Leeds Utd v Southampton Match Thread

[weasel]

Don’t get me wrong I’m not suggesting the changing room has gone. It’s in response to your post that football is a funny old game. A good result followed by a bad one. Our dip is worse than that.
And I’m not anti Farke. The international break has a lot to answer for imo.
So much is made of squad quality which I suppose is backed up by the position of Leicester, us & Soton but little old Ipswich had to f**k it up with their not so expensive squad.
On Sky last night they said something like “McKenna always knows what his team will look like at the end of a game”.
Interesting quote. So his philosophy is less about the other team and more about who he wants on the pitch depending on the score.
He seems far more organised on that front than Farke.

Ipswich likely had less disruption during international breaks but they had a huge wobble too. Perhaps us playing first took the pressure off them because by the time they had to play Hull and Coventry they knew two draws or one win would put them in the driving seat so they didn't have to go all out for it - if they had to chase the win v Hull they may have gambled with subs and lost as perhaps we did with the Blackburn game. They got the draw v Hull and then knew a draw v Coventry was okay and as such a lot of pressure was off once again.

McKenna also has a squad that he has built. Bielsa's Leeds improved second season as the players were used to his tactics rather than us bringing loads of players in and similarly Ipswich players know their roles and the tactics inside out and McKenna has been able to bring players in where needed. Farke's Norwich side did nothing first season and even struggled at the start of his second season before it all came together, perhaps that would have happened with Munchengladbach if he'd got a second season there. So maybe even if we stay down we can be stronger next season as several players will leave which will hopefully give Farke the opportunity to bring in the players he wants and more importantly players who fit his system better. We were playing catch-up in the transfer market last summer having to react rather than being able to go out and get the players we wanted early in the window.

[weasel]

We don't beat Boro at all if the linesman gives the offside call

Isn't this the part of the season where DF is meant to be the expert? He's waffled on about not looking at the table till matchday 40, he's ballsed that up since.

Also a big fan of making excuses? Blaming refs, international break, quoting xG, talking about what he's done before and how he knows this and that.

Same things previous managers have been criticised for?

Don't remember him ever taking responsibility for a defeat either

His first response is always what the players didn't do.

Not once can I remember him taking sole responsibility.

He deflects.

Just once I wish someone would ask him "why he has been unable to get the impact from the bench others have".

And why his away setup has seen us concede 18 goals in the first 50 minutes this season? Compared to Ipswich 15 and Leicester 7 Southampton 12 West Brom 17.

Only Norwich concede more, so why does DF think that is? Is that something he does wrong?

Best comparison I've heard is he is the German Southgate.

It is impossible to say how the Boro match goes without the offside goal. If it had been in the 90th minute and basicall the last kick of the match then maybe. Without the goal maybe different subs, maybe different tactics etc.

A lot of what Farke says is common sense. He gives reasons rather than excuses.

The impact from the bench is another stat that can be totally manipulated and twisted to suit. Let's say we judge it on recovering points from losing positions when the first sub was made. Now if you were losing 10 times and made substittuions that improved the result twice then it isn't a great record, 20% but it can be seen as earning 4 points from losing positions (let's ignore any draws for this scenario). Now if you were losing just twice when you made susbstitutions and you went on to win one of those matches then you have a 50% record of getting it right but have only earned 2 points from losing positions. So you can use whichever conclusion you want to either prove success or failure - despite using the same set of results.

[The Subhuman]

I don’t rate Southgate at all so it’s definitely an insult.
Is that a Freudian slip or have you just coined a new name for Farke. Fake & Bamfraud I suppose some people will say.

It was a slip tbf ...

[weasel]

Best comparison I've heard is he is the German Southgate.

The trouble is that Southgate has a lot of great players and has dragged them down. Farke has probably made players look better than they are. It is easy to say we have this great squad but the truth is somewhat different

We have an average keeper.

We have had a left back that despite the Barcelona sh*te has been poor for 2 years and injury prone. Yes we paid big money but for the most part we'd have been happier to see free agent Byram start there. Farke has got the best out of Firpo.

We had a right back that mosr fans wrote off. Farke spotted that Ayling wasn't theplayer he was and took the option to play Gray there. Yes Gray has potential, more so in midfield, but he has been exposed at times at right back. Don't forget that Farke wanted Aarons, signed Spence and also Roberts. 3 rightbacks tell you that Farke didn't have the right back he wanted.

Ampadu - great signing and full credit to Farke for that as I hadn't heard of him. So we finally have a position where we have a player that is better than average for the division despite him having to play there due to injuries.

Rodon - another great signing and someone that again is better than average for the division. However again the credit is due to Farke for picking up a player from the scrapheap.

CM Gruev and Kamara - Both are decent but hardly setting the world on fire. Good signings perhaps not great signings but value for money I guess.

LW James or Gnonto - yes we clearly have an advantage here although it has to be said Gnonto was non existent for half of the season and James needed to have his confidence restored.

RW Summerville - yes again we have a far better than average player for the division. Summerville has his strengths and weaknesses but statistically has had a pretty good season. Credit to Farke for giving him license to do what he wants.

No.10 Rutter - Emperor's new clothes spring to mind and how he got into the team of the season baffles me. Yes he has had a very good amount of assists, not many of late, and Farke has had to find a role for him where his lack of goals isn't as important.

