Sunderland v Leeds Utd Match Thread

[Jaydog]

Once again, apart from Gnonto, our subs made no impact, whatsoever!

My Mrs laughed when Bamford came on. “He can’t have hair like that”. I said it’ll be the only impact he has. And it was.

[Cjay]

Jeez, talk about over exaggeration to suit your narrative

DJ - Is a £5m Championship prospect, I don't care what the clown paid for him, that's what he is.
Rutter - The Clown overpaid for a potential, whom we've no idea if he can cut it in the Prem, he's doing well in the Championship.
JP - £16m for a proven Championship striker with potential is probably ok.
WG - Wtf has a £30m rejection got to do with owt, we paid £4m.
JR - £15m ? Spur paid £10m for someone that was ok in the Championship, he can't get in their Prem team and was rejected elsewhere.
Spence - Where've you plucked this figure from ? It was also his first start out of position ?
EA - £7m - What are you expecting ?

Anyways - Sunderland didn't exactly play us off the park, the only team to play us off the park this season were Soton for 45mins, we actually played the league leaders off the park, and were better than the 0-1 scoreline that day.

Conditions last night were terrible for our play, yes it's the same for both teams - But they were definitely better than us in them, they gave us no time at all and to me those conditions did more favours for them than us, and our preferred style of play.

I think our performance looked jaded and i don't know the reasons for that, one thing i do feel, is that DF is getting it wrong away from home.

When his ploy of trying to bring teams out to play fails and they just get themselves organised, it's fcking us up, and badly.
Now that is a worry, because for ANY fecking team to do that is not hard, and when we do finally get forward the away defenders are not only organised, but they have also put 5 along the back line, if not 6, and we brickwall it.

My main concern is why he's persisting with it away after Stoke Rotherham and now Sunderland, and it's probably why Soton blitzed us 3-0 first half

We need to stfu about keeping your adored clean sheets, and play to OUR strengths on the understanding that we're gonna concede.

I'd sooner win a fcking game 2-3 or 3-4, than gift a game 1-0 by playing into the oppo's hands.

Our strength lies in taking the game to the opponents, and not by politely asking them 'will you please come and play with us'

Missing my point Kenny, my point was those players walk into basically every Championship team bar Leicester maybe.

Then throw in Anthony, Gray etc.

Do you think hand on heart Farke gets the best out of this team? Or is he just largely irrelevant?

In the sense that under Bert you could see that a ton of work had gone in on the training pitch to create repetitive and well drilled patterns of play and drills designed to maximise each player to his maximum (ok it had limits like everything) but you could see it and then we saw it on the pitch with the goals.

I don't see that with Farke? I don't see great training and tactical repetitive sequences.

I see 500 passes then pass to Rutter and Summerville and hope for the best for some magic.

That incidentally is exactly what my view of Norwich was with Buendia.

So do you hand on heart think DF is playing a key role on the pitch? Is he a contributing factor? Are his tactics and plans making the difference in the way Bielsa did or McKenna at Ipswich or Wilder at Blunts or Frank at Brentford?

For me no so what do you think.

[1964white]

Go back to August, and remember the thoughts every single one of us had about this coming season because of the absolute s**t show with all these release clauses in the plsyers contracts.

EVERY single one of us would have taken 41 points from 21 games,

because in any other season that would have you very comfortably in the automatic promotion spots,

But because it doesn’t this year, as two teams have started this season better than anyone else in the history of the championship people are losing their minds,

Just think about where we were just 5 months ago,

Criticising an owner who didn’t have enough money to spend, we practically forced him to sell,

We had new owners come in,

We had 11 or 12 first team players walk away on contracts not worth wiping your arse with,

Players telling us they’re staying, then leaving within 24hrs,

players threatening legal action in the last days of the window to force moves,

we had a new manager come in on the very first day of pre season ffs,

he’s had to build a team so fast his head was spinning,

yes there are positions that still need addressing, but that simply can’t happen overnight,

We then had players refusing to play once the season had actually started, then again a player threatening legal action to force a move,

The club was in complete turmoil from top to bottom,

41 points is an absolute fantastic achievement by Farke so far,

Yes we’ve dropped points, but we won’t win every game, it’s simply not realistic to think any team will.

