Leeds Utd v Birmingham City Match Thread

[weasel]

Nice thought out post

I think we can all agree on that

Not going to respond to each point as it would take weeks

Thank fook for that - I can hopefully get back to watching the film I started watching - I forget its name but it is a 2015 mystery thriller horror film written, co-produced, and directed by Michael Petroni. The film stars Adrien Brody, Bruce Spence, Sam Neill, Robin McLeavy, Malcolm Kennard, and Jenni Baird.

Today was decent, hopefully a turning point on certain things.

But wasnt perfect against an awful team and stupid manager.

Hopefully a catalyst rather than a false dawn.

Concern I have is Birmingham were there for the taking.

It's against better organised and more defensive teams we struggle.

Yeah not getting carried away either but equally wasn't too downhearted after the recent defeats. My feeling was Bamford may be more suited to us playing against park the bus defences but I don't think Birmingham really attempted to park the bus or attack us openly today - I don't know what their tactics were which probably says a lot about why they are doing so badly. That said no team in this division simply rolls over and we have come unstuck against poor teams previously.

[andrewjohnsmith]

It's so noticeable the pace of James & Summerville has gone once the pair are not on the pitch.

As I posted previously, we become worse with every substitute we make in the second-half.

Folk crying out for Gnonto to start, right now Cree & Dan are three times the player Willy is, and he thinks he's good enough for the PL, Gnonto is in for a nasty shock if he does get the move he may crave for!

I've never called for Gnonto to be first choice over James. But I always said we need to do a better job of squad rotation. Hand pick the games where Gnonto can start. It's a long season. We need to find the right games to rest players and allow others to get a run out.

[Kennyb41]

Indeed, we saw it with not only Dallas but Alioski too. If they have enough pace, but more importantly the right mental attitude, then you can work on the player. They might never turn into prime Bobby Moore defensively but if they can get forward and get back then at the very least they are holding up the opposition winger for a second or two to enable other defenders to get back into position.

It must be incredibly hard to go forward and then chase back and be able to get yourself into the position you want to be to face a winger coming at you. You are in effect making the job of defending so much harder than it is. As a full back you want to be in position and thus be able to dictate to the winger where you want them to go (for me it would be show them the outside and then stretch out a leg and clear the ball into touch). But you can't realyl get yourself set if you are having to chase back first.

There was one today with Firpo when it was just soooooooo obvious the ball was gonna get played to their guy nearest Firpo, Firpo was about 2 yd behind him trying to get back and it was near the halfway line i think, i was screaming for him to get a spurt on and get goal side before it was too late, but no, he decided to spurt when it was too late, luckily they missed.

He could easily have put the burners on prior to get goalside, coz he nearly caught him up when he did, but it was too late then the horse had bolted, that type of thing i'd be banging into his thick head when going over the game again

[AcrossThePondAsh]

Not from me. Always known he's had the ability. He just lost his groove in between the injuries. The misses have been painful to watch. But I know he's the got the ability to be getting a run of starts again.

I think it's also a bit of a head game when it comes to PB, or at least it has seemed that way in the past. Aside from needing more match time on the pitch, he seems one who once his head drops he's done for. I've always imagined he's much harder on himself than we (or other fans) could ever be, which is honestly quite scary.

[Jaydog]

So eloquently stated, as usual, JD...made me spit out my coffee this

...and now unfortunately an image I can't unsee

Nor can the keeper

[weasel]

It's so noticeable the pace of James & Summerville has gone once the pair are not on the pitch.

As I posted previously, we become worse with every substitute we make in the second-half.

Folk crying out for Gnonto to start, right now Cree & Dan are three times the player Willy is, and he thinks he's good enough for the PL, Gnonto is in for a nasty shock if he does get the move he may crave for!

It is really baffling with Gnonto as he looked to have similar pace to James and be faster than Cree. I was chuffed when we signed him last season and delighted when he was still with us when the transfer window closed. I thought he'd be a starter and would rip this league up scoring 20+ goals but it just hasn't happened. At this point I wouldn't be bothered if he left and we got a decent fee for him that enabled us to balance our squad better.

Similarly surprised with Anthony who looked really good in his first couple of sub appearances but has not done much since then.

Like you I don't think we look stronger when we make subs and despite some fans wanting to give them longer I'm with Farke. That said I would have been tempted to make the changes a little earlier today once we'd got the 3rd.

[Kennyb41]

How many fans would have brought Spence on though, instead of Firpo, and played him out of positon?

It is only because we had lost the last two matches. Before that if Bamford had have been picked to start instead of either Rutter or Piroe Farke would have been slaughtered by the fans. Indeed most fans, yourself included, were not happy with Bamford being given the start today......

lol, and that's why i prefer his thoughts prior, and not in hindsight.

[Cjay]

I haven't ever seen Sam Neil in anything that wasn't Jurassic Park or that drama years ago set on Alcatraz.