No 9 Piroe/Bamford - Bamford was on the scrapheap but Farke has got the best out of him. Bamford is doing what Bamford does albeit with less pace than he used to have. Piroe hasn't had the season we'd have expected but if Farke brings in the players he want then Piroe might flourish instead of having to feed on scraps.

We have a team that has some parts that are better than other teams but also some weaknesses. We're certainly not England esque playing against a load of minnows and Farke has also proven that he can get results against the 'big teams' having done the double over the 2 teams that look like getting promoted. This is a strak contrast to Southgate who comes unstuck against the better teams.

[Ellandback1]

Saturday 4th May 12:30pm | Elland Road


Leeds have only a glimmer of a chance of automatic promotion when the Saints visit Elland Road on Saturday lunchtime for the season finale! The Whites need to beat Southampton, and for relegated Huddersfield Town to beat Ipswich at Portman Road if they are go get promoted via the automatic route, which is highly unlikely.

Speculation is growing over what kind of line-up both teams go with (Leeds and Southampton). This could very well be the dress rehearsal for the play off final, and both Managers will be keen to gain any kind of advantage over the other in what many expect to be the play off final at Wembley!





Leeds will not risk Dan James until the play off's. The explosive winger is suffering from a costal cartilage injury (a rib injury). Long term injury casualty Pascal Struijk is joined on the sidelines by Jamie Shackleton. Just like James, Patrick Bamford (bruised knee) and Connor Roberts (muscular issue) are unlikely to be risked over what is expected to be a dead rubber. Glen Kamara may come in to midfielder to give Ilia Gruev a rest! There is also talk of Liam Cooper starting his final match for Leeds Utd at the expense of Joe Rodon who continues to take main killing injections for a back injury.

Southampton will be missing Ross Stewart, Stuart Armstrong, Gavin Bazunu and Juan Larios. Adam Armstrong, Che Adams and Flynn Downes could all potentially return having missed the loss to Stoke last weekend at St Mary's.



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[danhirons]

stranger things have happened than huddersfield beating ipswich! i mean we lost 4 nil to qpr a few days ago...

granted it's unlikely, but we have to goabsolutely all out on Saturday as if it's a cup final

[CUSSIE01]

The trouble is that Southgate has a lot of great players and has dragged them down. Farke has probably made players look better than they are. It is easy to say we have this great squad but the truth is somewhat different

We have an average keeper.

We have had a left back that despite the Barcelona sh*te has been poor for 2 years and injury prone. Yes we paid big money but for the most part we'd have been happier to see free agent Byram start there. Farke has got the best out of Firpo.

We had a right back that mosr fans wrote off. Farke spotted that Ayling wasn't theplayer he was and took the option to play Gray there. Yes Gray has potential, more so in midfield, but he has been exposed at times at right back. Don't forget that Farke wanted Aarons, signed Spence and also Roberts. 3 rightbacks tell you that Farke didn't have the right back he wanted.

Ampadu - great signing and full credit to Farke for that as I hadn't heard of him. So we finally have a position where we have a player that is better than average for the division despite him having to play there due to injuries.

Rodon - another great signing and someone that again is better than average for the division. However again the credit is due to Farke for picking up a player from the scrapheap.

CM Gruev and Kamara - Both are decent but hardly setting the world on fire. Good signings perhaps not great signings but value for money I guess.

LW James or Gnonto - yes we clearly have an advantage here although it has to be said Gnonto was non existent for half of the season and James needed to have his confidence restored.

RW Summerville - yes again we have a far better than average player for the division. Summerville has his strengths and weaknesses but statistically has had a pretty good season. Credit to Farke for giving him license to do what he wants.

No.10 Rutter - Emperor's new clothes spring to mind and how he got into the team of the season baffles me. Yes he has had a very good amount of assists, not many of late, and Farke has had to find a role for him where his lack of goals isn't as important.

No 9 Piroe/Bamford - Bamford was on the scrapheap but Farke has got the best out of him. Bamford is doing what Bamford does albeit with less pace than he used to have. Piroe hasn't had the season we'd have expected but if Farke brings in the players he want then Piroe might flourish instead of having to feed on scraps.

We have a team that has some parts that are better than other teams but also some weaknesses. We're certainly not England esque playing against a load of minnows and Farke has also proven that he can get results against the 'big teams' having done the double over the 2 teams that look like getting promoted. This is a strak contrast to Southgate who comes unstuck against the better teams.

A good positive post Weasel, more positives than negatives for me over this season and pretty hopeful for next season whatever league we’re in. I can hear the knives being sharpened & the guns locked & loaded though so prepare for the incoming flak.

[CUSSIE01]

stranger things have happened than huddersfield beating ipswich! i mean we lost 4 nil to qpr a few days ago...

granted it's unlikely, but we have to goabsolutely all out on Saturday as if it's a cup final

Agree with that, yes, rest the players that need it or are carrying injuries but there’s plenty at stake in this game. What if we put out half a team and don’t win and Hudds pull off a miracle, can you imagine the flak DF would get on here ? Equally there’s a need for a confidence boost before the play offs and another defeat for Southampton will dent theirs. There’s over a week to the play offs so ample time for players to have a rest and recover, need to go for it.

