Perspective

[weasel]

2005-2006 Juventus Series A Champions.

After a scandal they were then stripped of the title and actually relegated to Series B - the Italian version of our championship.
They still held on to several of their star players - Buffon, Nedved, Del Piero, Zanetti, Boumsong, Chielinni, Trezeguet etc. So effectively still the nucleus of the team that were actual Italian Champions. In 2006-2007 they lost 4 out of the 42 matches they played in Series B on their way to winning promotion.

Just shows that no matter how good a team is they can, and do, still lose matches especially when playing every match against opposition who see the match as their cup final.

We are far away from being anywhere near as good as that Juventus team were and apparently Series B is also a lot weaker than our Championship.

Oh and then you also have Man City losing to Norwich and Wolves this season.

[The Subhuman]

Nice try ...and I applaud you but you can't fight hindsight and I told you so...

[1964white]

Juventus lost 4 of their 42 matches

We've lost 3 of our first 11 matches. More losses are inevitable, Fulham & Brentford are likely bankers for the home teams next time we play them in London.

Only way we're going to compete at the top is by scoring goals, keeping clean sheets & winning football matches. Simple really, nothing to do with perspective!

[The Subhuman]

Juventus lost 4 of their 42 matches

We've lost 3 of our first 11 matches. More losses are inevitable, Fulham & Brentford are likely bankers for the home teams next time we play them in London.

Only way we're going to compete at the top is by scoring goals, keeping clean sheets & winning football matches. Simple really, nothing to do with perspective!

You missed the point, Juve had most of their championship winning team and still lost 4 games and Serie B is on a par with the SPL..BTW you want us to score goals but are happy with a non scoring CF?

[Muppet the Cat]

Who would you rather have up front Del Piero or Bambi ?????

[hector]

Who would you rather have up front Del Piero or Bambi ?????

Would rather have thumper than barn door bambi at the moment

[SG90]

I'm not sure I understand the point of this post. Also I don't buy the myth that the Championship is this great league. Whenever I watch games, I just think about how poor it is and we look levels above most of the contenders, yet we lose so many games.

[weasel]

Some fans seem to expect us to win every single game and win them comfortably too. Yet the same fans will lay into all the players after a defeat claiming they aren't good enough - yet still expect those players to win every game with ease. My point was that even a ridiculously good Juventus team, containing several world class players and indeed some players who not only had just won the Serie A title but also the World Cup managed to lose 4 times to teams in Series B. They would have been expected to win every match 5 or 6 nil (at least) such was the gulf in class between their players and the opposition players yet managed to lose 4 times.

We are nowhere near as far ahead of other teams ability wise as that Juventus team was. We have several starting players that would probably just get on the bench at some of our rival clubs. We have a team that under the guidance of Bielsa is far exceeding the level it should. Last year Derby had 3 players that are now all playing, and doing well, in the premiership and yet we outclassed them due to Bielsa in 3 1/2 out of 4 matches. We have our deficiencies but we have to learn to accept those and stop expecting to win every single match. If we were the equivalence of that Juventus side playing in Serie B then yes expect to win every game but we are not.

[Cjay]

. We have several starting players that would probably just get on the bench at some of our rival clubs. We have a team that under the guidance of Bielsa is far exceeding the level it should. Last year Derby had 3 players that are now all playing, and doing well, in the premiership and yet we outclassed them due to Bielsa in 3 1/2 out of 4 matches. We have our deficiencies but we have to learn to accept those and stop expecting to win every single match. If we were the equivalence of that Juventus side playing in Serie B then yes expect to win every game but we are not.

For the entire 2nd half of last season we accepted our deficiencies and waiting patiently for it to sort itself out, we ended up collapsing like no Championship leaders at Xmas have before. We should demand to win every game because thats the mentality the club needs to have, thats what clubs that achieve things think like. The main issue is our deficiencies are the worst kept secret in the world and the reason we didnt get promoted last season.

I fully agree that the side under Bielsa exceeded expectations. But why are we rewarding those players for failure? Thats whats wrong with this club, accepting mediocre and runners up.

Cooper and Ayling, deals dont run out until 2021, why have they had 4 and 5 year new expensive contracts? What have they done to deserve that? Fail.

Dallas, 4 year deal? Why? For finally showing the level of performance he has been lacking for the majority of his old deal. He deserved something for his form.this season, ok give him 1 year with the option of a 2nd.

If players want new deals then earn them, if the owners want promotion then show that sort of ambition.

Perspective is fine but after last seasons collapse i find it hard to take a balanced view, i dont actually think about it now often because it annoys me.

[SG90]

For the entire 2nd half of last season we accepted our deficiencies and waiting patiently for it to sort itself out, we ended up collapsing like no Championship leaders at Xmas have before. We should demand to win every game because thats the mentality the club needs to have, thats what clubs that achieve things think like. The main issue is our deficiencies are the worst kept secret in the world and the reason we didnt get promoted last season.

I fully agree that the side under Bielsa exceeded expectations. But why are we rewarding those players for failure? Thats whats wrong with this club, accepting mediocre and runners up.

Cooper and Ayling, deals dont run out until 2021, why have they had 4 and 5 year new expensive contracts? What have they done to deserve that? Fail.

