The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 20th March) Phillips linked with Elland Road return

[DDB220]

No brainer for me. It will be nearer 20 million. The suggestion just because he left he isn’t welcome back is just petty. Any player with an offer from Citeh on the table at a club that just avoided relegation would be stupid to turn it down.

If, and this is the crux of the matter, he is fit etc then he would be a great addition. If we went in for Raphinia who also left would the same rhetoric still apply ??

[DDB220]

It's quite simply a no brainer for me, 40m,30m,20m,10m,5m ......A big fat NO.

I'd have to have a good long think about 'on a free'

I just have, it's a no.

Not worth going into the reasons why, coz you just don't get him, suffice to say, and i did say "without Bert, he'll go backwards, just you watch, learn and see"

Bloody hard life being such a ruddy smartarse tha knows

So for arguments sake - when he got England player of the year in 2021 playing in a different position for the national team than he did under Bielsa that must have been pure luck ??


The key issue is his fitness, a proper pre-season with a coach who believes in his abilities will transform him. Whether he can reach the heights of previous years is the question- if DF wants him and this is what counts- then I am sure he will do his homework. Ampadu and Rodon were journeymen before they joined us.

[1964white]

Looks like 64 and I are the only two that would be happy to have him back under the right conditions...

None of our members would have left Leeds had they been offered the moon by playing for the best team in the world.

Also, Kalvin may have realised, Leeds were on a downward spiral after Bielsa was sacked.

[mentalcase]

No brainer for me. It will be nearer 20 million. The suggestion just because he left he isn’t welcome back is just petty. Any player with an offer from Citeh on the table at a club that just avoided relegation would be stupid to turn it down.

If, and this is the crux of the matter, he is fit etc then he would be a great addition. If we went in for Raphinia who also left would the same rhetoric still apply ??

I'll answer that when EB poses that question in another breakfast debate

[Ellandback1]

So for arguments sake - when he got England player of the year in 2021 playing in a different position for the national team than he did under Bielsa that must have been pure luck ??


The key issue is his fitness, a proper pre-season with a coach who believes in his abilities will transform him. Whether he can reach the heights of previous years is the question- if DF wants him and this is what counts- then I am sure he will do his homework. Ampadu and Rodon were journeymen before they joined us.

There was a massive campaign from Leeds fans to vote for Phillips for England player of the year.

[Cjay]

No brainer for me. It will be nearer 20 million. The suggestion just because he left he isn’t welcome back is just petty. Any player with an offer from Citeh on the table at a club that just avoided relegation would be stupid to turn it down.

If, and this is the crux of the matter, he is fit etc then he would be a great addition. If we went in for Raphinia who also left would the same rhetoric still apply ??

But Raphinha hasn't been on a downward spiral since he left and has performed well at a high level.

Proving both his quality and fitness.

KP even with us missed 45% of the league season through injury in our 2 combined Premier league seasons.

So you are looking at a player whose not been truly injury free for 4/5 years by next summer.

Whose really struggled in what limited appearances he's had for years.

And whose currently on a wage 50% more than we paid anyone even when we were in the Premier League.

If you ignore the fitness, the form, and all the rest.

Unless he takes a significant wage cut probably more than 50% it's not worth the risk imo?

And even at 50% He's one of our top earners I'd imagine as he's reportedly on between 150-170k a week.

For me I don't see how the risk can be justified.

Sentiment aside he still missed 45% of our matches in the league under Bielsa in the Prem.

Did well when fit but we wouldn't be in a position to pay a player likely pushing £100k a week on the off chance he finds the form he last showed years ago and his body which has been fragile for years holds up long enough for it to maybe happen?

Then throw In the £20mil maybe transfer fee

It's a huge financial risk based on form years ago and sentiment imo.

[The Subhuman]

But Raphinha hasn't been on a downward spiral since he left and has performed well at a high level.

Proving both his quality and fitness.

KP even with us missed 45% of the league season through injury in our 2 combined Premier league seasons.

So you are looking at a player whose not been truly injury free for 4/5 years by next summer.

Whose really struggled in what limited appearances he's had for years.

And whose currently on a wage 50% more than we paid anyone even when we were in the Premier League.

If you ignore the fitness, the form, and all the rest.