If Leicester & Ipswich continue on their run, so be it, absolutely nothing we can do about that.

I personally am very happy with how the season has gone so far, in fact it’s been better than I ever thought it was going to be back in August, knowing how relentless this league is

I’m sure there’s events I’ve missed off from this narrative, but please just be truthful with yourself, deep down you’ve got to be happy where we are now, compared to August.

NOBOBY saw what Leicester are doing coming, let alone Ipswich.

We all know, it’s not how you start, but how you finish in this league.

[Cjay]

Spot on. This actually had an aura of Marsch’s final game in charge for us (Nottingham Forest) in that we looked completely lost and devoid of any ideas on how to break the opposition down. Farke wasn’t despondent, though (he’s comfy in his spot right now), but he definitely got this one tactically all wrong. Thought Connor’s take echoed much of this, as well:

https://www.youtube.com/live/BFXJWpOeGd ... og3Q_O7-Ci

Think Connor is spot on, basically said the same thing.

I think people took to Farke because he seemed to bring some stability and calm and seems a good guy.

But I think if you take the emotion out of it you can see why he's failed so badly at the top level.

He's extremely limited tactically, he has no real flexibility if his tactics are countered, and he is extremely reliant on individual players to save him.

I just think he gets an easy ride when we aren't even hitting the average needed for top 2 in a normal season now despite one of the biggest budgets in Championship history.

[Kennyb41]

Missing my point Kenny, my point was those players walk into basically every Championship team bar Leicester maybe.

Then throw in Anthony, Gray etc.

Do you think hand on heart Farke gets the best out of this team? Or is he just largely irrelevant?

In the sense that under Bert you could see that a ton of work had gone in on the training pitch to create repetitive and well drilled patterns of play and drills designed to maximise each player to his maximum (ok it had limits like everything) but you could see it and then we saw it on the pitch with the goals.

I don't see that with Farke? I don't see great training and tactical repetitive sequences.

I see 500 passes then pass to Rutter and Summerville and hope for the best for some magic.

That incidentally is exactly what my view of Norwich was with Buendia.

So do you hand on heart think DF is playing a key role on the pitch? Is he a contributing factor? Are his tactics and plans making the difference in the way Bielsa did or McKenna at Ipswich or Wilder at Blunts or Frank at Brentford?

For me no so what do you think.

What i do know is yes he has been getting something out of a vast majority of average Championship players, and that it's too early to start slating him when there are a number of factors at play, some performances have been excellent with this limited squad and there has also been some questionable performances to date. Like i've said, i don't think his away tactics are working and we seem a different team altogether, forwards having to come and pick the ball up way too deep being some of it.

it's just too early yet to be saying he's getting it ALL wrong.

[Cjay]

Go back to August, and remember the thoughts every single one of us had about this coming season because of the absolute s**t show with all these release clauses in the plsyers contracts.

EVERY single one of us would have taken 41 points from 21 games,

because in any other season that would have you very comfortably in the automatic promotion spots,

But because it doesn’t this year, as two teams have started this season better than anyone else in the history of the championship people are losing their minds,

Just think about where we were just 5 months ago,

Criticising an owner who didn’t have enough money to spend, we practically forced him to sell,

We had new owners come in,

We had 11 or 12 first team players walk away on contracts not worth wiping your arse with,

Players telling us they’re staying, then leaving within 24hrs,

players threatening legal action in the last days of the window to force moves,

we had a new manager come in on the very first day of pre season ffs,

he’s had to build a team so fast his head was spinning,

yes there are positions that still need addressing, but that simply can’t happen overnight,

We then had players refusing to play once the season had actually started, then again a player threatening legal action to force a move,

The club was in complete turmoil from top to bottom,

41 points is an absolute fantastic achievement by Farke so far,

Yes we’ve dropped points, but we won’t win every game, it’s simply not realistic to think any team will.

