Leeds Utd v Southampton Match Thread

[weasel]

I'm finding it difficult to understand the severe criticism Farke is receiving from our fans.

I know he has made mistakes, but how many coaches are not prone to errors.

We could finish the 2023/24 with 93 points, we've had a very good season, a far more enjoyable than our previous two seasons in the Premier League.

Everyone is entitled to criticise and like you say Farke has made mistakes. Some fans need to step back a bit though and look at what we have actually done over the course of the season rather than the last 5 matches. I think I am right in saying that the points total Farke has achieved would have seen us promoted every season.

Also worth pointing out that we did the double over both promoted sides.

[Cjay]

So what you are saying is you set your dog a target that was impossible and then blamed her for not achieving it?

I expected her to poop many times which with the vast resources at her disposal was a perfectly reasonable expectation.

Long walk, lots of open space for poops and plenty of opportunity.

Unfortunately she decided not to poop and instead blamed the previous dogs for her lack of pooping when in fact that was irrelevant as this was now a different situation and targets change throughout the walk.

As I reduced My expectations of her pooping I realised by the end of it she would be full of sh1t.

[Cjay]

Marsch used tactics that even the most clueless tactician could see were rubbish. Farke's tactics have for the most part worked, We didn't adopt different tactics for the last 5 matches.

Hecky blamed the players for everything and basically said he'd get rid of them all. The players had already shown what they could do under Tomas Christiansen and then demonstrated it superbly under Bielsa. Even if you take the fact that Bielsa was a genius and use that as an excuse for Heckingbottom the same cannot be said as to why TC was able to get them playing well when he was derided by many of here. Farke hasn't blamed the players, he has mentioned things which are true, such as our lack of threat from set pieces, our lack of goals from midfield etc rather than saying the players are sh*t. Farke can quite rightly point to the fact that he has got 90 points which in most seasons would be good enough for promotion - as such what he has done with the cub this season would have achieved promotion every season apart from this. So whilst it appears he has failed it is like running the marathon and then being told that you won't get an award as they changed it from 26 miles to 30 miles.

Not talking about his tactics (all be it I don't think Marsch is all that different to Farke tactically). Attacks very narrow, full backs provide width and a focus on central attacks etc.

I don't find Farke as unbearable as Hecky or annoying as Marsch incidentally.

Point was what he said there "in September I didn't expect promotion". With 40 games left and only 5 points off the top he then felt promotion was unlikely? Bet he didn't tell the board that.

As soon as promotion got less and less likely Hecky did the same thing, he spoke about how difficult it was when he arrived and whatnot.

Marsch was the same, as soon as results turned he started telling us how awful it was when he arrived.

When do reasons become excuses?

He's blaming things he can control, set pieces, is that not within his control over a whole season?

Is a midfield not creating goals something he can control? Had a January window to rectify that if it was an issue.

These are excuses that he wouldn't even mention were we in the position Ipswich are in.

No chance he'd be saying the September promotion line.

I don't believe in Criticising one manager for one thing and not being fair all round.

[Broad Ford]

Everyone is entitled to criticise and like you say Farke has made mistakes. Some fans need to step back a bit though and look at what we have actually done over the course of the season rather than the last 5 matches. I think I am right in saying that the points total Farke has achieved would have seen us promoted every season.

Also worth pointing out that we did the double over both promoted sides.

Agreed. Farke has exceeded my expectations of just missing out on 6th place. A 3rd place finish is guaranteed along with an outside chance of clinching 2nd, if Huddersfield get an unlikely win.

My biggest worry is with the starting 11 and whether they are going to turn up to 2 big matches. If they do and perform like lions, an even bigger day awaits them in London. Turn up growling at the final and we could all end up celebrating success, whilst proclaiming Farke to be our new messiah.

We could also end up pointing the finger of accusation should the opposition make a tactical change introducing subs that deliver a cruel blow.

Saturday's game looks like the rehearsal of the final and could show us if the team are ready for the next big step. Transforming into lions, hungry, organised and ruthless.