Unless he takes a significant wage cut probably more than 50% it's not worth the risk imo?

And even at 50% He's one of our top earners I'd imagine as he's reportedly on between 150-170k a week.

For me I don't see how the risk can be justified.

Sentiment aside he still missed 45% of our matches in the league under Bielsa in the Prem.

Did well when fit but we wouldn't be in a position to pay a player likely pushing £100k a week on the off chance he finds the form he last showed years ago and his body which has been fragile for years holds up long enough for it to maybe happen?

Then throw In the £20mil maybe transfer fee

It's a huge financial risk based on form years ago and sentiment imo.

But he might have been if Barca ha stuck him on the bench for 2 years.

[mentalcase]

Raphina was good enough to get in the Barca side.
Phillips was nowhere near good enough to get in Moan citys side.

[Cjay]

But he might have been if Barca ha stuck him on the bench for 2 years.

But they didn't

Because he was good enough and crucially fit enough.

Just from a business point of view we would be talking tens of millions of pounds (and even with a significant wage cut a near top earner) based on form years ago and a body that even in his 2 seasons with us in the Premier only was fit enough for roughly 60% of the starts over 2 years.

[Jaydog]

So for arguments sake - when he got England player of the year in 2021 playing in a different position for the national team than he did under Bielsa that must have been pure luck ??


The key issue is his fitness, a proper pre-season with a coach who believes in his abilities will transform him. Whether he can reach the heights of previous years is the question- if DF wants him and this is what counts- then I am sure he will do his homework. Ampadu and Rodon were journeymen before they joined us.

No idea how he got that accolade tbh.
He was ok in a few games but subsequent events have told me that was massively down to Declan Rice.
He is on a totally different level to Kalvin.
He’s always struck me as someone who hasn’t made the most of his ability bar under Bielsa. His remarks about Pep after leaving City on loan were totally unprofessional. Would he come back as the big I am?

[The Subhuman]

But they didn't

Because he was good enough and crucially fit enough.

Just from a business point of view we would be talking tens of millions of pounds (and even with a significant wage cut a near top earner) based on form years ago and a body that even in his 2 seasons with us in the Premier only was fit enough for roughly 60% of the starts over 2 years.

He was bought to start, Kalvin was bought to sit behind Rhodri and to stop anyone else getting him....

[Jaydog]

None of our members would have left Leeds had they been offered the moon by playing for the best team in the world.

Also, Kalvin may have realised, Leeds were on a downward spiral after Bielsa was sacked.

It’s not about that for me as it’s more about who would I prefer if we get to the PL. Ampadu or Kalvin in the DM role. Fairly sure that’s where Ampadu would be. We’d have money to hopefully secure Rodon & A N Other plus Pascal. When you watch some of Ampadu’s runs in to midfield and his range of passing then that’s clearly where he’ll be most effective.
Add in the fact that he can drop back in to the CB role.
Maybe Kalvin can come back as an understudy.

[Cjay]

He was bought to start, Kalvin was bought to sit behind Rhodri and to stop anyone else getting him....

I agree.

I said at the time it made no sense and you are likely right in what you say.

Doesn't change his fitness record over multiple seasons and that includes the 3 months he missed at City 1st season.

Doesn't change that he has been awful at West Ham, likely not match fit or sharp and that in itself takes time, months probably if it happens at all and if his body holds up long enough.

And doesnt change that City won't let him go cheap, you would be looking at somewhere pushing £25mil from my quick fag packet calculation, and that is assuming Man City are prepared to just break even on FFP on him.

It's more if they want any kind of profit which they may because of the ffp scrutiny they are under.

And then his reported £150,000+ wages.

So even if he's willing a 50% deduction that's another £4mil a year and one of our top earners.

I just don't see how anyone can think its a worthwhile risk.

[BlackHillsPaul]

As a Leeds fan from the USA perhaps I'm a bit more detached. But I've said all along that Kalvin Phillips is overrated. He thrived under one Manager's very specific role for him. And he's had a couple decent performances for England. (Surrounded by better players). He's been injury prone for several seasons now and his play has been shite since Bielsa got fired. Sorry, but it's a NO for me. I wish him luck elsewhere.