If Leicester & Ipswich continue on their run, so be it, absolutely nothing we can do about that.

I personally am very happy with how the season has gone so far, in fact it’s been better than I ever thought it was going to be back in August, knowing how relentless this league is

I’m sure there’s events I’ve missed off from this narrative, but please just be truthful with yourself, deep down you’ve got to be happy where we are now, compared to August.

NOBOBY saw what Leicester are doing coming, let alone Ipswich.

We all know, it’s not how you start, but how you finish in this league.

Wouldn't actually that is a myth that has been created to talk up Df.

It actually would only see you top 2 in the last 10 years at this stage 3 times.

He is doing nothing that hasn't been done better at this stage by plenty of managers with half his budget.

Yes he's had a hard August, yes he had turmoil.

Doesn't excuse his performances in December vs Sunderland.

Or November vs Rotherham or October vs Stoke.

Or the multiple games where we have really poor and inconsistent halves.

He did fine in the summer to manage the turmoil but it doesn't excuse his bang average at best performance.

As I said people have created this Idea that he is unlucky Leicester and Ipswich are creating this unusual pace and any normal season sees us top 2 at this stage.

It doesn't for most of the last 10 seasons.

[Cjay]

What i do know is yes he has been getting something out of a vast majority of average Championship players, and that it's too early to start slating him when there are a number of factors at play, some performances have been excellent with this limited squad and there has also been some questionable performances to date. Like i've said, i don't think his away tactics are working and we seem a different team altogether, forwards having to come and pick the ball up way too deep being some of it.

it's just too early yet to be saying he's getting it ALL wrong.

You aren't serious?

Talk to fans of basically every Championship team and they'd swap 3 or 4 starters they have for players on our bench never mind starting 11.

Bielsa had average players.
Wilder had average players
McKenna has average players.

Farke has full Italian internationals, promotion winning wingers on the bench.

He's got players on the pitch who cost more than entire squads.

[Orange Box]

Go back to August, and remember the thoughts every single one of us had about this coming season because of the absolute s**t show with all these release clauses in the plsyers contracts.

EVERY single one of us would have taken 41 points from 21 games,

because in any other season that would have you very comfortably in the automatic promotion spots,

But because it doesn’t this year, as two teams have started this season better than anyone else in the history of the championship people are losing their minds,

Just think about where we were just 5 months ago,

Criticising an owner who didn’t have enough money to spend, we practically forced him to sell,

We had new owners come in,

We had 11 or 12 first team players walk away on contracts not worth wiping your arse with,

Players telling us they’re staying, then leaving within 24hrs,

players threatening legal action in the last days of the window to force moves,

we had a new manager come in on the very first day of pre season ffs,

he’s had to build a team so fast his head was spinning,

yes there are positions that still need addressing, but that simply can’t happen overnight,

We then had players refusing to play once the season had actually started, then again a player threatening legal action to force a move,

The club was in complete turmoil from top to bottom,

41 points is an absolute fantastic achievement by Farke so far,

Yes we’ve dropped points, but we won’t win every game, it’s simply not realistic to think any team will.

If Leicester & Ipswich continue on their run, so be it, absolutely nothing we can do about that.

I personally am very happy with how the season has gone so far, in fact it’s been better than I ever thought it was going to be back in August, knowing how relentless this league is

I’m sure there’s events I’ve missed off from this narrative, but please just be truthful with yourself, deep down you’ve got to be happy where we are now, compared to August.

NOBOBY saw what Leicester are doing coming, let alone Ipswich.

We all know, it’s not how you start, but how you finish in this league.

Did you have to post that ? I’m close to going back to bed and staying there till next summer.

When you remember where we were on Sept 1 it’s a miracle we aren’t in a relegation battle. You absolutely right, every one of us would have bitten your hand off for todays position. As some of us aren’t ashamed to point out, promotion would be good, but not at the expense of bouncing straight back down because we hadn’t laid firm foundations for PL survival.

