Newcastle Utd 0-0 Leeds Utd Post Match Debate.

[BlackHillsPaul]

Happy New Year btw Paul. You're Eastern Time?

Happy New Year Andrew!! I'm in the Mountain Time Zone but I headed for bed early last night. Getting old sucks!!

[1964white]

I've just watched the whole match again on LUTV without all the emotion/stress when watching Leeds live.

The first-half plusses outnumbered the second-half plus moments, with the minuses far more prevalent in the second-half

We actually started well, in fact we were comfortable in the first 45 minutes.

Meslier & Adams were immense throughout the whole game.

We kept their best player this season, Almiron relatively quiet.

Joelinton & Wilson should have been red carded for a couple of raised arm incidents on Roca & Meslier.

Bruno Guimarães blatant dive to win a penalty at the death was ludicrous, as he & colleagues totally lost their discipline by the end of the game.

A deserved point for Leeds imo!

[The Fish]

Haven't read all the thread but a quick scan says you're; happy with the point, disappointed in the Ref, disappointed with your own team.

From a Newcastle perspective, I thought we created some good opportunities but literally nobody had on their shooting boots. Wood was a pest, but clearly isn't the standard we need if we want to get into Europe. I thought the ref didn't have a handle on the game at all. Probably our worst performance in a long time, and relieved it didn't culminate in a loss. Also think Howe got the starting line up wrong. ASM could have caused havoc down your right and I'm not sure the same will be true tonight against Arsenal. I understand not rushing Wilson back, but ASM should be raring to go.

Turns out it wasn't a disastrous result as a lot of the teams at the top of the table dropped points too. It's mental to think that we're 17 games into the season, and we've only lost 1 game. We've gone from one of the worst defences in the league, to the best. 9 clean sheets, and only 11 conceded. Our two best strikers have only played 53% and 16% of the time respectively and yet we've still scored 32 goals.

I'm not coming on here to gloat or owt. I'm just amazed by the job Howe has done. Yes we've spent some money, but I think it's fair to say that the impact Howe has had on the players who were here before the takeover is remarkable. Look at Joelinton, £40m flop striker turned into an absolute giant in midfield, Almiron, Willock, Longstaff, Krafth, Schar... They've all dreamaticaly improved and that's down to Howe. If the Manager of the Year was by calendar, rather than season, Howe would surely, surely, have to be the winner.

Anyway, Hope everyone who travelled to St James' had a good time. Spotted earlier in the thread that some scamp got into the home end, it's good to see that it was taken in good spirits by those around him.

[weasel]

I'm not coming on here to gloat or owt. I'm just amazed by the job Howe has done. Yes we've spent some money, but I think it's fair to say that the impact Howe has had on the players who were here before the takeover is remarkable. Look at Joelinton, £40m flop striker turned into an absolute giant in midfield, Almiron, Willock, Longstaff, Krafth, Schar... They've all dreamaticaly improved and that's down to Howe. If the Manager of the Year was by calendar, rather than season, Howe would surely, surely, have to be the winner.

That for me is the biggest reason for Newcastle's success rather than the money spent. Yes Bruno has been an amazing signing but the majority of the team is the same team that was in place prior to Howe arriving.

A good manager improves the players he has, gets more out of them whether that is by giving them confidence in themselves or playing tactics that improves them and the team.

[1964white]

Haven't read all the thread but a quick scan says you're; happy with the point, disappointed in the Ref, disappointed with your own team.

From a Newcastle perspective, I thought we created some good opportunities but literally nobody had on their shooting boots. Wood was a pest, but clearly isn't the standard we need if we want to get into Europe. I thought the ref didn't have a handle on the game at all. Probably our worst performance in a long time, and relieved it didn't culminate in a loss. Also think Howe got the starting line up wrong. ASM could have caused havoc down your right and I'm not sure the same will be true tonight against Arsenal. I understand not rushing Wilson back, but ASM should be raring to go.

Turns out it wasn't a disastrous result as a lot of the teams at the top of the table dropped points too. It's mental to think that we're 17 games into the season, and we've only lost 1 game. We've gone from one of the worst defences in the league, to the best. 9 clean sheets, and only 11 conceded. Our two best strikers have only played 53% and 16% of the time respectively and yet we've still scored 32 goals.

