Joel Piroe

[1964white]

Gnonto was better than James v Leicester imo ... James got to play a tiring Leicester defence, that had to double team our three attacking elite all game, that freed up space for Paddy late on and he took advantage. I'm not a huge fan of Paddy's pressing, while he's chasing down a goalkeeper from 40 yards away ..(always coming in from the side weirdly) he's leaving holes behind and wearing himself out plus if the ball does come back quickly he's gonna be in an offside position. It doesn't work often ...

Bamford makes his move to press sideways when he knows other angles are covered by the likes of Summerville & James, you may not see the full picture on your screens, it's clever pressing which forces the opposition keeper to boot the ball up field.

[1964white]

Gnonto was better than James v Leicester imo ... James got to play a tiring Leicester defence, that had to double team our three attacking elite all game, that freed up space for Paddy late on and he took advantage. I'm not a huge fan of Paddy's pressing, while he's chasing down a goalkeeper from 40 yards away ..(always coming in from the side weirdly) he's leaving holes behind and wearing himself out plus if the ball does come back quickly he's gonna be in an offside position. It doesn't work often ...

Gnonto played very well in the first half, just like Piroe (twice), he missed the chance to put us in the lead. Willy was unlucky to be subbed but, Farke call it right as we got the victory in the end.

James doesn't need tired legs to show his worth, he's been brilliant this season, producing 10 goals & 8 assists.

Unlucky to lose his place in the first team, I love him & the way he has knuckled down after a traumatic two years at our club

[The Subhuman]

Bamford makes his move to press sideways when he knows other angles are covered by the likes of Summerville & James, you may not see the full picture on your screens, it's clever pressing which forces the opposition keeper to boot the ball up field.

Or more likely just pass out... There's nothing wrong by the way with the long ball out at times. Paddy needs to pick and choose his press.

[1964white]

Or more likely just pass out... There's nothing wrong by the way with the long ball out at times. Paddy needs to pick and choose his press.

He already does, Hermansen, Vestergaard & Faes were having a comfortable evening until the arrival of Paddy.

3 headers won
2 decent presses
1 held up the ball & lay-off
1 tackle
1 shot on target saved
1 deflected goal

[The Subhuman]

He already does, Hermansen, Vestergaard & Faes were having a comfortable evening until the arrival of Paddy.

3 headers won
2 decent presses
1 held up the ball & lay-off
1 tackle
1 shot on target saved
1 deflected goal

And they were just about shot when Paddy came on, Geo ran them rugged and even though they did their best to contain him he had the last laugh ...

I'm not sure why the forum has to keep turning on players.. I scored Paddy highly, I'd imagine I was one of the minority that had him in my 6 in the MOTM but that doesn't mean Piroe was poor, game circumstances changed

[Ben Scooby lufc]

Well at least a handful of us on here, realise the importance of Bamford, was always the case in Bielsa's team.

Paddy Bamford is a quality striker when he's full of confidence and our first season back in the top flight the last time proves that he's got the goods. He's a confidence player but unfortunately he had a lot of time off last year and then the relegation, and some of our fans directed tons of abuse at him.
He's still the best striker currently at the club.

[1964white]

And they were just about shot when Paddy came on, Geo ran them rugged and even though they did their best to contain him he had the last laugh ...

I'm not sure why the forum has to keep turning on players.. I scored Paddy highly, I'd imagine I was one of the minority that had him in my 6 in the MOTM but that doesn't mean Piroe was poor, game circumstances changed

Sorry, only one sublime pass & one decent pass suggests Piroe had a poor game.

One of the worst performances of the season, amongst a lot of average games.

There's a good reason why Farke felt he needed to shake things up as we approached January 2024, by bringing Paddy back into the No.9 position.

[Cjay]

Good post CJay.......

I'm a loyal Cjay, as Ali will tell you

[Cjay]

Appreciate the breakdown, and passion, Cjay. Joel is clearly very talented, but I do think we should be able to get even more out of him (allowing that this could be a time/adjustment issue).

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts, as well as others, on the tactical changes needed while he's on the pitch. I'm of the mind that having two very different strikers, or strikers with different styles, strengths/weakness, etc. is exactly the kind of problem we don't typically have and that we could further exploit to wreak havoc with other teams planning, defense set-up, etc.

I think as I said it is important to remember it took Bamford by his own admission 12 months playing under Bielsa and 2 pre seasons (the 2nd one very intense) to be able to do what Bielsa wanted.

Does Piroe have the fitness levels for Farke? Possibly not, same as Bamford didn't for Bielsa at first.

But as I pointed out before, Pukki was no great presser, he gave the impression of one as he was nippy and ran a lot but it was mainly pointless.

Paddy is similar, it's very rare he actually wins the ball back.

As for the pressing side, I would change the dynamics.

So if it was Leicester for example, Rutter concentrated on Winks and Piroe was asked to press the two cbs.

