United States of Ameristan

[Leeds1000]

I don't know about anyone else but I turned the TV on this morning and the sight of Air Force One flying away from Washington to Florida with Trump aboard brought a huge smile and sigh of relief from me.
Please do a good job Mr. President.

Back to the status quo it is then Bob.

[Ron Swanson]

I've been subjected to plenty of liberal left censorialness (if that's a word) over the last four years for voting leave, so I know what you mean. Self-righteousness is never an appealing trait.

I'm sort of divided, because racism, sexism, homophobia etc are shitty things which should be opposed, but they are causes which have become separated from traditional working class politics, and are often pushed by the patronisingly woke. No one in mainstream politics has really represented working class interests since the 80s. It's really just divide and conquer now, with the various causes of identity politics competing for attention.

I will speak against sexism, or whatever, when I see it, but it's certainly not my intention to come from the place of being some kind of social justice warrior. I accept that that may not be immediately obvious, or even a distinction you'd choose to recognise. Ironically, on Waccoe I get castigated for supposedly being a right wing sympathiser, as I mostly find myself arguing from a libertarian viewpoint against the sort of paternalism which I suspect you dislike.

I find people who aren’t libertarian a bit weird.

Can’t stand authoritarianism. Most people love it, it seems.

[BobHirst]

Back to the status quo it is then Bob.

Hopefully back to sanity and decency. For me that would be a positive, how about you?

[Leeds1000]

Hopefully back to sanity and decency. For me that would be a positive, how about you?

Two words that left me at birth i think Bob. 74m people can't be wrong can they? And if we are looking for c**ks of the school in the world, then nothing more feared than a western despot looking to keep things ticking over without battle with access to a big red button? I wish you well on your quest for stability. Politicians in the UK seem to be happy, so i guess that makes me happy too.

[hector]

[BobHirst]

Two words that left me at birth i think Bob. 74m people can't be wrong can they? And if we are looking for c**ks of the school in the world, then nothing more feared than a western despot looking to keep things ticking over without battle with access to a big red button? I wish you well on your quest for stability. Politicians in the UK seem to be happy, so i guess that makes me happy too.

The American political system is without doubt broken.
But I'd rather it not be being led by the immoral, lying, narcissist criminal that is Trump.
And yes, 74 million people can be wrong. 75% of them still believe that Trump won the last election.

[Leeds1000]

The American political system is without doubt broken.
But I'd rather it not be being led by the immoral, lying, narcissist criminal that is Trump.
And yes, 74 million people can be wrong. 75% of them still believe that Trump won the last election.

I agree with your first line. 74m people wanted that Immoral, lying, narcissist criminal re-elected. If its two forces colliding then i guess we are in big trouble.

[BobHirst]

I agree with your first line. 74m people wanted that Immoral, lying, narcissist criminal re-elected. If its two forces colliding then i guess we are in big trouble.

Just to pose your original question back at you. In Germany in 1933 the National Socialists tallied 43.9 percent of the vote. Could all those millions of people have been wrong?
I really don't think I'm being over dramatic in thinking that we are in a similar situation here. Getting rid of Trump was a good start but the mess is far from over.
The only good thing is that in the last election 80 million other people rejected Trump.

[The Subhuman]

One No Trump

[Leeds1000]

Just to pose your original question back at you. In Germany in 1933 the National Socialists tallied 43.9 percent of the vote. Could all those millions of people have been wrong?
I really don't think I'm being over dramatic in thinking that we are in a similar situation here. Getting rid of Trump was a good start but the mess is far from over.
The only good thing is that in the last election 80 million other people rejected Trump.

Its interesting you make that analogy because it was Hilary Clinton and status quo politics that drove 74m people into the arms of Donald Trump. Do i think we have seen the end of identity politics? imo definitely not. Big tech will have a massive say who makes the grade in future. I wish Biden well he has got a big job on his hands.

[Gandalf]

One No Trump

Two hearts.

[Leeds1000]

Just to pose your original question back at you. In Germany in 1933 the National Socialists tallied 43.9 percent of the vote. Could all those millions of people have been wrong?
I really don't think I'm being over dramatic in thinking that we are in a similar situation here. Getting rid of Trump was a good start but the mess is far from over.
The only good thing is that in the last election 80 million other people rejected Trump.