I'm not coming on here to gloat or owt. I'm just amazed by the job Howe has done. Yes we've spent some money, but I think it's fair to say that the impact Howe has had on the players who were here before the takeover is remarkable. Look at Joelinton, £40m flop striker turned into an absolute giant in midfield, Almiron, Willock, Longstaff, Krafth, Schar... They've all dreamaticaly improved and that's down to Howe. If the Manager of the Year was by calendar, rather than season, Howe would surely, surely, have to be the winner.

Anyway, Hope everyone who travelled to St James' had a good time. Spotted earlier in the thread that some scamp got into the home end, it's good to see that it was taken in good spirits by those around him.

You must be over the moon with the progress Newcastle have achieved, Fish.

To think you were worse off than Leeds, with relegation looking likely a year ago.

You have moved forward significantly, whilst we have stagnated.

[The Fish]

You must be over the moon with the progress Newcastle have achieved, Fish.

To think you were worse off than Leeds, with relegation looking likely a year ago.

You have moved forward significantly, whilst we have stagnated.

We have, and while Howe and the players deserve tonnes of credit, you cannot stick the uncomfortable truth away in a box somewhere. Sure Bruno, Botman, Pope could possibly have been signed under the old regime, but from the outside we weren't attractive, hell even from the inside it was pretty toxic. Thousands had had enough and were walking away from the thing that bore the name of the club we loved, but wasn't that thing anymore. New owners, new hope, new Newcastle.

I don't mean to come across condescending or owt and I get your frustration, but from the outside you still seem a good Premier League side. You're missing a couple of star quality players, because clubs with bags and bags of cash came along and poached them. When you replace Phillips and Raphinha properly, I'm sure you'll settle back into your rhythm. Knowing Leeds, you've probably got a couple of young lads on the cusp of the first team, ready to kick on.

You came to an in form Newcastle and Leeds-ed your way to a point. Carry that commitment into other games against less stingy defence and I've no doubt you'll win more than you lose. I honestly don't know enough about Marsch, but he seems to be a pretty genuine bloke.

[The Subhuman]

You must be over the moon with the progress Newcastle have achieved, Fish.

To think you were worse off than Leeds, with relegation looking likely a year ago.

You have moved forward significantly, whilst we have stagnated.

We haven't stagnated, we've added 7 - 9 first teamers...

[1964white]

We haven't stagnated, we've added 7 - 9 first teamers...

Bottom end of the market signings is all we can afford.

After selling Phillips & Raphinha & loaning out James (who was a first team player last season), plus the fact we'd lost Dallas & Bamford for much of this campaign & with certain players ageing & coming to the end of their Leeds career, we needed to bring in new recruitments.

Truth is, as things stand now, we haven't moved forward in the last two seasons!

New players require time to gel, hopefully we'll see some progression in the next year or so.

[The Fish]

Think Brentford and Brighton have shown there are still bargains to be had. Mitoma and Caicedo were both less than £5m, Toney, MBuemo and Norgaard were around that as well.

Just shows there's quality out there at pre-insanity prices.

[1964white]

Think Brentford and Brighton have shown there are still bargains to be had. Mitoma and Caicedo were both less than £5m, Toney, MBuemo and Norgaard were around that as well.

Just shows there's quality out there at pre-insanity prices.

Brighton & Brentford are notorious for snapping up bargains & integrating them into their regular first XI.

We've found three ourselves in Meslier, Struijk & Gnonto.

[Chilli D]

Brighton & Brentford are notorious for snapping up bargains & integrating them into their regular first XI.

We've found three ourselves in Meslier, Struijk & Gnonto.

What about Summerville 64?

[1964white]

What about Summerville 64?

Yes, Cry is another one, Chilli.

[Bongo1874]

Won't go down , the thing I question is what is the ambition at Leeds is it to avoid relegation every year , or do they want a piece of Europe etc which I believe they can achieve, is marsch an improvement on the previous manager sorry but I don't think so , he's not getting the same out them.

[1964white]

Won't go down , the thing I question is what is the ambition at Leeds is it to avoid relegation every year , or do they want a piece of Europe etc which I believe they can achieve, is marsch an improvement on the previous manager sorry but I don't think so , he's not getting the same out them.

Sadly, that is exactly our ambition, the PL is where the money is, survival is essential!

