that this summer then we are suddenly a much better side.

For me Farke's tactics worked pretty well. It isn't like Messlier outperfromed his xg and kept us is loads of games. It isn't like our strikers overperformed on their xg - which was the case for his Norwich sides. Yes I'd like to see a bit more dynamism at times up front, someone shooting from distance or crosses but maybe we simply don't have the players for that. If our crosses are of the same standard as our set piece delivery then is there much point putting in more crosses? If our long range shooting is of the standard of our shooting from distance at free kicks then is there much point shooting if ours odds are something like 1 in 100 of scoring?

So just maybe Farke's tactics actually got more out of these players than other tactics would. Maybe Farke overperformed by some distance because of his tactics. It is easy to say that by doing x instead of y we'd be better but just maybe doing x would have been far worse.

90 points, 3rd in the league, decent defensively and a fair amount of goals scored isn't exactly terrible. Repeat the points total next season and we could be champions.

[White Riot]

I know everybody will disagree with me but I truly think the January transfer window cost us promotion...

You could well be right Matt

Ipswich got Moore in and he got crucial goals for them.

We sent Spence back and got Connor Roberts in. Both had injury issues, but neither was used effectively enough.

Joseph comes in for the Cup and does really well and is then given a few charity minutes. Cresswell as another squad option, not used.

Anthony looked ok when he was given the chance, but hardly used.

Ampadu has been a successful purchase and Rodon a good loan, but if we knew Struijk was out and Cresswell was not gonna be used, why not get a CB and stick Ampadu back in midfield.

Why did we recruit 3 DCMs in Gruev, Kamara and Ampadu? Who out of them is gonna change a game like today for you? None imo. Zero goals from central midfield all season.

Farke over relied on and over played virtually all of our first team.

So the players got tired, stale and predictable.

The biggest failure imo was not using Joseph, and you can't play the not experienced card, cos he flogged Archie Gray to death.

Poor squad management, what options we did have were not used effectively by Farke.

[Orange Box]

Not sure he's a man manager supreme, he's criticized a few players during the season. I think he's a top coach though, the Les Cocker of a good partnership

some people thrive when criticised.

[The Subhuman]

some people thrive when criticised.

True .. if done constructively, and you need to be a good man manager to know who, where and how.

[Broad Ford]

A few days after the win against Norwich I could see Armstrong causing problems on the right and that's exactly where the goal came from.

Victory hinged upon making the most of the few chances that came our way. We didnt take them and the slow buildup also allowed the Saints to organise their defence, which then crowded out our attacking threats.

That Dan James strike late on was the only real threat on goal, beating the keeper and just six inches from salvation. I thought Gnonto had faded near the break and James should have started the second half. With 20 mins to go and the kitchen sink ready for throwing, would Amps into Midfield and Cooper on as CB been the answer to achieving the goal?

To be elated at success and disappointed at failure is to be the child of circumstance. It's time to move on from the dream as reality breaks and look forwards to next season's trials and tribulations of Leeds United.