Dallas, 4 year deal? Why? For finally showing the level of performance he has been lacking for the majority of his old deal. He deserved something for his form.this season, ok give him 1 year with the option of a 2nd.

If players want new deals then earn them, if the owners want promotion then show that sort of ambition.

Perspective is fine but after last seasons collapse i find it hard to take a balanced view, i dont actually think about it now often because it annoys me.

Completely agree with everything you said.

[SG90]

Some fans seem to expect us to win every single game and win them comfortably too. Yet the same fans will lay into all the players after a defeat claiming they aren't good enough - yet still expect those players to win every game with ease. My point was that even a ridiculously good Juventus team, containing several world class players and indeed some players who not only had just won the Serie A title but also the World Cup managed to lose 4 times to teams in Series B. They would have been expected to win every match 5 or 6 nil (at least) such was the gulf in class between their players and the opposition players yet managed to lose 4 times.

We are nowhere near as far ahead of other teams ability wise as that Juventus team was. We have several starting players that would probably just get on the bench at some of our rival clubs. We have a team that under the guidance of Bielsa is far exceeding the level it should. Last year Derby had 3 players that are now all playing, and doing well, in the premiership and yet we outclassed them due to Bielsa in 3 1/2 out of 4 matches. We have our deficiencies but we have to learn to accept those and stop expecting to win every single match. If we were the equivalence of that Juventus side playing in Serie B then yes expect to win every game but we are not.

I don't believe we are picking our best possible team. Is Harrison really our best winger? Based on what? How much longer can Bamford get picked without scoring when his job is to score? Why do we pick players out of position rather than give youth a chance in their actual position?

[SG90]

If the likes of Kun, Edmondson, Bogusz, Gotts, Struijk can't get a chance early in the season, then they never will.

[SG90]

Imo we should try different formations:
3-5-2: Kiko, Cooper, White, Phillips, Dallas, Alioski, Klich, Shackleton, Hernandez, Bamford, Nketiah - Dallas/Alioski as wingbacks, Bamford as a SS just behind Nketiah.
4-3-3: Kiko, Dallas, White, Cooper, Alioski, Phillips, Klich, Shackleton, Costa, Nketiah, Hernandez.

We're so boring and predictable.

[1964white]

For the entire 2nd half of last season we accepted our deficiencies and waiting patiently for it to sort itself out, we ended up collapsing like no Championship leaders at Xmas have before. We should demand to win every game because thats the mentality the club needs to have, thats what clubs that achieve things think like. The main issue is our deficiencies are the worst kept secret in the world and the reason we didnt get promoted last season.

I fully agree that the side under Bielsa exceeded expectations. But why are we rewarding those players for failure? Thats whats wrong with this club, accepting mediocre and runners up.

Cooper and Ayling, deals dont run out until 2021, why have they had 4 and 5 year new expensive contracts? What have they done to deserve that? Fail.

Dallas, 4 year deal? Why? For finally showing the level of performance he has been lacking for the majority of his old deal. He deserved something for his form.this season, ok give him 1 year with the option of a 2nd.

If players want new deals then earn them, if the owners want promotion then show that sort of ambition.

Perspective is fine but after last seasons collapse i find it hard to take a balanced view, i dont actually think about it now often because it annoys me.

Just as Eunan O'Kane has a contract with Leeds until 2021 from a previous management

[1964white]

Some fans seem to expect us to win every single game and win them comfortably too.

We've rarely won a game comfortably in 2019 Weasel

2-0 Derby
4-0 WBA
0-3 Reading......come to mind

[SG90]

Just as Eunan O'Kane has a contract with Leeds until 2021 from a previous management

That was also under Radz' ownership. And people wonder why I criticise him.

[1964white]

That was also under Radz' ownership. And people wonder why I criticise him.

Of course it was when we were handing out contracts like confetti

[Mick Jones shoulder]

What a strange comparison. I don't think anyone on this board wants us to fail but the deficiencies are plain to see, aren't they? I agree with a previous poster, play players in their correct position it helps massively. Bielsa plays very attractive football but I think he is Used to working with far better players than we currently have to offer, hence our problems.
Perspective we aren't as good as everyone thinks no shame in that chaps. Just a thought.

[SG90]

Of course it was when we were handing out contracts like confetti

I have no problem giving youngsters or key players new contracts, but journeymen like Cooper, Dallas and Ayling, who've been part of numerous failures and collapses, makes no sense. I see Shack and Bogusz only have 2 years left. What are we doing about that?

[Cjay]

What a strange comparison. I don't think anyone on this board wants us to fail but the deficiencies are plain to see, aren't they? I agree with a previous poster, play players in their correct position it helps massively. Bielsa plays very attractive football but I think he is Used to working with far better players than we currently have to offer, hence our problems.
Perspective we aren't as good as everyone thinks no shame in that chaps. Just a thought.

That for me sums it up, nothing wrong with the style of play after all it has done Atletico Madrid and Barcelona no harm.

But we are trying to play Beethoven's 5th symphony using the local village orchestra.

Wolves probably were the closest in terms of style to us in this league, they had top top level players in amongst more average ones like Coady, Douglas etc.

If we had the best players this league can buy we would walk it, but we dont.

And that for me is where our recruitment this summer fell down, arrogance, cheapness, stubbornness? All 3?

The fact we are talking about the same issues 6 7 8 months later to me indicates poor recruitment and that will cost us.