The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Tuesday 16th April) - Do Leeds United have a Plan B?

[DDB220]

No point in asking the question to me unless you tell me what the alternative is. Remember last time.
Bielsa to Marsch

That is the real valid issue of sacking a manager. There has to be a better replacement. At Championship level - answers on a forum postcard with suggestions.

I cannot envisage the 49’rs sacking him after this season if we fail to get promotion. But to use the immortalised words from Saint and Greaves “ It’s a funny old game” .

On another note - I read Dele Ali will be looking for a club for next season after rehabilitation around mental health issues. Who would be happy to have him here on a free next season if it was financially viable ? The right contract could mitigate associated risk. Still relatively young - if he recaptured 75% of his best form - he could be a real asset at this level.

All assuming still in the Championship. Possibly another case for prem level depending on a multitude of factors.

[John in Louisiana]

Of course Farke stays, assuming he wants to. He's done a remarkable job this year.

[andrewjohnsmith]

Of course Farke should get a second season. Most of us weren't predicting top 2 after the preseason turmoil. He inherited quite a mess and has done a great job of sorting it out. The squad flipped dramatically. And there were several internal issues to take care of.

I fear if we don't go up that the next preseason will be a very busy time too. Maybe he can talk a few into staying. But I'm sure we would lose a few. In that case I'd rather have Farke here to sort it all out again - as he did so well this season.

Loanees were mentioned in the lead and the fact that we only had 3. I'd even say that most of those have not been successful. Rodon was the one big success. But Anthony was somebody we haven't really used. And the right backs have been underused too. Spence was a flop and Roberts has only been used briefly. At right back, we might as well have kept Ayling as back up. He's been showing he's still got it at Middlesborough. So 1 good loan. We could have used our loans a whole lot better.

[andrewjohnsmith]

That is the real valid issue of sacking a manager. There has to be a better replacement. At Championship level - answers on a forum postcard with suggestions.

I cannot envisage the 49’rs sacking him after this season if we fail to get promotion. But to use the immortalised words from Saint and Greaves “ It’s a funny old game” .

On another note - I read Dele Ali will be looking for a club for next season after rehabilitation around mental health issues. Who would be happy to have him here on a free next season if it was financially viable ? The right contract could mitigate associated risk. Still relatively young - if he recaptured 75% of his best form - he could be a real asset at this level.

All assuming still in the Championship. Possibly another case for prem level depending on a multitude of factors.

In terms of his position, he's exactly the right player. But who knows if he can ever be a decent player again.

[Kennyb41]

A motorised hot knife now there's a thought, if not a mixed metaphor.

The tank is empty and we are running on fumes is another evocative turn of phrase.

The former harks to a time of energy and confidence, the latter to a time of tepid ineptitude.

And the team are left with their feet in two camps, one hot and one cold.

And while we are invested in literary allusions what better way than to quote John of Patmos:

I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth.

What a pronouncement to make on any team.

Why do i always feel like 'I'd love to have a joint with that guy' when i read your posts.

[Kennyb41]

I'd like to see a totally fit and raring to go again Dele at LUFC, perfect fit.

None of this current team would be hard to replace, especially if we got daft money for someone like JImmy, it would be a no brainer to me.

Rodon would probably be the hardest to replace.

[whiteswan]

It's hard to believe some of our fans forget the early season turmoil.

I'm up for waiting another season, I've enjoyed the current one.

Dittooooooo

[mentalcase]

Am I correct in saying Ipswich don't have a game this weekend ?

[The Subhuman]

It's hard to believe some of our fans forget the early season turmoil.

I'm up for waiting another season, I've enjoyed the current one.

Compared to previous seasons it wasn't really turmoil and we, until very recently, were the form team since week 5. So that turmoil didn't last long. Orta's excellent scouting and the additions of Rodon, Gruev, Piroe and Ampadu gave us the best first team in the division by week 7/8 ish.


I think Farke is an excellent coach, but he's only average tactically, he will get outthought ... If we don't go up we would need to keep the likes of Gnonto and Cry to mount a similar challenge next season. Not sure how well Farke will do with a team made up of mostly Championship talent, currently we have Rodon, Ampadu, Struijk, Gray, Gnonto, Gruev, Summerville as good premiership quality. I'd maintain Geo is as well as he'll just continue to get better. If we lose a number of those the replacements would have to be as good

[Jaydog]

Am I correct in saying Ipswich don't have a game this weekend ?

Correct
We play twice before they play next on the 27th

[Cjay]

Impossible to say whether Farke should be sacked should we not be promoted without knowing the options available.

But absolutely no chance this was some sort of "project" 2,3 years for promotion.

That's PR spin.

His job was promotion this season (which still may happen).

No chance the 49ers looked at those accounts and thought "yeah we can wait a few years".

They need a Premier League club now to start plans to make a profit for the investors.