So Hermansen passes to Faes who passes to Vestergaard and Piroe runs between them and generally Winks drops to give them a 3rd pass.

I would say to JP, "Faes is your man", if he gets the ball you press him. I would then say to Georgie you stand between Winks and Vestergaard and as soon as the pass goes to Vestergaard you leave Winks and go. At this point Winks is free but he is easier to press from Faes than it is for Piroe to run between the two cbs so you say to Piroe as soon as the pass goes to Vestergaard you go to Winks. So now you are asking Piroe to press two players but stood closer together.

So basically I'd try to make Piroe's job easier by using Georgie and his superior pace and energy.

Asking JP to press 1 cb and the midfielder who drops to provide a passing option should be easier for him than asking him to shuttle run between two cbs.

I'd also say to Georgie as soon as Winks gets the ball you race back and help Piroe, ideally this forces Winks to go back to one of the cbs and we start again. If it goes to Faes then JP leaves Winks and off he goes, Rutter takes up his half way position between Vestergaard and Winks and so on.

I'd try and ask more of the players able to do it if that makes sense.

As for how you want him to play I think it requires effort from both the tactics and Piroe.

Piroe needs to learn to play as more of a 9 again.

His instinct to drop is partly born from being asked to play deeper by various managers I'd imagine like Farke and Russell Martin and partly a desire to get involved in play.

Nothing wrong with dropping and linking and holding up, Bamford does it its part of the job.

But what JP needs reminding Is he needs to mix it up more, remind him that he is our focal point, and so we need him available for that forward pass.

I'd actually encourage Joel to speak to his idol and ex coach, Ruud Van Nistelrooy.

He had a similar issue early in his career and by his own admission saw himself as a 10.

He had to learn and adapt but he still had that 10 skills (he's unfairly remembered as a goal hanger but he got 70+ assists in his career) he was a lot more rounded than people give him credit for but like Piroe maybe not the best presser or whatever.

So I'd encourage Joel to do that and ask him how he adapted his game for the different roles.

Get Piroe to watch clips of Pukki or Bamford and things like that.

And simple instructions like you stay within 10 yards of the opposition defence, you can drift all along that line but be within 10 yard of the back line. If that means in training you get a coaching staff to stand with the defence and literally tie a rope to Piroe 10 yards long so he knows where he needs to be and can't move more then so be it.

If as can happen one of the cbs goes off on a run at present Piroe has to run back with them. I'd stop that. 10 yards from the back line, if one of the cbs goes further its no longer your problem, you let him go. If a midfielder is within the 10 yards he is your man, if he isn't don't worry about it.

And as a club we can help by getting the ball forward quicker maybe so JP doesn't feel as inclined to drop.

But largely I think coaching can fix the issue, most of what JP does is instinct from playing deeper, it just needs training out of him a bit and his responsibility changing somewhat off the ball.


It all takes time, Piroe hasn't had that yet.

But if you look at his youth videos he's much more 9 like so it isn't that he can't do it.

[lufc1304]

Can't we recognise the importance of Bamford without slagging off a player who has been the most prolific goalscorer in the Championship over the last two seasons and already has 11 whilst predominantly being played out of position. Bigging up one player doesn't need to be offset by denigrating another. All Leeds Aren't We?

[weasel]

Well at least a handful of us on here, realise the importance of Bamford, was always the case in Bielsa's team.

Yes but realising the importance of Bamford doesn't need to slagging off Piroe. Like I have said they have differing strengths so to slag off Piroe because he doesn't do Bamford's pressing is unnecessary. I championed Bamford's all round game as loud as anyone and far louder than most when others wanted him dropped, I saw his importance to Bielsa's side. I always said he was a better fit than Nketiah despte Nketiah being far mire clinical, far faster etc. Because I wanted Bamford to start then it didn't mean I didn't respect what Nketiah brought to the side, we were lucky to have both and I'd certainly want Nketiah as a fantastic weapon off the bench and equally be delighted if he started if Bamford was injured or banned.

Piroe is effective for Leeds. Missing two chances doesn't mean he isn't a better finisher than Bamford. You yourself made the point Piroe has only 3 goals in his last 15 minutes, you specifically mentioned the penalty and I think it would be the most one-sided poll we'd ever have if we asked whether people wanted Piroe to take that penalty or Bamford. If Piroe doesn't score that then our 9 match winning run doesn't happen. That goal could be as crucial as Steve Hodge's goal against Liverpool for Wilko's title winners.

Whichever of them starts for Leeds up front I am delighted we have them, whichever of them comes off the bench and does well I am delighted we have them.

[weasel]

And they were just about shot when Paddy came on, Geo ran them rugged and even though they did their best to contain him he had the last laugh ...

I'm not sure why the forum has to keep turning on players.. I scored Paddy highly, I'd imagine I was one of the minority that had him in my 6 in the MOTM but that doesn't mean Piroe was poor, game circumstances changed

Seems some people just want to have a moan about a player. It is utterly pathetic. Piroe has had a good season, not a great season, and if we go up he will have been a big part of it.