[Irish Ian]

I fail to see what DF said today was so annoying

[Irish Ian]

Not talking about his tactics (all be it I don't think Marsch is all that different to Farke tactically). Attacks very narrow, full backs provide width and a focus on central attacks etc.

I don't find Farke as unbearable as Hecky or annoying as Marsch incidentally.

Point was what he said there "in September I didn't expect promotion". With 40 games left and only 5 points off the top he then felt promotion was unlikely? Bet he didn't tell the board that.

As soon as promotion got less and less likely Hecky did the same thing, he spoke about how difficult it was when he arrived and whatnot.

Marsch was the same, as soon as results turned he started telling us how awful it was when he arrived.

When do reasons become excuses?

He's blaming things he can control, set pieces, is that not within his control over a whole season?

Is a midfield not creating goals something he can control? Had a January window to rectify that if it was an issue.

These are excuses that he wouldn't even mention were we in the position Ipswich are in.

No chance he'd be saying the September promotion line.

I don't believe in Criticising one manager for one thing and not being fair all round.

Just thinking about the MF.

Interesting that for the last three seasons we have rightly been concerned with teams waltzing right through our MF.

This season Farke essentially fixes that and we start banging on about a lack of goals from midfield.

Probably unti Farke allows Gray to improve to the point of adapting to his skills as box to box we will sit with two or three ( Amps as well) non scoring def mids. Its a bit like Adam Forshaw revisted

[Sean_Nile]

Farke talks about experience being essential an cites Morsy at 34 for Ipswich, yet last night to see out the game Chelsea brought on two youngsters.

SUB: Josh Acheampong (18 years)
SUB: Jimi Tauriainen (20 years)

What a foolhardy decision, you need old heads to win a game... oh by the way Chelsea won 2-0

[The Subhuman]

Farke talks about experience being essential an cites Morsy at 34 for Ipswich, yet last night to see out the game Chelsea brought on two youngsters.

SUB: Josh Acheampong (18 years)
SUB: Jimi Tauriainen (20 years)

What a foolhardy decision, you need old heads to win a game... oh by the way Chelsea won 2-0

Morsy is basically Cooper, who he's had on the bench for most of the season, different position I know but not by much as both extremely experienced defensive players. So Farke has had that type of player at his disposal, could also cite Ayling as left back... Ampadu also has buckets of experience as he's been a mainstay in the Wales team for a while (51 caps)

I'm all for promoting youth if they're good enough especially as a fresh pair of legs later in the season.

[GreennWhite]

I fail to see what DF said today was so annoying

He didnt say a thing that was annoying, its just some people have it in for him, no matter what he says or does.
Hes been made to look like he sh**s on the players if things go wrong when all that he might have said after a bad result is " in certain areas of the pitch today we were not good enough " like all managers do. But some twist that into him throwing the players under a bus. He is the boss he is allowed to have a go at players when they dont perform. He admitted his own mistake in taking Bryam off in the last game, when its said he never does anything like that. This crap about not saying we will get promotion is just that, crap. Everyother manager in the same position and asked that question will do the usual manager thing and deflect the question. I have never heard a manager come out with statements like " of course we will be promoted, we are the best team in the league " they are more savy than that as they know they will be pulled up about it if they fail to get promoted. They all come out with the same well rehersed stuff that you hear year after year.
I do wish they would say exactly whats on their mind, it would make for more interesting viewing

[Irish Ian]

Farke talks about experience being essential an cites Morsy at 34 for Ipswich, yet last night to see out the game Chelsea brought on two youngsters.

SUB: Josh Acheampong (18 years)
SUB: Jimi Tauriainen (20 years)

What a foolhardy decision, you need old heads to win a game... oh by the way Chelsea won 2-0

You are really scraping the barrel now.

[BradWhite]

Re Farke.
The chaos with Orta then at finding a manager, a mass exodus of over paid under achieving Prima donnas, rebuilding a team and starting off the season all over the place, I find it hard to believe that Farke gets the crap from certain fans when we have 90 points chalked on, a guaranteed play off place and a slim chance of automatic promotion is still possible.