Thus isn't some consolidation rebuild season for next season or the season after.

They assumed Farke would be a sure thing appointment.

Southampton and Leicester went for "project" appointments.

We went for the supposed expert.

[Cjay]

Absolutely Farke should stay, the carnage he inherited, and had to run with for a time, is forgotten by some. If it means we have to wait another year, before promotion, so be it.

The last thing we need is starting all over again.

Is that not overplayed somewhat?

Our takeover was officially signed off in June, realise the stuff with Gnonto and Co in August but that was 8 months ago now.

Fans see things through biased eyes of course but this perception Leicester and Southampton had an easy settled August has been debunked by The Athletic.

Even into the final hours they were expecting Adams, Armstrong, Ndidi, Faes and Co could leave. We weren't unique in that respect, Gnonto situation aside.

Difference was those players changed the mind but wasn't a certain thing all August as we seem to have decided on here.

Sheffield United got promoted whilst an ownership struggle and court case went on all season.

WBA are in absolute turmoil, Coventry have had years of ownership turmoil and won multiple promotions throughout it (including a game away from the prem).

Feels like we make more of that than it should be, teams have gone through far worse for far longer and achieved promotions.

Seems a very small bit of turmoil to excuse a whole season with a huge budget and squad for this league (should we not be promoted of course).

[whiteswan]

Is that not overplayed somewhat?

Our takeover was officially signed off in June, realise the stuff with Gnonto and Co in August but that was 8 months ago now.

Fans see things through biased eyes of course but this perception Leicester and Southampton had an easy settled August has been debunked by The Athletic.

Even into the final hours they were expecting Adams, Armstrong, Ndidi, Faes and Co could leave. We weren't unique in that respect, Gnonto situation aside.

Difference was those players changed the mind but wasn't a certain thing all August as we seem to have decided on here.

Sheffield United got promoted whilst an ownership struggle and court case went on all season.

WBA are in absolute turmoil, Coventry have had years of ownership turmoil and won multiple promotions throughout it (including a game away from the prem).

Feels like we make more of that than it should be, teams have gone through far worse for far longer and achieved promotions.

Seems a very small bit of turmoil to excuse a whole season with a huge budget and squad for this league (should we not be promoted of course).

sorry Cjay, couldn't resist

[mentalcase]

Impossible to say whether Farke should be sacked should we not be promoted without knowing the options available.

But absolutely no chance this was some sort of "project" 2,3 years for promotion.

That's PR spin.

His job was promotion this season (which still may happen).

No chance the 49ers looked at those accounts and thought "yeah we can wait a few years".

They need a Premier League club now to start plans to make a profit for the investors.

Thus isn't some consolidation rebuild season for next season or the season after.

They assumed Farke would be a sure thing appointment.

Southampton and Leicester went for "project" appointments.

We went for the supposed expert.

I don't agree with that CJ, No way would Farke have taken the job on a promotion or sacked option, also the board would be pretty stupid / naive to think that we could go straight back up with what we had at our disposal.
Sure, other teams have had issues, but our were magnified well in to the season, players like that little s**t gnonto refusing to play etc.
We will never know if we went for the supposed "expert" or not, more likely we tried attracting 3-4 others first and they baulked at the job at hand, hence why we got DF in so late.
DFs problem seems to be like other good managers in that they have a stubborn streak, they'll live by the sword.
Lets hope we get promotion because the accounts don't look particularly healthy.

[Cjay]

sorry Cjay, couldn't resist

Oh they are violins

They look like guitars in normal view, was very confused

[Cjay]

I don't agree with that CJ, No way would Farke have taken the job on a promotion or sacked option, also the board would be pretty stupid / naive to think that we could go straight back up with what we had at our disposal.
Sure, other teams have had issues, but our were magnified well in to the season, players like that little s**t gnonto refusing to play etc.
We will never know if we went for the supposed "expert" or not, more likely we tried attracting 3-4 others first and they baulked at the job at hand, hence why we got DF in so late.
DFs problem seems to be like other good managers in that they have a stubborn streak, they'll live by the sword.
Lets hope we get promotion because the accounts don't look particularly healthy.

I'm sure it wasn't expressed to him in blunt terms like that MC.

Promotion or be sacked.

But every parachute payment club aims for 1st season promotion, not one will aim for consolidation because as our accounts show the financial implications of a 2nd Championship season can be awful and the potential for getting stuck down here increases.

I agree we had our issues but at the same time the owners have provided by Championship standards an elite squad (whether we as fans rate the players or not is up for debate).

But from an owners point of view they've given Farke the top right back in the league last season, the top finisher officially in the league over the last 2 seasons, a winger who got 8 goals and 7 assists for a promotion winning club a few seasons back and played regular Premier league football last season.