[Cjay]

It is impossible to say how the Boro match goes without the offside goal. If it had been in the 90th minute and basicall the last kick of the match then maybe. Without the goal maybe different subs, maybe different tactics etc.

A lot of what Farke says is common sense. He gives reasons rather than excuses.

The impact from the bench is another stat that can be totally manipulated and twisted to suit. Let's say we judge it on recovering points from losing positions when the first sub was made. Now if you were losing 10 times and made substittuions that improved the result twice then it isn't a great record, 20% but it can be seen as earning 4 points from losing positions (let's ignore any draws for this scenario). Now if you were losing just twice when you made susbstitutions and you went on to win one of those matches then you have a 50% record of getting it right but have only earned 2 points from losing positions. So you can use whichever conclusion you want to either prove success or failure - despite using the same set of results.

That Is a manipulation depending on your perspective.

You could say that for any manager really.

When a manager says "the players didn't do X, Y and Z" . That's either a deflection or common sense depending on how you want to read it.

If a trend happens in the same situation at some point that stops being the players fault imo.

The subs are bonkers and late.

And often cost us because he just abandons any sense of structure and plan (its basically Sunday League stuff).

Chuck on all your attackers and hope.

It's cost us more than once being caught on the break, Sunderland, Blackburn.

But what's worse is he let's games drift, he's never made a 1st half change, he rarely makes a half time one.

He uses his bench poorly, then asks players like Anthony or Gelhardt who have barely played all season to come on and change the game as he did vs QPR which was pure desperation.

[White Riot]

I don’t rate Southgate at all so it’s definitely an insult.
Is that a Freudian slip or have you just coined a new name for Farke. Fake & Bamfraud I suppose some people will say.

Yesss, well done Jay

Fake and Fraud and their counterfeit football

Pleased you mentioned, you're gonna be seeing a lot of that on here

The German Southgate is also a classic, Cjay you need to copyright that mate

[White Riot]

A good positive post Weasel, more positives than negatives for me over this season and pretty hopeful for next season whatever league we’re in. I can hear the knives being sharpened & the guns locked & loaded though so prepare for the incoming flak.

My knives are already sharp as a razor Cussie and the guns are locked and loaded

Especially after that pitiful debacle at QPR.

It's time for these fkn bottle jobs to redeem themselves and the only way they do that is winning the play-offs.

So, over to you Daniel and Co, let's be having you

[Cjay]

The trouble is that Southgate has a lot of great players and has dragged them down. Farke has probably made players look better than they are. It is easy to say we have this great squad but the truth is somewhat different

We have an average keeper.

We have had a left back that despite the Barcelona sh*te has been poor for 2 years and injury prone. Yes we paid big money but for the most part we'd have been happier to see free agent Byram start there. Farke has got the best out of Firpo.

We had a right back that mosr fans wrote off. Farke spotted that Ayling wasn't theplayer he was and took the option to play Gray there. Yes Gray has potential, more so in midfield, but he has been exposed at times at right back. Don't forget that Farke wanted Aarons, signed Spence and also Roberts. 3 rightbacks tell you that Farke didn't have the right back he wanted.

Ampadu - great signing and full credit to Farke for that as I hadn't heard of him. So we finally have a position where we have a player that is better than average for the division despite him having to play there due to injuries.

Rodon - another great signing and someone that again is better than average for the division. However again the credit is due to Farke for picking up a player from the scrapheap.

CM Gruev and Kamara - Both are decent but hardly setting the world on fire. Good signings perhaps not great signings but value for money I guess.

LW James or Gnonto - yes we clearly have an advantage here although it has to be said Gnonto was non existent for half of the season and James needed to have his confidence restored.

RW Summerville - yes again we have a far better than average player for the division. Summerville has his strengths and weaknesses but statistically has had a pretty good season. Credit to Farke for giving him license to do what he wants.

No.10 Rutter - Emperor's new clothes spring to mind and how he got into the team of the season baffles me. Yes he has had a very good amount of assists, not many of late, and Farke has had to find a role for him where his lack of goals isn't as important.

No 9 Piroe/Bamford - Bamford was on the scrapheap but Farke has got the best out of him. Bamford is doing what Bamford does albeit with less pace than he used to have. Piroe hasn't had the season we'd have expected but if Farke brings in the players he want then Piroe might flourish instead of having to feed on scraps.

We have a team that has some parts that are better than other teams but also some weaknesses. We're certainly not England esque playing against a load of minnows and Farke has also proven that he can get results against the 'big teams' having done the double over the 2 teams that look like getting promoted. This is a strak contrast to Southgate who comes unstuck against the better teams.

I didn't make the Southgate comparison tbh, I've just seen it elsewhere, think it's actually pretty accurate.

People have gone back and forth with the squad, the consensus though of our opposition in this league is its massively above a normal Championship squad, depth and pedigree wise.

Leeds fans have a habit of talking the players down, we've all done it, but in context with a normal Championship squad ours is massively above the pedigree you get at this level.

Again you can manipulate it any way you like (I get accused of this as well)

But Firpo was one of the best attacking wing backs in La Liga hence why Barcelona signed him.

Spence and Roberts were both in different seasons the best right back in the league.

Rodon earned a £20mil move from this league because of how good he had been in it.