Yes we have had a dip in form, but at the start of a chaotic start to the season I am sure they would have taken a play off place back then, so to achieve 90 points is in my opinion is not bad, had we had a better start we'd have won this league.

Before a ball was kicked I predicted 6th with Leicester (1) and Southampton (2) getting auto.

My criticism of DF is the late subs because I don't think it's enough time to reorganise a side with 10 mins to go.

If we get promoted, will these fans get instant amnesia?

[Chilli D]

He’s walking his dog.
The dog hasn’t walked to the best of his ability.
There’s a post walk Press conference later when Cjay will deflect all blame from himself on to his dog.
The dog doesn’t listen he’ll say. He should’ve stopped the walk after 60 minutes.
The dogs wxt (walk expected turds) is way over what it should be. He’s not happy. Should’ve got a Labrador as they have better stats.

If the ŵxt is too high, surely he will deflect blame to the food the dog has been fed on?

[White Riot]

He didnt say a thing that was annoying, its just some people have it in for him, no matter what he says or does.
Hes been made to look like he sh**s on the players if things go wrong when all that he might have said after a bad result is " in certain areas of the pitch today we were not good enough " like all managers do. But some twist that into him throwing the players under a bus. He is the boss he is allowed to have a go at players when they dont perform. He admitted his own mistake in taking Bryam off in the last game, when its said he never does anything like that. This crap about not saying we will get promotion is just that, crap. Everyother manager in the same position and asked that question will do the usual manager thing and deflect the question. I have never heard a manager come out with statements like " of course we will be promoted, we are the best team in the league " they are more savy than that as they know they will be pulled up about it if they fail to get promoted. They all come out with the same well rehersed stuff that you hear year after year.
I do wish they would say exactly whats on their mind, it would make for more interesting viewing

Problem is GW that if they speak their minds they'll get disciplined. So they're pretty much obliged to come out with the same old neutral, non-committal tripe.

I just find all these press conferences to be regurgitation of the same questions and answers.

DF is experienced enough to play the game. E.G Can you tell us something about transfers? "I'm not gonna comment on transfers until they're done and dusted".

I'm way more interested in what goes on when the players are on the pitch. That's when coaches and players need to show what they're all about.

I'll take actions over words any day.

[Jaydog]

If the ŵxt is too high, surely he will deflect blame to the food the dog has been fed on?

Who fed the dog?

[Cjay]

Morsy is basically Cooper, who he's had on the bench for most of the season, different position I know but not by much as both extremely experienced defensive players. So Farke has had that type of player at his disposal, could also cite Ayling as left back... Ampadu also has buckets of experience as he's been a mainstay in the Wales team for a while (51 caps)

I'm all for promoting youth if they're good enough especially as a fresh pair of legs later in the season.

He complained about the experience and highlighted Ipswich experience.

Then said he didn't want to buy experience

So it's his fault then?

And then tried to make it sound like you establish yourself in the Premier League by staying in the Championship longer.

It's nonsense

[Cjay]

Just thinking about the MF.

Interesting that for the last three seasons we have rightly been concerned with teams waltzing right through our MF.

This season Farke essentially fixes that and we start banging on about a lack of goals from midfield.

Probably unti Farke allows Gray to improve to the point of adapting to his skills as box to box we will sit with two or three ( Amps as well) non scoring def mids. Its a bit like Adam Forshaw revisted

Doesn't have to be one or the other though does it?

You can have a solid midfield but an impactful one.

Having literally no goals from midfield in a league season must be some sort of record.

[Sean_Nile]

If the ŵxt is too high, surely he will deflect blame to the food the dog has been fed on?

As a stat the wxt is not to be relied on and should only be used if one knows the F-stop number of the asd (anal sphincter diaphragm) if the diaphragm is set to a wide aperture then it is more than likely only one large turd will be produced... conversely a small aperture could result in many small turds, or in extreme cases there will be jet propulsion of the dog because of explosive diarrhea.

I would have extreme caution when considering wxt especially when diarrhea is involved.