[Kennyb41]

Think Connor is spot on, basically said the same thing.

I think people took to Farke because he seemed to bring some stability and calm and seems a good guy.

But I think if you take the emotion out of it you can see why he's failed so badly at the top level.

He's extremely limited tactically, he has no real flexibility if his tactics are countered, and he is extremely reliant on individual players to save him.

I just think he gets an easy ride when we aren't even hitting the average needed for top 2 in a normal season now despite one of the biggest budgets in Championship history.

I'm reading the above thinking ' yeh fair enough, these things could turn out to be true but i'm judging him on what he's got at Leeds atm'

Then i get to the bold bit ? Wtf's all that about ?

[Kennyb41]

You aren't serious?

Talk to fans of basically every Championship team and they'd swap 3 or 4 starters they have for players on our bench never mind starting 11.

Bielsa had average players.
Wilder had average players
McKenna has average players.

Farke has full Italian internationals, promotion winning wingers on the bench.

He's got players on the pitch who cost more than entire squads.

I'm deadly serious.

And why you talking like he's totally failed at Leeds up to now ?

[Cjay]

I'm reading the above thinking ' yeh fair enough, these things could turn out to be true but i'm judging him on what he's got at Leeds atm'

Then i get to the bold bit ? Wtf's all that about ?

Point was he's been given more tools than most managers ever get.

Case in point.

Ilia Gruev, who Farke apparently personally requested as a signing? Cost £5-6mil.

That's more than 20 other teams spent on any player this season (wasn't even in our top 2 most expensive signing).

[Kennyb41]

I'm prepared to give him some time and transfer windows to see what the 49ers and him do.

Please don't compare him to Bert, it's totally unfair.

[Cjay]

I'm deadly serious.

And why you talking like he's totally failed at Leeds up to now ?

I don't think he's failed.

I just don't think he's done anything that deserves praise to much degree.

I think he's done an at best poor to mediocre job.

And I can't understand why some think he is here to consolidate this season (absolutely crazy logic, you never do that on purpose).

And judge him that way.

[Cjay]

I'm prepared to give him some time and transfer windows to see what the 49ers and him do.

Please don't compare him to Bert, it's totally unfair.

So if we don't get promoted you'd let him stay?

[1964white]

My Mrs laughed when Bamford came on. “He can’t have hair like that”. I said it’ll be the only impact he has. And it was.

I despair Jay.

We bring on Bamford & a kid wet behind the ears & that is the extent of an attacking threat in the No.9 role outside our first XI.

[Kennyb41]

Point was he's been given more tools than most managers ever get.

Case in point.

Ilia Gruev, who Farke apparently personally requested as a signing? Cost £5-6mil.

That's more than 20 other teams spent on any player this season (wasn't even in our top 2 most expensive signing).

Oh ffs, where do you actually get these so called 'facts ' from ?

[Kennyb41]

I don't think he's failed.

I just don't think he's done anything that deserves praise to much degree.

I think he's done an at best poor to mediocre job.

And I can't understand why some think he is here to consolidate this season (absolutely crazy logic, you never do that on purpose).

And judge him that way.

Jeez you don't half get carried away in the moment.

It doesn't take Einstein to figure out that DF wants promotion - He's here to win as many games as is possible, it's that simple.

On Saturday v Coventry, he'll be putting out a team to win a game, the same with the next one.

I and many others won't be thinking 'Oh look, he's trying to consolidate again'

[Cjay]

Oh ffs, where do you actually get these so called 'facts ' from ?

Phil Hay . . . . .

[Kennyb41]

So if we don't get promoted you'd let him stay?

Depends on how we're playing, or have played, and with what players, if i think we have decent players and it's the manager fcking up, then no, if i think he's doing ok and can see where he's going with it then yes.

[Kennyb41]

Phil Hay . . . . .

Say no more.