[Kennyb41]

So for arguments sake - when he got England player of the year in 2021 playing in a different position for the national team than he did under Bielsa that must have been pure luck ??


The key issue is his fitness, a proper pre-season with a coach who believes in his abilities will transform him. Whether he can reach the heights of previous years is the question- if DF wants him and this is what counts- then I am sure he will do his homework. Ampadu and Rodon were journeymen before they joined us.

I think you could be right about 'luck' it certainly played a part.

He still had Bert in him.
Englands opponents were shite.
Good players in front of him.
Hardly any pressure put on him from the weak opponents, all the time in the world to distribute
Was it Rice he paired up with in the 4-2-3-1...H'mmm that's lucky innit
Flying international wingbacks we have.

Yes i'd say he was quite lucky to have had all that.

And i think i said at the time, what a prick Southgate is to not realise he could squash teams with KP in a 4-1-4-1 with.....

--------------------KP
Saka - Bellingham - Anyone - Foden
------------------Kane

[BobHirst]

None of our members would have left Leeds had they been offered the moon by playing for the best team in the world.

Also, Kalvin may have realised, Leeds were on a downward spiral after Bielsa was sacked.

99.99% of us would have done the same thing. I would never criticize him for doing that. However he never really played at City and now that he is playing he looks very average at best. So, no thank you Kalvin.

[weasel]

I think if we were talking about any other player with a similar track record to KP but that hadn't have played for Leeds then I doubt anyone would be interested in signing him. An injury prone player, that looks to be on the decline, has hardly played for two years, albeit it was Man City, big wages and not getting any younger. For a fee that would likely be upwards of £10m and you would hope a good scout could find another player for cheaper that would be a better deal for us.

So let's take it that he'd come for £10m and drop his wages to £50k per week - we'd still be getting a player who was injury prone and only really excelled for one manager (ignore the England player of the season sh*te cos as ER pointed out that was a massively rigged vote by Leeds fans who rigged several other votes aroudn that time too). It's a gamble of a signing. The alternative is to look for a younger player with their career ahead of them. Target someone who has yet to prove themselves but looks proomising and has no real injury record. They'll be on lower wages too. You are also not having to make them promises about how many matches they will start.

The fact he left the club has no bearing on the decision in fact the sentimentality factor, him being a fan of the club, can handle the pressur eof playing for the club etc would be factors in favour of signing him but wouldn't be enough to make me sign him.

[andrewjohnsmith]

Looks like 64 and I are the only two that would be happy to have him back under the right conditions...

I'd have him back too. I don't attach any blame to him going to City. Leeds were only too happy to get the money so Jesse Marsch could build his own team.

He's played well at Leeds and played well for England. He was good enough for Pep to spend over 40 million on, even if things didn't work out.

As far as our midfield goes, I think Ampadu is a lock in if he doesn't have to play defense. I think we'll need upgrades on Kamara and Gruev if we go up. They both do a decent job, but I think KP is a better player.

There's no way Citeh should hope to get their money back. He was an England international when they bought him. Now he's not. I think his value should be more around the mid 20's.

And of course, I think the newspaper talk is just all made up. Easy story to write.

[Cjay]

All talk of Man City selling.

He has a contract till 2028.

West Ham have paid a loan fee of £4-6mil according to the media and are covering some of his wages which are well over £100k.

West Ham discussed a transfer option but decided against it when Man City wanted £40mil

They aren't selling for 50% less 6 months later.

It's a non starter

[andrewjohnsmith]

All talk of Man City selling.

He has a contract till 2028.

West Ham have paid a loan fee of £4-6mil according to the media and are covering some of his wages which are well over £100k.

West Ham discussed a transfer option but decided against it when Man City wanted £40mil

They aren't selling for 50% less 6 months later.

It's a non starter

Highly unlikely they'll keep him. Unless they sell, it would likely be another loan next season.

I'd say his value has dropped since he went to West Ham. In reality, there isn't a club in the world that would pay more than 25m right now. There would have to be a spectacular resurgence in the remaining games. He hasn't been starting games since the red card.

So, Citeh will be left with 2 choices. Drop their price or keep sending him out on loan. Maybe they have FFP issues meaning they can't drop his price. Maybe they'll send him out on loan again next season and hope that he proves himself again. That way getting the price they want in 2025.