The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Monday 16th November) Keown rips into Bielsa ahead of Arsenal game

[Ellandback1]

Good Morning. Its Monday 16th November, and here are the latest headlines from Elland Road...


Keown rips into Bielsa ahead of Arsenal game

During a recent interview with TalkSport, former Arsenal and England defender Martin Keown has ripped into the tactical methods of Marcelo Bielsa, claiming if he was at the club, he would be questioning Bielsa's approach claiming the Argentine's approach to games has proved costly for the Whites.

If I was being asked to do that, I’d have to sit down with the boss after the game against Palace and say I’m not really sure I completely believe in this because I’m out on my feet here – as the Leeds players were in that match. Palace just had a low block as Leicester did the week before and had good players at the top of the team with pace, like Vardy the week before. They were broken down. It was fascinating to commentate on and fascinating to watch but, actually, it wasn’t a winning formula.

Guardiola is a very humble man because he looks at the genius and he sees Bielsa’s quality – he’s got an incredible mind for football – but if we link it to success, Guardiola has won an incredible amount of trophies. “He’s got the balance right and I don’t think Leeds have got the right balance. I don’t know if there has to be a plan B, I think it’s a case of needing a bit more restraint.

He’s had 70-odd matches there and the players are well-drilled and know exactly what he wants. “I don’t know if the players can sustain it, what I am seeing is their two central defenders being exposed. “If you’re going man-for-man all over the pitch, there’ll eventually be someone in a one-vs-one situation and they’re not comfortable with that. Vardy and Zaha both did it for them

Orta outlines long term ambition

Leeds Director of Football Victor Orta has been talking to the BBC about his long term ambitions; and no surprises, it involves Leeds Utd. The excitable Spaniard turned down the advances of Bundesliga side RB Leipzig and Serie A giants Roma in the Summer, and also made no secret of his desire to take the Whites to the next level when they finally broke their 16 year hoodoo less than six months ago! Orta has big plans for Leeds, which hopefully will lead to European football, but don't expect it to happen overnight.

We have ambition in the good sense, with the idea to build this step by step. Perhaps not the first year, perhaps not the second year, perhaps not in the third year, but my ambition is for Leeds United to play European football again.

When I talk to players to convince them to join Leeds United, I always say the same. We’re not making anything new, I don’t want to put where Leeds United was, it’s nothing new for them to play in European competitions. “This is my goal but with realism and ambition, step by step.

As Leeds supporters would attest, it feels typical of the club that a year of such achievement is yet to be properly celebrated by fans and players alike.

Football is the fans and football is for the people. Who creates this business, this relationship, is the fans. Who creates all these things, it’s the fans’ love of the game. “This industry is created by the fans, it is the only reality. We have to put in the same level as the fans.

Leeds needs Leeds United but Leeds United needs Leeds more than anything. We need to go back to society and what they give to us because they’re the reason I stay in my job, I can only be grateful. I can only make the best for me with mistakes, with failure, with success.

You work for me and my group but I work to try and bring this club to its real position and make a lot of people happy, that is the fans.
Now is my fourth season, the second club that I have more years now in my life, this is my real pride, I can sew myself in the ideas on the pitch, in my ideas outside the pitch.

Leeds United are my life. Not only in terms of professionally, but in terms of proper life.

Joachim Low salutes Robin Koch display in new position

Germany Manager Joachim Low heaped praise on Leeds Utd's Robin Koch after his display in their 3-1 win over the Ukraine on Saturday evening. Koch was making only his second start for Germany, sixth in total. He was asked to play the role of defensive midfielder in order to break down Ukraine's passing in the final third, and the 24yo did not disappoint!

In defence, we tried to break down Ukraine’s passing channels early, which is why we tested Robin Koch in the middle. He did a good job.

With Phillips out of action, are you surprised that Bielsa has not opted to replace him with Koch?

[Byebyegeegee]

I don’t think being taken from mid table, Championship also rans to promotion within 2 years, playing fabulous football can be construed as “proving costly”. But, of course, Keown is basing his observations on just 2 games out of the 100 or so that Leeds have played since Bielsa arrived, 90% of which we’ve dominated and been the better team.

The comparison with Guardiola too is misleading. I personally don’t believe he could have achieved what Bielsa has with the same group of players. Guardiola has had the luxury of being able to spend money like water and assemble the best players in the world, just send them out to play knowing, that quality wise they will be more than a match for any team. Whereas, as we all know, Bielsa has, until recently, had to work with lower mid table Championship quality players and improve them vastly, individually and make them greater than the sum of their parts as a team. No comparison really Mr Keown is there?

[1964white]

I don’t think being taken from mid table, Championship also rans to promotion within 2 years, playing fabulous football can be construed as “proving costly”. But, of course, Keown is basing his observations on just 2 games out of the 100 or so that Leeds have played since Bielsa arrived, 90% of which we’ve dominated and been the better team.

The comparison with Guardiola too is misleading. I personally don’t believe he could have achieved what Bielsa has with the same group of players. Guardiola has had the luxury of being able to spend money like water and assemble the best players in the world, just send them out to play knowing, that quality wise they will be more than a match for any team. Whereas, as we all know, Bielsa has, until recently, had to work with lower mid table Championship quality players and improve them vastly, individually and make them greater than the sum of their parts as a team. No comparison really Mr Keown is there?

Couldn't have worded it better Byebye

I may use this post on another Leeds form if you don't mind mate

[1964white]

I hope Koch is rested for the next Germany game

[1964white]

Onto the England game

They ought to introduce a new stat in the 'match stats' - How many times will Jack fall over? I counted 3 girly falls by half-time.