Was decent that was sad they cancelled it.

Birmingham were a mess, it wasn't a high press but it wasn't a park the bus either.

It was a mix of both which by its very design is ridiculous as it creates huge caps either between midfield and attack or defence and midfield.

Odd tactics, not sure what he was hoping to achieve by not picking one or the other.

Weirdly I think Piroe up front is better vs park the bus teams as he is imo a much more intelligent player than Bamford, better movement, better finisher.

I think Bamford is more suited to park the bus teams as he is a bit more physical.

Either way it would be nice to get them both firing.

[Cjay]

lol, and that's why i prefer his thoughts prior, and not in hindsight.

You are doing it again!!!!!!!

Absolutely nothing to do with you that conversation.

And in hindsight would mean I try to get away from what I said and

But what was my first line?

I wasn't no (you didn't need to quote it)

[Kennyb41]

I never said sack Farke

You have this habit of claiming I said things I didn't and then never being able to back them up

I said he was underachieving and his tactics don't work well enough away from home where his reliance on individuals in key moments is nullified by a more defensive opponent.

None of those things were shown to be wrong today.

In a home match vs an opponent who didn't park the bus, weren't defensively organised and had an inexperienced manager able to adapt.

" I never wanted him in the first place"

[Cjay]

" I never wanted him in the first place"

For one so wise that is a rather meaningless quote.

It has no relevance to you saying I said DF should be sacked now

Stop trying to claim I did this and that Kenny because in your time on here you've never been able to back it up once.

Stick to things I actually said not the things you hope I said so you can act all superior

[weasel]

And an excellent player to work on in the Championship.

Like i've said previous, Bert saw him v us for Swansea and most likely told Clown 'he'll do if you can get him, have we any money, 5m should do, do i have to raise it myself ?"

But no, clown Leeds fans think he wanted him for the 25m paid second hand from scum

Indeed. When we got him he was a player that had been broken by the MU fans who were always on his back. He then got judged by our fans despite him unselfishly playing out of position as we had no fit strikers - the same fans who at the time were clamouring for Tyler Roberts to start ahead of him and then subsequently turned on Roberts too and yet also claimed Bielsa had a weird obseesion with picking Roberts - talk about twisting things to support your argument.

Blame Bielsa cos we overpaid for James
Blame James for not scoring loads of goals when unselfishly playing out of position for us
Blame Bielsa for picking James instead of Tyler Roberts
Blame Roberts for being s**t when they finally realise why Bielsa didn't pick him
Blame Bielsa after he is sacked for having a weird love for Roberts (despite Bielsa only picking him when no other options were available)
Blame Bielsa for not picking Gelhardt ahead of James
Lambast Gelhardt for not scoring bucketloads when on loan at Sunderland
Hail Marsch for sending James out on loan to Fulham and replacing him with Aaronsen
Blame Bielsa once more for spending £25m on James
Love James and mock ex-player Roberts

And no doubt next time James misses a sitter will be back to blaming Bielsa for overpaying for him.

[Kennyb41]

Not from me. Always known he's had the ability. He just lost his groove in between the injuries. The misses have been painful to watch. But I know he's the got the ability to be getting a run of starts again.

Oh he'll still drive you nuts with his misses, i think i'm right in saying his one that hit the post today should've gone in the other side.

[JoeDenver]

The difference is he is meant to do that in the role he played today.

If he is drifting like that and Piroe is drifting as he is told to then you have no striker?

Difference today is Bamford lead the line and played as a striker rather than Rutter ad Piroe being a bit samey.

You can't play 1 striker up front who wants to drift and the other who is told to and not expect a problem imo.

Bamford averages more shots per game, more penalty box shots, more six yard box shots than both Piroe and Rutter.

More 6 yard box shots than them combined in fact per game.

Not sure if anyone saw Locky’s tactical analysis on his YouTube channel (guy bleeds Leeds, btw). He pointed out a lot of this where Rutter and Piroe were practically stepping on each other as their patterns of play were too similar which was leading them to playing on the same plane (geometry reference). This was causing less passing options for teammates to reach them while simultaneously making us easier to defend against. Lucky called it that Farke and his staff will likely see this, as well and will be working on fixing it. Think the Rutter switch to no10, simply allowed him to play the way he already has been, while Paddy in the 9 gave the necessary variation in the spaces being occupied.

https://youtu.be/LvE-YZLZhqQ?si=ogQsTaX-zCKyx1mc

[weasel]

Not from me. Always known he's had the ability. He just lost his groove in between the injuries. The misses have been painful to watch. But I know he's the got the ability to be getting a run of starts again.

I don't know what we have with Bamford now. I hope he is back to his best but I just don't know. Thankfully because we have other strikers and they have been doing well it has hopefully meant Bamford has been given enough time to well and truely be over his injuries and past the stage where you injure a different part of your body as you are overprotecting the part you had injured previously.