[GreennWhite]

Problem is GW that if they speak their minds they'll get disciplined. So they're pretty much obliged to come out with the same old neutral, non-committal tripe.

I just find all these press conferences to be regurgitation of the same questions and answers.

DF is experienced enough to play the game. E.G Can you tell us something about transfers? "I'm not gonna comment on transfers until they're done and dusted".

I'm way more interested in what goes on when the players are on the pitch. That's when coaches and players need to show what they're all about.

I'll take actions over words any day.

Fully agree with you White Riot, regarding the pressers, its mostly a waste of time, and would better not having them and just put out a statement via the club
Farke is no different from all the other managers up and down the country. Looks good when its going well, says all the right things, and then when it goes wrong they cant say anything or they are hammered about it. A lot of better managers than Farke have been in exactly the same position and they are so well schooled in it that it just comes out without them having to think about what they say. Of course he has made mistakes, they all do,but he is getting trashed for stuff that he does, and trashed for things that he doesn't do. The problem is if we get rid of him the same thing will happen to the next manager, and one after that, when things don`t go quite right. No one is prepared to wait for things to happen these days, they want it now or yesterday. Lets give him another year ( assuming that we don`t get promoted ) and then see how we go.

[Irish Ian]

He complained about the experience and highlighted Ipswich experience.

Then said he didn't want to buy experience

So it's his fault then?

And then tried to make it sound like you establish yourself in the Premier League by staying in the Championship longer.

It's nonsense

I think you can spin what DF says all you want but just because he mentioned their lack of experience you suggest he he complaining about it. He is talking about building something that wall stand the test of time a bit longer than what he have had previously and what DF had at Norwich which was a yoyo club situation.

If you look at anything with such a critical eye nothing will ever make any sense imo

Funnily enough one of the recent TMB podcasts mentioned that they levelled the same thing at Revie.

[White Riot]

Fully agree with you White Riot, regarding the pressers, its mostly a waste of time, and would better not having them and just put out a statement via the club
Farke is no different from all the other managers up and down the country. Looks good when its going well, says all the right things, and then when it goes wrong they cant say anything or they are hammered about it. A lot of better managers than Farke have been in exactly the same position and they are so well schooled in it that it just comes out without them having to think about what they say. Of course he has made mistakes, they all do,but he is getting trashed for stuff that he does, and trashed for things that he doesn't do. The problem is if we get rid of him the same thing will happen to the next manager, and one after that, when things don`t go quite right. No one is prepared to wait for things to happen these days, they want it now or yesterday. Lets give him another year ( assuming that we don`t get promoted ) and then see how we go.

Yeah, to be honest I am prepared to give him another year if we don't go up. But obviously, regardless of the club's situation and his qualified "success" this season, the expectation will be much higher: i.e. automatic promotion or I expect he will be sacked next season. From his press conference, and rumours coming out of the club, it's fair to say that he's already been told he will be in charge irrespective of us not getting promotion this season.

I think that's why you see him looking so relaxed in the face of adversity.

We are probably in the best hands possible with DF at the moment. I don't know who we would attract to replace him that would be an obvious improvement at this level? But make no mistake there is a clear expectation from the club that we will achieve promotion asap. He does seem to have a long term plan, which is encouraging. But I still have serious doubts about his ability at EPL level, at times those were allayed this season, but they've all been reinforced by our recent results.

I do believe that Daniel has been provided with sufficient resources to get us promoted this season, so I would view missing out on promotion as short term failure. If, as he indicates, we are taking a long term approach to achieving EPL status and retaining it permanently, then I can tolerate short term pain.

But I do agree with the wise and logical analysis of Cjay, that this season is our very best opportunity to achieve promotion. After this the parachute payments reduce, the impact of the interest on our debts will increase, and we will not be able to offer as strong a squad to DF as the one he currently has at his disposal. The longer we languish at this level the harder it will be to get promoted, as we won't have the finances and quality of players available as we do now The Championship is littered with examples of clubs who are stuck at this level.

I still desperately hope we can get promoted this season, as the club, and especially our brilliant supporters deserve much better than what we've endured for several decades.