He reminds me of the likes of Robinson (when we were in league one) Saiz & McCormack in the championship, luxury players that want all the plaudits but achieve very little in their careers

[Irish Ian]

Keown stating the obvious. We KNOW we arent a man for man match right across the park in this league. Half our team cost less than what Arsenal saved on sacking their non playing staff during lockdown.

But Bielsa wants to reward those who pay hard earned coin with exciting football not the turgid low risk low return mind numbing fare served up for so long now it is accepted as normal.

Whats next is when Marcello dors tweak things is that muppets like Keown will probably claim the credit...

[Ellandback1]

Onto the England game

They ought to introduce a new stat in the 'match stats' - How many times will Jack fall over? I counted 3 girly falls by half-time.

He reminds me of the likes of Robinson (when we were in league one) Saiz & McCormack in the championship, luxury players that want all the plaudits but achieve very little in their careers

Thats a bit unfair telling Paul Robinson not to dive!!!



He was the keeper!!!

[Ellandback1]

Who remembers this.

Michael Brown whacks the ball at Keown from 40 yards

[Byebyegeegee]

Couldn't have worded it better Byebye

I may use this post on another Leeds form if you don't mind mate

No probs 64. Punctuation a bit awry as I’ve read it back, but that was never my strong suit.

Which forum 64 as a matter of interest?

[1964white]

No probs 64. Punctuation a bit awry as I’ve read it back, but that was never my strong suit.

Which forum 64 as a matter of interest?

NOT606 mate

[Cjay]

Keown isnt saying anything that hadnt crossed our minds imo.

At some point 1v1 we are going to have a situation where we are out matched.

Its not a particularly controversial thing to say imo.

He isnt wrong in that respect.

Is it something we need to change? Not against the better sides oddly, sides who will attack and come at us but vs the boring counter sides imo yes we do.

Zaha vs Ayling was a total mismatch, Barnes to, you cant leave lesser players 1v1 against superior dribblers who thrive in 1v1 situations.

Against counter attacking sides we are at a disadvantage if we go 1v1.

[1964white]

Radrizzani wins the 3.40 race at Wolverhampton @ 15/2

Radrizzani out of the Highbank Stud winning on his debut

Highbank have also produced Bielsa - won four out of ten races & Pablo Hernandez - lost both his races so far

[Lumiukko]

Keown: Have very little time for him but to be fair he hardly ripped into Bielsa or told us something we didn't know regards the last couple of games. Don't agree with the comments about Guardiola and Bielsa as Pep would've struggled with the players. And Bielsa knows that football is for he fans, just like...

Orta: ...he seems genuinely Leeds through and through. Though he made some transfer mistakes, he comes across as a great chap and certainly gets "Leeds United" and "Leeds".

And lastly Koch: Watched the game and he played very well. Was often not on the ball so much as Germany played via the wings a lot, but when he did get on the ball he was very reliable, and played a great chip over the Ukraine defence for the assist to the assist in the second goal. Looks like he could do a job for us in that DM position should we find we need him there for whatever reason.

[Smudge3920]

Keown rips into Bielsa ahead of Arsenal game
The Gooners next, and surprise surprise an ex Gooner with something to say... Well we are Leeds United, fully expected all the attention these people love to shower upon us... All it says is just how worried they are now we are back...MOT...(Interesting they do not feel the need to comment on the rest of the league teams in the lower half dontchya think )

Orta outlines long term ambition
First to hold my hand up, when Victor first came to us from "Boro" I was not happy, and did make my feelings known... But I loved to be proved wrong, and Victor has proved me wrong in spades...Long may it continue.

Joachim Low salutes Robin Koch display in new position
Did not see the game, but from all I have read he was intricate to the win...Things will settle down within the team and Robin is going to be massive.

[weasel]

Keown basing his opinion on a very small sample size. Don't forget that this is essentially the same team as last season and is a team that conceded 10 goals in 4 championship matches including 3 to Cardiff and 4 to Birmingham so there is always the capability to have a rocky patch and conceded goals - however over the course of the season those same players had the best defence on the championship in terms of goals conceded.

Bielsa knows that his way of playing consistently gets far more out of the 11 players at his disposal than any other formation or way of playing would. Would anyone really think that we'd be doing better this season if this team was lining up in a 442 formation under a different manager? Recently on the Leicester City forum they posted the question before the Leeds match over who would get into the best starting XI if you combined the 2 sets of players. I doubt any of the Leeds players would have made the starting line-up or at most only a couple so the only reason we were favourites to win that game was because of how much Bielsa gets out of the players and how the team is so much stronger than the 11 individual players.

And why are people suggesting Koch should have been playing defensive midfield in the last couple of games? So if Koch moved into def mid how are stronger given that it would have meant Struyk having to then play centreback? Fair enough move Koch into defensive midfield if we had a fully fit Cooper and Llorente.

[Sara]

Not a lot to add to what's been said, except that I'm a fan of Orta, and very encouraged by his vision for Leeds, and his sentiments about football.

Keown can do one.

[Carrick Dave]

Not a lot to add to what's been said, except that I'm a fan of Orta, and very encouraged by his vision for Leeds, and his sentiments about football.

Keown can do one.

Excellent- this.

[rab_rant]

Who remembers this.

Michael Brown whacks the ball at Keown from 40 yards

That ball from Brown must have rattled Keown's brains and as a pundit he is just being spiteful and trying to give a psychological advantage to arsenal

Sent from my Redmi Note 8 Pro using Tapatalk

[HarryofOz]

My dictionary has a very different definition of the phrase 'rips into'.