Italian international wingers (who they could have sold for £30mil but Kept as Farke wanted him, Dan James who we spent £25mil on, Rutter who they also could have sold to Dortmund, Rodon, Ampadu, Gruev.

At Championship level that is an absolute ton of money I bet on wages and fees.

Then people like Bamford a former Championship player of the year, Firpo a La Liga winning full back, Struijk, Cooper.

And per his request they kept people like Gelhardt and Cresswell who we could have sold to other Championship clubs but kept as Farke requested it.

These for this level from an owners point of view are phenomenally expensive and high level players.

Teams like Burnley in recent years and Fulham had nothing like this level of depth.

You can only support that level of expense and wages once.

So did the 49ers sell this as a multi season potential stay to the investors? Highly unlikely I'd think.

I'm sure they didn't guarantee promotion but I bet they expected it privately.

They need it from a business point of view.

I think he's a decent man manager DF and do think he has done good things at times.

I don't think he is the difference maker for us in the same way some managers are, Bielsa for example I think was worth 10-15 points just for his knowhow and ability.

I don't think DF has that impact.

Just want us promoted

Traumatised by the 16 years in the wilderness

[Barlow Boy]

Is that not overplayed somewhat?

Our takeover was officially signed off in June, realise the stuff with Gnonto and Co in August but that was 8 months ago now.

Fans see things through biased eyes of course but this perception Leicester and Southampton had an easy settled August has been debunked by The Athletic.

Even into the final hours they were expecting Adams, Armstrong, Ndidi, Faes and Co could leave. We weren't unique in that respect, Gnonto situation aside.

Difference was those players changed the mind but wasn't a certain thing all August as we seem to have decided on here.

Sheffield United got promoted whilst an ownership struggle and court case went on all season.

WBA are in absolute turmoil, Coventry have had years of ownership turmoil and won multiple promotions throughout it (including a game away from the prem).

Feels like we make more of that than it should be, teams have gone through far worse for far longer and achieved promotions.

Seems a very small bit of turmoil to excuse a whole season with a huge budget and squad for this league (should we not be promoted of course).

Not sure it’s overplayed, didn’t we only win one of our first seven games or something like that? (not checked, but pretty sure it was dire).

In my opinion, only my opinion of course, that was pretty much down to the carnage that Farke inherited, such as a players looking for transfers, feigning injury and effectively going on strike. Once everything calmed down, the results improved, which I would suggest is not a coincidence.

You don’t like Farke for various reasons, you’ve made that pretty clear , and I don’t dispute he hasn’t made mistakes but we all do and that’s just part of life.

For me, he’s done a relatively decent job and to get rid of him (if we don’t go up this year) and starting again would be absolute nonsense.

[Cjay]

Not sure it’s overplayed, didn’t we only win one of our first seven games or something like that? (not checked, but pretty sure it was dire).

In my opinion, only my opinion of course, that was pretty much down to the carnage that Farke inherited, such as a players looking for transfers, feigning injury and effectively going on strike. Once everything calmed down, the results improved, which I would suggest is not a coincidence.

You don’t like Farke for various reasons, you’ve made that pretty clear , and I don’t dispute he hasn’t made mistakes but we all do and that’s just part of life.

For me, he’s done a relatively decent job and to get rid of him (if we don’t go up this year) and starting again would be absolute nonsense.

That's one of the more balanced views I will give you that

An ok job.

I'm happy with that as a response.

Fully expected a long rant about why he is the messiah and the 2nd coming of Revie, Wiko , Bielsa rolled into one.

[The Subhuman]

sorry Cjay, couldn't resist

What are they? Cellos ?

[The Subhuman]

Not sure it’s overplayed, didn’t we only win one of our first seven games or something like that? (not checked, but pretty sure it was dire).

In my opinion, only my opinion of course, that was pretty much down to the carnage that Farke inherited, such as a players looking for transfers, feigning injury and effectively going on strike. Once everything calmed down, the results improved, which I would suggest is not a coincidence.

You don’t like Farke for various reasons, you’ve made that pretty clear , and I don’t dispute he hasn’t made mistakes but we all do and that’s just part of life.

For me, he’s done a relatively decent job and to get rid of him (if we don’t go up this year) and starting again would be absolute nonsense.

Leeds United 2 Cardiff 2 - Cooper, Summerville - Summerville
Birmingham 1 Leeds United 0 -
Leeds United 1 West Brom 1 - Ayling - James
Ipswich 3 Leeds United 4 - Rutter, Gnonto, Piroe, Sinisterra - Ayling, Byram, Shackleton
Leeds United 0 Sheffield Wednesday 0
Millwall 0 Leeds United 3 - Piroe (2) Rutter - Rutter, James
Hull city 0 Leeds United 0

10 points, nowhere near dire and really only the Brum game was an issue, just Leicester bolted out of the traps.

We were top of the form table weeks 6-40