[Cjay]

Well at least a handful of us on here, realise the importance of Bamford, was always the case in Bielsa's team.

So Bamford starts

Vs Rotherham

Or

Remember Leicester last season when we needed a victory, had he put that simple chance away we may have stayed up.

This season, Bamford is doing his best to keep us in the championship.

People wanted Bamford gone very recently.

But now he's the dogs bits and everyone always knew it apparently

The ironic bit is those defending Piroe now were the ones saying Bamford can't be judged on brief cameos earlier in the season when you and others wanted Paddy gone and wasn't good enough for more than brief cameos.

[Kennyb41]

Quite simply PB just puts himself about more intelligently than Piroe, you can't make players think the same, it is instinct, and PB's instinct to do something in the moment is just better than Piroe's thinking and movement, PB is also quicker off the mark over 20-30yds and that in itself can work wonders.

[Kennyb41]

Seems some people just want to have a moan about a player. It is utterly pathetic. Piroe has had a good season, not a great season, and if we go up he will have been a big part of it.

I have absolutely no problem at all with Piroe this season, he's been a great addition with bags of potential.

I have ONLY ever stated that PB is our No.1 guy for the lone role up top, Bert taught him it excellently, it unearthed a new PB that got chose for England on the back of it, I honestly believe if you stuck a 100% fit PB into the Arsenal team atm and they played a lone role, he could do it, and probably excel at it with quality around him, and in fact any decent Prem team that plays a lone man.

[Cjay]

Quite simply PB just puts himself about more intelligently than Piroe, you can't make players think the same, it is instinct, and PB's instinct to do something in the moment is just better than Piroe's thinking and movement, PB is also quicker off the mark over 20-30yds and that in itself can work wonders.

So we need to stop praising Bielsa for coaching Bamford and making him better then?

Either Bamford was massively improved by Bielsa and his coaching in his time here, in which case Farke should be able to coach Piroe who has shown Championship record wise he far exceeds Bamford before he got here in basically every way.

Or Bielsa did very little to help Bamford and it was all Bamford not the coach that made him better

Can't be both

[1964white]

Vs Rotherham

Or



People wanted Bamford gone very recently.

But now he's the dogs bits and everyone always knew it apparently

The ironic bit is those defending Piroe now were the ones saying Bamford can't be judged on brief cameos earlier in the season when you and others wanted Paddy gone and wasn't good enough for more than brief cameos.

Bamford was struggling with injuries & form then, now we are seeing the Paddy that served us well in our first season back in the Premier League.

[Kennyb41]

So we need to stop praising Bielsa for coaching Bamford and making him better then?

Either Bamford was massively improved by Bielsa and his coaching in his time here, in which case Farke should be able to coach Piroe who has shown Championship record wise he far exceeds Bamford before he got here in basically every way.

Or Bielsa did very little to help Bamford and it was all Bamford not the coach that made him better

Can't be both

Yes he can teach him.

That doesn't mean he'll learn.

[1964white]

Yes but realising the importance of Bamford doesn't need to slagging off Piroe. Like I have said they have differing strengths so to slag off Piroe because he doesn't do Bamford's pressing is unnecessary. I championed Bamford's all round game as loud as anyone and far louder than most when others wanted him dropped, I saw his importance to Bielsa's side. I always said he was a better fit than Nketiah despte Nketiah being far mire clinical, far faster etc. Because I wanted Bamford to start then it didn't mean I didn't respect what Nketiah brought to the side, we were lucky to have both and I'd certainly want Nketiah as a fantastic weapon off the bench and equally be delighted if he started if Bamford was injured or banned.

Piroe is effective for Leeds. Missing two chances doesn't mean he isn't a better finisher than Bamford. You yourself made the point Piroe has only 3 goals in his last 15 minutes, you specifically mentioned the penalty and I think it would be the most one-sided poll we'd ever have if we asked whether people wanted Piroe to take that penalty or Bamford. If Piroe doesn't score that then our 9 match winning run doesn't happen. That goal could be as crucial as Steve Hodge's goal against Liverpool for Wilko's title winners.

Whichever of them starts for Leeds up front I am delighted we have them, whichever of them comes off the bench and does well I am delighted we have them.

I posted Piroe scored a vital penalty.

And if it was a choice between Piroe or Bamford to take penalties, I would go for Piroe every time.

[The Subhuman]

Can't we recognise the importance of Bamford without slagging off a player who has been the most prolific goalscorer in the Championship over the last two seasons and already has 11 whilst predominantly being played out of position. Bigging up one player doesn't need to be offset by denigrating another. All Leeds Aren't We?

Apparently not, we have to have our scapegoats to make us feel superior ... I like and rate all our players atm, they all have different strengths... even Piroe, even Firpo....