Decent article here on identity politics in the US. Trump was a symptom but not the cause.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... o-division

[BobHirst]

Decent article here on identity politics in the US. Trump was a symptom but not the cause.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... o-division

Believe it or not I actually agree with some of Trumps ideas. For instance, if you have immigration laws then enforce them. If not then get rid of the law.
That still doesn't alter the fact that Trump is a lying, evil, narcissistic criminal.

[Leeds1000]

Biden's message of Unity has not reached everyone yet. Well, not the Left anyway.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcev ... ec34052a50

It will be interesting to see what media coverage in the UK this gets. Normally the MSM don't mind Antifa smashing things up because its for a good cause. I think i need to reevaluate my notion of Fascism in the 21st Century.

[John in Louisiana]

I find people who aren’t libertarian a bit weird.

Can’t stand authoritarianism. Most people love it, it seems.

That's a gross mischaracterization.

What you call authoritarianism we call the rules of a civil society. Rules that recognize that we all have obligations greater than the obligation we have to ourselves.

At bottom that's the difference between you and I. Libertarians recognize no greater duty than the duty to one's self. The large majority of people in the great Western democracies reject that notion. Donald Trump was the very personification of that "ideal." When he was elected (by a minority of the electorate) I suggested the USA change its motto from "e pluribus unum" to "I got mine, f*** you." Seeing him depart the scene was one of the most satisfying moments of my life.

And there is no problem with authority so long as that authority derives its power from the consent of the governed.

[Ron Swanson]

That's a gross mischaracterization.

What you call authoritarianism we call the rules of a civil society. Rules that recognize that we all have obligations greater than the obligation we have to ourselves.

At bottom that's the difference between you and I. Libertarians recognize no greater duty than the duty to one's self. The large majority of people in the great Western democracies reject that notion. Donald Trump was the very personification of that "ideal." When he was elected (by a minority of the electorate) I suggested the USA change its motto from "e pluribus unum" to "I got mine, f*** you." Seeing him depart the scene was one of the most satisfying moments of my life.

And there is no problem with authority so long as that authority derives its power from the consent of the governed.

Trump wasn't a libertarian.

You can have a civil society, indeed something I am in favour of, without over reaching.

Government is useless, the bigger it gets, the more useless it is. Charities, voluntary and religious organisations do a far better job at helping those in need than the state does.

[John in Louisiana]

Trump wasn't a libertarian.

You can have a civil society, indeed something I am in favour of, without over reaching.

Government is useless, the bigger it gets, the more useless it is. Charities, voluntary and religious organisations do a far better job at helping those in need than the state does.

Trump wasn't a Libertarian, but he did his best to gut the government.

Government anti-poverty programs are a reaction to a real problem, namely that charities, religious organizations, and other voluntary measures weren't working nearly well enough. Had those organizations been effective in fighting poverty we wouldn't have needed the government programs in the first place.

[Smudge3920]

Trump wasn't a Libertarian, but he did his best to gut the government.

Government anti-poverty programs are a reaction to a real problem, namely that charities, religious organizations, and other voluntary measures weren't working nearly well enough. Had those organizations been effective in fighting poverty we wouldn't have needed the government programs in the first place.

World wide problem and 1st world problems...Should it not be the other way around?...if we had decent government programs and governments did the job they are elected for ...there would be no need for "Embarressing charities and food banks"... just a thought...

[Ron Swanson]

If government got out of the way, perhaps we might not be in such a mess.

In the UK we’ve had big government since 1918, and aside from a brief spell between 1979 & 1990 we’ve been in decline as a country ever since.

The brightest and best don’t go into politics anymore, they go into business.

Look at the calibre of our MPs now compared to 30 years ago.

Matthew Hancock wouldn’t get a job working for me as a virtual assistant (I’m a one man band) yet he is health secretary. A vile and useless little man. Priti Patel isn’t any better.

[Ron Swanson]

As for food banks, the volunteers who run them, and folk who donate to them do a fantastic job.

Not just handing out food, but mental health counselling for some of the users too.