Ampadu is an odd one, bounced around but he's been considered extremely gifted since he was literally a child.

Kamara and Ampadu (cost £11mil for a start which is more than most of the league spent in total this summer. Both experienced internationals with Europa League and Champions League experience.

Gnonto, Summerville, James obviously levels above. Gnonto was none existent because Farke kept bringing him off the bench with 10 minutes to go and expecting miracles (did the same with Bamford and Firpo). Those who said they needed more time were shouted down at the time.

Georgie is clearly talent wise levels above this league, but he needs coaching (something that DF hasn't done as he is still making the same mistakes he did at Hoffenheim). Is it credit to DF for stumbling on a role or credit to DF in general for his performances? Who knows but DF said he was a winger, then played him as a striker now plays him as a 10.

Piroe and Paddy are proven top level Championship strikers (divide opinion of course) but most clubs would be happy with 1 we have both.

Then you throw in Anthony whose barely been used but was one pf the top wingers in the league a few seasons ago.

Struijk who people have raved about for years and is destined for higher things.

Or Cresswell (sorry but DF treatment of him is a disgrace, completely wasted a year of his career) who was a regular for the 5th best defence in the league last season.

So you can manipulate our squad however you feel fit, but outside this fanbase it's considered very strong and top 2 level.

But anyway this was one of the many DF Soutgate posts below.

I think they are quite accurate tbf.

The setup Is very similar, it is safety first football, it is quite boring unless Bellingham or a Rutter does something.

And It has been for Southgate (hopefully not Farke for our sake) ultimately unsuccessful.

They both have been found lacking in big games (be it tournaments or run ins). They both struggle to manage games or impact them positively when it isn't working.



Farke at Leeds is just like Southgate with England. 

Took over a difficult situation and has done well at man management and leading them out of a s**t period, but ultimately they're too conservative and lack the tactical nous to get over that final hurdle. . . . . 

I've said this a lot lately. What's extraordinary about this is people don't see it. You've also not named the most obvious comparison; We literally line up the exact same way. Farke and Southgate play the exact same way.

The defence and defensive midfielders ONLY exist to win the ball back, control the game and then give it to one of the talented ones upfront, hoping that someone will do something good in the moment. This is why we're the first team ever to win so many games with ZERO goal contributions from midfield.

It's mindboggling when you think about it...

Leeds United got to 93 points doing it.

England got to their first final in 55 years doing it.

Now take out 2 or 3 important players from England, say Kane, Saka and Bellingham. Can you see them replicating that accomplishment?

That's what is coming next season for this Leeds team when we lose 2-3 Critically important players and Farke tries to coach his way to perform better than this year to get us up.

That's the rational, objective reason for questioning his stewardship next year.

Can we expect him to outperform results this year with fewer tools and to overcome his inability to influence games through match plans and in game substitutions

[weasel]

That Is a manipulation depending on your perspective.

You could say that for any manager really.

Not really. Kevin Blackwell and Paul Heckingbottom were masters of defelcting blame away from themselves. I don't see that with Farke, maybe you do.

When a manager says "the players didn't do X, Y and Z" . That's either a deflection or common sense depending on how you want to read it.

If a trend happens in the same situation at some point that stops being the players fault imo.

Or alternatively you then go out and buy a player to replace that player. Like I have said previously he inherited the majority of these players and has had to fit them as best he can into his system and adjust his system to get the best out of them.

The subs are bonkers and late.

And often cost us because he just abandons any sense of structure and plan (its basically Sunday League stuff).

Chuck on all your attackers and hope.

It's cost us more than once being caught on the break, Sunderland, Blackburn.

But what's worse is he let's games drift, he's never made a 1st half change, he rarely makes a half time one.

He uses his bench poorly, then asks players like Anthony or Gelhardt who have barely played all season to come on and change the game as he did vs QPR which was pure desperation.

The subbing is what it is. Making changes in the first half is rarely done by any managers, remember the shock when Bielsa did it with KP. I can only recall doing it once as a manager where our young right back was getting torn to shreds and we were 2-0 down after about 15 minutes. It was the right choice from a tactical point of view although one of the senior players really took the hump with me doing it and left the club shortly afterwards along with the young lad. It is not something to be done lightly.

As a manager I'd want to get to half time, address the problems and then give the same set of players the chance to put it right. Give them 10, 15 minutes and then if they aren't doing better make the change. His approach is logical to me in terms of the first substitutions.

I agree with you that at times we have overloaded with too many attackers, and not enough creativity. However it worked v Norwich, worked for MU in the European Cup Final etc. I would prefer it to be a one off than a repeated tactic.

Gelhardt and Anthony were maybe the hail marys when everything else had been failing previously. If it comes off you look like a genius. With Bamford and James both being unavailable though Gelhardt and Anthony were the next men up rather than simply being a crazy act.

[Cjay]

My knives are already sharp as a razor Cussie and the guns are locked and loaded

Especially after that pitiful debacle at QPR.

It's time for these fkn bottle jobs to redeem themselves and the only way they do that is winning the play-offs.

So, over to you Daniel and Co, let's be having you

Any excuse will do

[White Riot]

Any excuse will do

Grosna putka as they say in Bulgarian

[Cjay]

Not really. Kevin Blackwell and Paul Heckingbottom were masters of defelcting blame away from themselves. I don't see that with Farke, maybe you do.