I've said it many times, we haven't got a squad in depth to cope with domestic cups, let alone thinking about Europe right now.

[White Riot]

Sadly, that is exactly our ambition, the PL is where the money is, survival is essential!

I've said it many times, we haven't got a squad in depth to cope with domestic cups, let alone thinking about Europe right now.

Yep, we barely have a squad capable of keeping us up, so forget Radz's wet dreams about Europe and top half of the table. He got an EPL reality check last season, and that's helped him to keep his daft phone in his pocket.

If you remember back a few years, when we imploded towards the end of Bielsa's first season in charge, even he said that this was as far as he could take that bunch of players.

He was wrong, but the quality ain't there to sustain our presence at the top level. Yet we're still seeing Ayling, Forshaw, Cooper, Klich, Harrison, etc making regular first team appearances.

Dallas and Bamford would also be first names on the team sheet, but they're injured.

So our squad has not evolved quickly enough and well enough for progression, we're a drowning man trying to tread water.

[1964white]

Yep, we barely have a squad capable of keeping us up, so forget Radz's wet dreams about Europe and top half of the table. He got an EPL reality check last season, and that's helped him to keep his daft phone in his pocket.

If you remember back a few years, when we imploded towards the end of Bielsa's first season in charge, even he said that this was as far as he could take that bunch of players.

He was wrong, but the quality ain't there to sustain our presence at the top level. Yet we're still seeing Ayling, Forshaw, Cooper, Klich, Harrison, etc making regular first team appearances.

Dallas and Bamford would also be first names on the team sheet, but they're injured.

So our squad has not evolved quickly enough and well enough for progression, we're a drowning man trying to tread water.

I suspect other promoted clubs who were in their third season plus such as Brighton, Villa, Newcastle, etc, weren't still fielding seven of their promotion players in their first team, mind you we need back-up players so if our club are not prepared to replace them, we'd be struggling even more without them.

Our official first XI is gradually changing, but it has been a slow process!

[andrewjohnsmith]

I suspect other promoted clubs who were in their third season plus such as Brighton, Villa, Newcastle, etc, weren't still fielding seven of their promotion players in their first team, mind you we need back-up players so if our club are not prepared to replace them, we'd be struggling even more without them.

Our official first XI is gradually changing, but it has been a slow process!

Phil Hay was making an interesting comment about how you can only rely on 10-20 million signings for so long. It will keep you dancing around the bottom half of the table and always in the danger zone. He mentioned Southampton as the example. Eventually - he said - you have to start making those 30 million + signings.

The interesting point you make is on our continued reliance on championship players. And they're not just a championship squad that we bought to get promoted. They were players who'd finished in the bottom half of the championship before Bielsa. Cooper, Dallas, Forshaw, Klich, Ayling. (others like Harrison, Bamford, Meslier, Strujik don't count so much because they were part of the next generation.

Anyway, the reason we still rely on the 5 mentioned is because a lot of the new signings haven't worked. Llorente should have been our starting center back. Fripo should have been the left back we were looking for. Rasmus and Roca have been inconsistent. And the youngsters we invested in 3 years ago haven't progressed quickly enough.

[Bongo1874]

Sadly, that is exactly our ambition, the PL is where the money is, survival is essential!

I've said it many times, we haven't got a squad in depth to cope with domestic cups, let alone thinking about Europe right now.

Disagree,when you consider Fulham,Brentford, Brighton, they aren't bigger clubs than Leeds just run better , and the squad ain't the problem.

[The Fish]

From the outside, it seems like you're just in the season after selling two star players who've not yet been properly replaced. Honestly? Seems like poor planning on your boardroom/management's behalf. It was pretty obvious that Phillips and Raphinha would attract big bids, it would have made sense to have replacements lined up. Or, using those monies to change the make up of your squad, replace them in the aggregate?

Don't think you're in any real danger of going down. Every team below you + Leicester are in trouble for disparate reasons. Either decent sides failing to click like West Ham or Wolves, or simply poor teams like Bournemouth, Southampton and Forest. Everton are both poorly run and really unbalanced. So, if you are to stay up, I'd expect you to try and sign someone to better control the ball in the centre and a striker who doesn't get injured quite so much. (You can have Wood if you like).

[Jaydog]

I’d chop Wood up. Only thing to do with Wood is chop it up & put it in a log burner. He’d probably miss the door though