The goal will hopefully give him confidence and we will see what the best version of Bamford is capable of. It will be great if he can be a useful weapon for us as it does allow us to play differently and it may be a way of helping us break down defences if he can occupy defenders and give more room to the likes of Cree, Rutter and James.

[weasel]

There was one today with Firpo when it was just soooooooo obvious the ball was gonna get played to their guy nearest Firpo, Firpo was about 2 yd behind him trying to get back and it was near the halfway line i think, i was screaming for him to get a spurt on and get goal side before it was too late, but no, he decided to spurt when it was too late, luckily they missed.

He could easily have put the burners on prior to get goalside, coz he nearly caught him up when he did, but it was too late then the horse had bolted, that type of thing i'd be banging into his thick head when going over the game again

Yeah I don't think reading the game is his strongest point. So much about defending is about getting yourself into a good position by reading the danger before it happens.

[weasel]

I haven't ever seen Sam Neil in anything that wasn't Jurassic Park or that drama years ago set on Alcatraz.

Was decent that was sad they cancelled it.

Birmingham were a mess, it wasn't a high press but it wasn't a park the bus either.

It was a mix of both which by its very design is ridiculous as it creates huge caps either between midfield and attack or defence and midfield.

Odd tactics, not sure what he was hoping to achieve by not picking one or the other.

Weirdly I think Piroe up front is better vs park the bus teams as he is imo a much more intelligent player than Bamford, better movement, better finisher.

I think Bamford is more suited to park the bus teams as he is a bit more physical.

Either way it would be nice to get them both firing.

It would make a huge difference if we had real competition for places with everyone on form. That is when the substitutions really can change a match. Like you have said previously Leicester and Ipswich have had subs that have performed well and that is crucial for getting those late goals that change matches.

[Kennyb41]

It is really baffling with Gnonto as he looked to have similar pace to James and be faster than Cree. I was chuffed when we signed him last season and delighted when he was still with us when the transfer window closed. I thought he'd be a starter and would rip this league up scoring 20+ goals but it just hasn't happened. At this point I wouldn't be bothered if he left and we got a decent fee for him that enabled us to balance our squad better.

Similarly surprised with Anthony who looked really good in his first couple of sub appearances but has not done much since then.

Like you I don't think we look stronger when we make subs and despite some fans wanting to give them longer I'm with Farke. That said I would have been tempted to make the changes a little earlier today once we'd got the 3rd.

I'm not gonna say 'diamond' coz i don't know if he is, but he's definitely 'raw and rough', too young yet and way too big for his boots, he'd be as well to stay in someone like DF's hands, but it strikes me he'll go it alone and find out the hard way, very much an individual atm, there's summert there but he's a lot to learn.

I only wish Jimmy and Dan could see a pass and make a pass better, and especially quicker than they do at times, i know he's been scoring but Jimmy can be over greedy just constantly looking to dribble and get it onto his right foot to shoot when sometimes not only is there an easier option, but a better one. Or more to the point - do the simple thing. Can separate the good from the great that.

[1964white]

It is really baffling with Gnonto as he looked to have similar pace to James and be faster than Cree. I was chuffed when we signed him last season and delighted when he was still with us when the transfer window closed. I thought he'd be a starter and would rip this league up scoring 20+ goals but it just hasn't happened. At this point I wouldn't be bothered if he left and we got a decent fee for him that enabled us to balance our squad better.

Similarly surprised with Anthony who looked really good in his first couple of sub appearances but has not done much since then.

Like you I don't think we look stronger when we make subs and despite some fans wanting to give them longer I'm with Farke. That said I would have been tempted to make the changes a little earlier today once we'd got the 3rd.

Like you, I thought Gnonto would rip the championship up, not the case!

Losing Willy to a PL club wouldn't concern me one bit.

[JoeDenver]

And when he did drift Kamara slotted into the void, but stats won't tell you that, you have to use your own eyes.

More work by the manager.

Just wrote a response to Cjay that alludes to this same thing. Check out that Locky Leeds video I shared. The movement of our players has been too stagnant, particularly against low and mid blocks) which has resulted in it being harder to pass to each other (except backwards) as well making us easier to defend against. Formalizing Rutter in the 10 role necessitated someone else filling some of the space voids that he’d leave behind as there wasn’t a Piroe there occupying the same space.

And I’m sure as soon as the Firpo substitution was made, Farke was barking out orders to Ampadu and Kamara about occupying the space Firpo leaves behind as he bombs forward. This was probably one of the reasons why Ampadu and Kamara had more pedestrian games (IMHO) relative to their usual output…too focused on occupying vacated space to leave us less vulnerable on counters, etc. I’d also imagine Amps and Kamara improving and becoming more fluid if we continue with this set up. My two cents…