Can't remember much about Blackwell tbh, Hecky was a useless twot who deflected onto the players at every opportunity.

But you could say Farke does if so inclined? He's used xG to defend himself which by its very design as I've said before will always point to an individual issue over a tactical one. Something Marsch was heavily critised for even recently kn those podcasts.

He's said " the players didn't do this or that (duels or whatever). Basically not following his instructions, that's something Marsch and Hecky often did.

Managers tend to use the same words generally then it's upto interpretation to read between the line depending on your perspective.



Or alternatively you then go out and buy a player to replace that player. Like I have said previously he inherited the majority of these players and has had to fit them as best he can into his system and adjust his system to get the best out of them.

He's bought in 10 players, how many more do you need? He has conplete control over transfers, he's said as much himself as has Kinnear. So the squad is what he wanted, the signings are what he wanted.

Yes he wanted Amiri, but then clearly wasn't that bothered judging by the lack of January window so must have been happy with what he had?

Strongly disagree he has changed the system to suit. We can agree to disagree on that but this style is exactly what I expected from watching his previous teams (all be it I didn't expect it to be quite so dull and slow).



The subbing is what it is. Making changes in the first half is rarely done by any managers, remember the shock when Bielsa did it with KP. I can only recall doing it once as a manager where our young right back was getting torn to shreds and we were 2-0 down after about 15 minutes. It was the right choice from a tactical point of view although one of the senior players really took the hump with me doing it and left the club shortly afterwards along with the young lad. It is not something to be done lightly.

It doesn't have to be a sub though, Bielsa and many top managers may just switch formation in game or alter the setup or tactical plan (use the right hand side of the pitch more for example, let the right winger keep his width). But DF doesn't, its the same plod plod plod no matter how the games going. We could all see QPR going wrong within the first 15 minutes, they had too much space and were passing around us at will, he did nothing.



As a manager I'd want to get to half time, address the problems and then give the same set of players the chance to put it right. Give them 10, 15 minutes and then if they aren't doing better make the change. His approach is logical to me in terms of the first substitutions.

His subs are usually 70 minutes or beyond, so even the 10-15 minute thing which is quite common tbf isn't his way. He waits longer than any manager to make his 1st change (something Sky and Phil have repeated).



I agree with you that at times we have overloaded with too many attackers, and not enough creativity. However it worked v Norwich, worked for MU in the European Cup Final etc. I would prefer it to be a one off than a repeated tactic.

As a hail Mary, a once in a blue moon hope for the best I get it. But its his only tactic, that is his plan. That shows for me a real lack of tactical intelligence.



Gelhardt and Anthony were maybe the hail marys when everything else had been failing previously. If it comes off you look like a genius. With Bamford and James both being unavailable though Gelhardt and Anthony were the next men up rather than simply being a crazy act.

But it's throwing on players you've barely used all season for a few minutes and hoping for miracles. It's like if we have to use CC in the playoffs, the lad has barely kicked a ball all year, DF doesn't let them play u21 football so they are completely undercooked.

That then goes back to me on what has been his poor squad use.

Like when he was chucking on Bamford and Gnonto for 10 minutes before New year and they weren't able to do anything. Lead to both getting right stick, miraculously once given a decent chance they did very well generally or atleast better.

Which brings me to the talking down of our players to defend Farke, many did it to both Gnonto and Bamford (and I get they both have attracted frustration for various reasons).

But they aren't poor players, certainly not at this level. Neither is Anthony, or Cresswell, or Piroe, I don't think he has used the squad well this season or many of the players.

Piroe has been shoved all over the place, Summerville was a right winger then an attacking midfielder then finally the position he's always played. Rutter was a winger, then absolutely definitely a striker according to Df, now he's a 10 like most said months before he moved him.

Gray isn't a right back or a defensive midfielder.

It's almost lime he stumbles around and falls into things that work with little plan or thought.

[weasel]

I didn't make the Southgate comparison tbh, I've just seen it elsewhere, think it's actually pretty accurate.

People have gone back and forth with the squad, the consensus though of our opposition in this league is its massively above a normal Championship squad, depth and pedigree wise.

Stronger in some areas but certainly not all over the pitch as I pointed out in my balanced assessment.

Leeds fans have a habit of talking the players down, we've all done it, but in context with a normal Championship squad ours is massively above the pedigree you get at this level.

Again you can manipulate it any way you like (I get accused of this as well)

But Firpo was one of the best attacking wing backs in La Liga hence why Barcelona signed him.

Ah so you are saying every signing we have made has lived up to their pedigree? If you polled a million Leeds fan you would only find one fan who would have wanted Firpo to be our first choice left back this season. Just because of a fee paid or cos he was at a big club doesn't mean they are the best or better than league average. You can't just judge a team's strength by the money they have wasted.

Spence and Roberts were both in different seasons the best right back in the league.

And your point? Neither were ours. Spence was injured so made no difference to us. If we'd had Roberts all season, ala Rodon, then maybe it could have been judged as a position of strength, however right back has been a weakness to us at times despite Gray's obvious ability.

Rodon earned a £20mil move from this league because of how good he had been in it.

Again that is like you judging Firpo because Barca signed him. Farke has got Rodon playing to presumably the best of his ability.

Ampadu is an odd one, bounced around but he's been considered extremely gifted since he was literally a child.

Kamara and Ampadu (cost £11mil for a start which is more than most of the league spent in total this summer. Both experienced internationals with Europa League and Champions League experience.

Gnonto, Summerville, James obviously levels above. Gnonto was none existent because Farke kept bringing him off the bench with 10 minutes to go and expecting miracles (did the same with Bamford and Firpo). Those who said they needed more time were shouted down at the time.

I think Gnonto was none existent because his head wasn't right and as such Farke quite rightly gave him limited opportunity to prove himself and Gnonto repeatedly failed.

Georgie is clearly talent wise levels above this league, but he needs coaching (something that DF hasn't done as he is still making the same mistakes he did at Hoffenheim). Is it credit to DF for stumbling on a role or credit to DF in general for his performances? Who knows but DF said he was a winger, then played him as a striker now plays him as a 10.

Yes talent and potential etc. Give me a past his prime Hernandez for a season instead of Georgie if my job was to get promotion in a on eyear spell. In my opinion Farke has been trying to find Rutter's best position but it is a tough one as he could be a good 9 but is worse than Bamford at finishing, he could be a good 10 but gives the ball away too much, he could be a good winger etc. Clearly there is a player there who on his day is amazing but far too many off days whereby any player, such as Ashley Barnes at Burnley, would be a better player.

Piroe and Paddy are proven top level Championship strikers (divide opinion of course) but most clubs would be happy with 1 we have both.

Paddy was broken, his body shot. I doubt many championship teams would have wanted him if we gave him away on a free and agreed to pay his wages. Piroe is the conundrum but build a team around him and I think he will do great for us.


Then you throw in Anthony whose barely been used but was one pf the top wingers in the league a few seasons ago.
I wonder if a lot of the time Farke has been managing the human side of things with Anthony given his personal issues. For me I would love to see Anthony back and starting next season once Summerville goes.

Struijk who people have raved about for years and is destined for higher things.

And injured for half the season. Is he destined for higher things? Did we turn down offers for him in the summer?


Or Cresswell (sorry but DF treatment of him is a disgrace, completely wasted a year of his career) who was a regular for the 5th best defence in the league last season.

So you'd have dropped Rodon?

So you can manipulate our squad however you feel fit, but outside this fanbase it's considered very strong and top 2 level.

But anyway this was one of the many DF Soutgate posts below.

I think they are quite accurate tbf.

The setup Is very similar, it is safety first football, it is quite boring unless Bellingham or a Rutter does something.

And It has been for Southgate (hopefully not Farke for our sake) ultimately unsuccessful.

They both have been found lacking in big games (be it tournaments or run ins). They both struggle to manage games or impact them positively when it isn't working.



Farke at Leeds is just like Southgate with England. 

Took over a difficult situation and has done well at man management and leading them out of a s**t period, but ultimately they're too conservative and lack the tactical nous to get over that final hurdle. . . . . 

I've said this a lot lately. What's extraordinary about this is people don't see it. You've also not named the most obvious comparison; We literally line up the exact same way. Farke and Southgate play the exact same way.

The defence and defensive midfielders ONLY exist to win the ball back, control the game and then give it to one of the talented ones upfront, hoping that someone will do something good in the moment. This is why we're the first team ever to win so many games with ZERO goal contributions from midfield.

It's mindboggling when you think about it...

Leeds United got to 93 points doing it.

England got to their first final in 55 years doing it.

Now take out 2 or 3 important players from England, say Kane, Saka and Bellingham. Can you see them replicating that accomplishment?

That's what is coming next season for this Leeds team when we lose 2-3 Critically important players and Farke tries to coach his way to perform better than this year to get us up.

That's the rational, objective reason for questioning his stewardship next year.

Can we expect him to outperform results this year with fewer tools and to overcome his inability to influence games through match plans and in game substitutions

Unlike you I think losing a few of our players isn't the disaster that you paint. If we lose Messlier but get a steady keeper we might be losing a potential great keeper but be stronger next season. If we took Messlier's age out of the equation then would anyone be keeping him (pun intended)?

If we lose Firpo but gain a steady full back, re Byram mark 2 but without the injuries then we maybe lose a bit offensively but gain a bit defensively. We maybe also sign a right back such as Conor Roberts and strengthen there.

Ampadu hopefully stays. There might be premier league interest but he signed a lengthy deal and it wasn't like we were guaranteed promotion.

Rodon likely leaves and gets a prem move. A big miss without doubt but then maybe we end up with a defence containing 2 of Struyjk, Ampadu and Cresswell = or maybe we sign someone else.

So we likely strengthen keeper, both full backs but are a bit weaker in central defence given those potential departures.

Into midfield and we have Gruev, Kamara, Gray and Ampadu (if not in defence). I wouldn't expect any of those 4 to leave, Gray will attract attention but I feel he would be happy to stay at least another season like KP did after we failed to get promoted - if not it would give us plenty of money to spend. The biggest weakness has been our lack of goals from midfield so potentially Gray being there helps that but hopefully we'd also sign someone who can add goals and assists.

The wings and I would expect Gnonto and Summerville to leave. Dan James may stay. Like mentioned before if we were to re-sign Anthony as our first choice left winger I would be happy. Otherwise we should hopefully get decent money for Gnonto and Summerville and perhaps could sign someone like Jack Clarke. It may be that we lose some of our goal threat there but perhaps we also get players who play more for the striker and create more chances for him. Dan James for me was the only winger who was looking to put balls into the box more often than he was looking to shoot.

No.10 So we lose Rutter and for me I am totally not bothered. I am still waiting for the end product. If we get a decent fee then at least it cancels what we'd owe for him FFP wise etc. Hopefully we then sign someone decent, someone who gets double digit goals and weighs in with a few assists.

No.9 We maybe see the re-emergence of Piroe with players looking to create chances for him.

So for me a lot of positives in terms of us being stronger despite losing a few 'stars' that are suppsoedly too good for this division.

[Cjay]

Farke's here - team news?
We have our long-term injuries, Dallas, Struijk, also James will definitely miss the game. Big question behind Roberts, first day today involved in parts of team training, definitely not 90 minutes.

Big question behind Bamford, no full training yet. We still have hopes with a late decision he is perhaps available. Not sure how many minutes.


Play-offs in mind for selection?
No. We never take risks with any players because health is paramount. If you risk a player and pray he delivers, you have to earn your spot in training during the week. Not possible to be in the squad. We are not thinking about after the last game. We know it's a small chance to go into the top two, but if there is a chance we go for it. One thought: be there with a good performance and best possible result.

Some help from somewhere else is needed. Even for the play-offs, a win this weekend is needed to take us into that,

Players' reaction?
As you would expect. All disappointed. Analyse the next day, train, still disappointed. Normally Saturday don't want to get out of bed or talk about football, but you have to. After speaking about the things and training, it helps. Since the beginning of the new week we are ready to go. Good week so far. No guarantee you win the next game, Cannot guarantee a firework of football.

Have to be at our best to beat Southampton. Carefully optimistic we can bring this training into the game


How critical were you?
Like I always am. I never play psychological games. They get plaudits when we play well and if they were poor we are more critical. Players want honesty, no games. Friday was not good and I had to be critical, but remembered the bigger picture and what these lads have done. We are not the finished end product with a young side.

Honest appraisals of QPR - what went wrong?

We were not brave at all in our compactness in the pressing. First goal we conceded. Offensive players tried to press and the midfield line did not move up. We had too much desire to not concede and stood off them. Second goal: felt like not competitive enough,. we had all our players behind the ball, but let him get a clean finish off.

Second half, two set-pieces and the game was done. Critical with myself because I took Byram off at 2-0 and this was a mistake. I thought at this moment, second game in four days, we know his injury CV, wanted an offensive player on the pitch like Mateo Joseph to turn the game. What happened? We concede a third goal where Byram would normally be at the set-piece. This is where Mateo was involved. Fourth goal was where Sam Byram would be too.


Had you expected the team to finish this off before the break?

I don't want to hide away from this. Always need to be self-critical. Went away from being at our best at the back. First thing is holding our hands up. Few things out of our control for the run-in. You need a bit of luck a few times, but we could not influence a few things. Key players like Roberts and Gruev and Gnonto back with injuries. Rutter needs the surgery. All four struggling to get back into rhythm. The schedule could not be influenced. The run-in, Monday and Friday with a few injuries, need some luck.

We didn't have Connor Roberts or Daniel James available, best season in his whole life, Bamford important at Boro. Struijk, we forget we play without our cornerstone in the defence. Sometimes you look at Ipswich, the schedule is not great for them, two weeks without a game and three games in seven days. Credit to them, they are doing fantastic. That two weeks does them a favour: Hirst, Burns are all back. Playing teams with busy schedules too.

We do not raise the white flag after QPR. It would fit this crazy season if there was a late twist and if not we are the first to congratulate Ipswich. We hope to have more of our key players back for the play-offs. Every day helps Rutter after his surgery.


When you stop doing the basics how do you ensure it does not happen again?

This feels like a play-off game already. We need to win this and be there with good defensive behaviour. No doubt about this. Several things you do. Be honest about what went wrong. Be self-critical. Our physio and rehab department as good as possible to get players back. This behaviour on the training pitch. When we have one week to prepare, normally we have always delivered. When we struggle is conceding too many on a quick turnaround, like last week with two away games.

Time on the training pitch we are always better. Gives me hope. This week is not a guarantee, but a good situation to improve this behaviour. In the offence, we scored four at Boro, but need to show better consistency. Last four games, three times without scoring.


Impressive season - how much Saturday about showing resolve?

It's a chance to finish top two. We want to try it. If we manage to win it would equal this club's record points tally in this league. If we don't manage it, it's important to win for the confidence and mood for the play-offs. We know we play one of the best sides in Southampton. They have nothing to lose and will play with freedom.

We have conceded too many goals and lost our record as the best defence in this league.



Backing players not in form for Saturday?
In general, I don't have the feeling players have let me down. Important to not lose nerves and ook at bigger picture. All pretty self-critical after QPR. No question we were in this mood, but when I see the bigger picture, I signed a contract 11 months ago to create something really special.

Three seasons of PL football in 20. Fantastic first season under Marcelo, but then two years of struggle and relegation. Not an established PL side. I signed a long-term contract to bring this club back to the big stage, PL, and not stay there for one good season. Want to establish us there. Bigger picture with our key people. I was aware it would be tricky in the first season.

We would go for it and it would be difficult, once I came in and saw all the details, it was worse than I expected. After 10 games in September, the window closed, if you told me we would be after 45 games safe in the play-offs, finish no worse than third, a theoretical chance on the last day for top two, I would be a really happy man. Sounds like a dream.

If you then told me 90 points I would have said you're kidding, because that would be enough to be in the top two in every other year. This incredible work of my lads puts us in this position. Better run-in after the IB we could be even more comfortable, in command in the lead. Some reasons why we did not get these results, but we have to see the bigger picture. I understand the criticism.

I am no depressed. I am positive and optimistic and excited about what lies ahead and that's Saturday. We go for it. If it does not work in the top two, we were chasing all season virtually. We were never in control. Far away from depression. Great we are still after 45 games with the chance to get into the top two. I want to surprise everyone on the final day and if not then we have the play-offs.

I would have said no chance of promotion, privately, in September. We did not buy success. I know it's more likely when you have experience. You know why Bayern is in the semis. They are experienced. Same with Real Madrid. They know you need experience. We are one of the youngest sides in the whole league. My starting midfield at QPR, Gruev is 23, first season here and Archie, 18, first season.

I know we are not the finished product and make mistakes or get nervous and over-excited. Struggling to criticise my players. I would not swap Archie with anyone in this league. More potential than any player in this league in this position. Kieran done outstanding work. They play with Morsy and Luongo, 34 and lads in these positions before. They know tactical fouls. Morsy with 14 yellows. You need this experience.

I would have said in September how hard it would have been because of our average age. I don't want to buy experience for one season and then we go back down,. We want to do it sustainably. If that means being patient, then so be it. I don't have it all that players have let me down. We still have a chance.

A chance we mix it up, but I do not need to be too critical too much of these lads. They have all my backing.

[Cjay]

Unlike you I think losing a few of our players isn't the disaster that you paint. If we lose Messlier but get a steady keeper we might be losing a potential great keeper but be stronger next season. If we took Messlier's age out of the equation then would anyone be keeping him (pun intended)?

If we lose Firpo but gain a steady full back, re Byram mark 2 but without the injuries then we maybe lose a bit offensively but gain a bit defensively. We maybe also sign a right back such as Conor Roberts and strengthen there.

Ampadu hopefully stays. There might be premier league interest but he signed a lengthy deal and it wasn't like we were guaranteed promotion.

Rodon likely leaves and gets a prem move. A big miss without doubt but then maybe we end up with a defence containing 2 of Struyjk, Ampadu and Cresswell = or maybe we sign someone else.

So we likely strengthen keeper, both full backs but are a bit weaker in central defence given those potential departures.

Into midfield and we have Gruev, Kamara, Gray and Ampadu (if not in defence). I wouldn't expect any of those 4 to leave, Gray will attract attention but I feel he would be happy to stay at least another season like KP did after we failed to get promoted - if not it would give us plenty of money to spend. The biggest weakness has been our lack of goals from midfield so potentially Gray being there helps that but hopefully we'd also sign someone who can add goals and assists.

The wings and I would expect Gnonto and Summerville to leave. Dan James may stay. Like mentioned before if we were to re-sign Anthony as our first choice left winger I would be happy. Otherwise we should hopefully get decent money for Gnonto and Summerville and perhaps could sign someone like Jack Clarke. It may be that we lose some of our goal threat there but perhaps we also get players who play more for the striker and create more chances for him. Dan James for me was the only winger who was looking to put balls into the box more often than he was looking to shoot.

No.10 So we lose Rutter and for me I am totally not bothered. I am still waiting for the end product. If we get a decent fee then at least it cancels what we'd owe for him FFP wise etc. Hopefully we then sign someone decent, someone who gets double digit goals and weighs in with a few assists.

No.9 We maybe see the re-emergence of Piroe with players looking to create chances for him.

So for me a lot of positives in terms of us being stronger despite losing a few 'stars' that are suppsoedly too good for this division.

Will respond to your points after my dog walk but that press conference has pissed me off no end, that's what I'm talking about.

He's doing exactly what Hecky did.

Talking expectations down (no chance of promotion in September) .

Everything he said about what went wrong is deflected onto the players, literally everything, at no point does he talk about himself in that respect except to big up his own achievements.

Then talks about the past just like Hecky used to and how we haven't been in the playoffs and such!!!!!!

Did not buy success with one of the largest budgets in the league and 30+ million spent.

Playing down our expectations to try and make his achievements sound better?

Seriously can't you see the Hecky in that press conference?

Genuinely not a Farke thing just read that press conference, can't you see it?

We were one of the two original Hecky dissenters.

So I'm genuinely shocked if you can't see it in that press conference? Thats the most obvious it's ever been

[CUSSIE01]

My knives are already sharp as a razor Cussie and the guns are locked and loaded

Especially after that pitiful debacle at QPR.

It's time for these fkn bottle jobs to redeem themselves and the only way they do that is winning the play-offs.

So, over to you Daniel and Co, let's be having you

I’d be disappointed if you weren’t Riot, keeps them on their toes .