The return of the cowards?

[Chilli D]

Sinisterra definitely.
A class above anyone else we currently have.The others weren't and that's the difference. He would have bagged at least 15 goals this season had he stayed.
Would you not have Raphinha back just because he went to Barcelona?

[whiteswan]

I don't want any of them back. Wages? They make enough. And because they got us relegated, they could have taken the cut for a year in an effort to redeem themselves for what they did last season.

Very good point andrew.

[geronimo]

You had Gnonto guaranteed to go to Everton this window too, didn't you? What happened??

Let's face it, you have no idea what's likely to happen in future.

I know gnonto and Summerville won't be playing in the championship next season with Leeds if you think otherwise your deluded fella

[Finnatic]

Harrison for the same reasons as others, but I hovered over the None option for a few seconds.

[Cjay]

I just don't get why they are being labelled as cowards. Stay at Leeds and be on 40% or 50% of the wages agreed in your contract or go to another club and get 100% of the wages. Not one of us would stay in our job if we suddenly had to take a 50% to 60% wage cut and could stay on our original wages by moving to a different company where we'd be doing the same job.

The club basically gave them no option but to leave. I'm sure any of our other players such as Ayling, Cooper, Messlier etc would have gone too if another club wanted them on laon and would pay the high wages we agreed to give them. Nobody no matter how loyal would stay on half wages if someone else was willing to pay them their full wages.

As such for me it boils down to who is good enough that I'd want them back. Aaronsen, Roca, RK and Llorente simply weren't good enough and as such I wouldn't want them back. Wober and Sini I probably would have if they were better than what we have. Despite it rankling a bit with the manner in which they left they both played well for us. Personally though I'd probably look to sell them just because of the way they left. Harrison I would welcome back. Gave his all for us despite inconsistent performancs. The club treated him badly with the on/off Leicester move and the only disappointment for me was that he didn't get a move to a better club than Everton

It can't be compared to what one of us would do though.

It's a different level of money to what most if not everyone earns here (apart from you Waitrose shoppers).

Given those deserting are the reason we are in this mess because they couldn't do their jobs on the pitch I don't see a hardship in earning £20,30,40k a week compared to £40,,60,80k.

[Cjay]

Sinisterra definitely.
A class above anyone else we currently have.The others weren't and that's the difference. He would have bagged at least 15 goals this season had he stayed.
Would you not have Raphinha back just because he went to Barcelona?

Sinisterra was going to sue the club to leave for Bournemouth.

Raphinha gave his absolute all to save us from relegation even though it put his dream move to Barcelona at risk

Not comparable really imo.

[BobHirst]

I still don't understand the hatred for the players.
The "bad guys" in this situation are the one(s) who provided the "get out of relegation free cards" to the players. The players used what was given to them to maintain their level of income, which we would all do, unless you are an idiot.

I wouldn't have any of them back. They are either not good enough (like Aaronson, Rocca) or too injury prone (like Sini).
Why is Junior still here? Because he is both.

[Lufc76Cor]

Sinisterra was going to sue the club to leave for Bournemouth.

Raphinha gave his absolute all to save us from relegation even though it put his dream move to Barcelona at risk

Not comparable really imo.

Agreed, a completely different situation altogether, what Sinistera done or threatened to do will never be forgiven but Raphinha would always be welcome

[herefordbornleedsboy]

It can't be compared to what one of us would do though.

It's a different level of money to what most if not everyone earns here (apart from you Waitrose shoppers).

Given those deserting are the reason we are in this mess because they couldn't do their jobs on the pitch I don't see a hardship in earning £20,30,40k a week compared to £40,,60,80k.

Couldn't agree more CJay. A lot of these guys earn more in a week than a lot of the fans do in a year. Similarly if some of us were as s**t at our jobs as they were at theirs last year we wouldn't take a 50% pay cut we'd be out on our ears.
For me it's about integrity, they got us into the mess by their apathetic performances and therefore should have been man enough to get us out of it!

[Barlow Boy]

Couldn't agree more CJay. A lot of these guys earn more in a week than a lot of the fans do in a year. Similarly if some of us were as s**t at our jobs as they were at theirs last year we wouldn't take a 50% pay cut we'd be out on our ears.
For me it's about integrity, they got us into the mess by their apathetic performances and therefore should have been man enough to get us out of it!

I always thought there should be some sort of rule whereby those players who get relegated with a team, are obligated to stay with that team for another season.

Obviously, it will never happen. Most just jump ship and move on.

[weasel]

It can't be compared to what one of us would do though.

It's a different level of money to what most if not everyone earns here (apart from you Waitrose shoppers).

Given those deserting are the reason we are in this mess because they couldn't do their jobs on the pitch I don't see a hardship in earning £20,30,40k a week compared to £40,,60,80k.

MAte I totally get the fact that they earn obscene amounts of money but if you or were me were put in a job where we were earning say £40k per week and then had the wage cut scenario we'd jump ship even though we were earning more money than we could spend. It is just the way it is and these players are gicen the opportunity to set themselve and their family up. If Revie's team were offered pay rises that doubled their money they would have jumped ship - you do what is best for you financially. If it is a small amount of difference then you stay.

The blame is with the club. Likely we overpaid to get them to sign, even though they weren't exactly superstars, and then put the clauses in. If the clauses weren't in you can bet that the club would have been looking to sell them so it isn't like the club would have shown them loyalty. I think if it was something like a 20% wage reduction but say with a promise of a big bonus if we got promoted then some might have stayed. Making them take such a big pay cut will quite rightly have had the agents lining up clubs before we got relegated so as to protect their clients.

It is just the way the world works and plenty of people in other walks of life getting paid a fortune and getting bonuses despite underperforming.

[Prisoner37]

I've just finished reading Peter Lorimer's auto biography. He does say any of that team could have gone elsewhere for more money.

However, they knew they were playing with the best team in the land with the best manager, so more money elsewhere didn't swing it.

It's a fascinating read.

[weasel]

I've just finished reading Peter Lorimer's auto biography. He does say any of that team could have gone elsewhere for more money.

However, they knew they were playing with the best team in the land with the best manager, so more money elsewhere didn't swing it.

It's a fascinating read.

Big difference though is that it likely wouldn't have been a huge amount more, there simply wasn't as much money in the game. So why would you leave the team where you have had success, leave your mates, uproot your family, go to a team that might not play a way that suits you etc for something that might be the equivalent of say £20 a week more in today's money?

It wasn't just Leeds I bet there were probably only a couple of players on average moving from each club per season back then.

You just need to look back to the early 90s to see how different the game was when we were able to get players to drop down a division because we could offer them significantly more than they were on. Could you imagine a Gordon Strachan dropping down a division to join us now?

[Aussieleeds]

MAte I totally get the fact that they earn obscene amounts of money but if you or were me were put in a job where we were earning say £40k per week and then had the wage cut scenario we'd jump ship even though we were earning more money than we could spend. It is just the way it is and these players are gicen the opportunity to set themselve and their family up. If Revie's team were offered pay rises that doubled their money they would have jumped ship - you do what is best for you financially. If it is a small amount of difference then you stay.

The blame is with the club. Likely we overpaid to get them to sign, even though they weren't exactly superstars, and then put the clauses in. If the clauses weren't in you can bet that the club would have been looking to sell them so it isn't like the club would have shown them loyalty. I think if it was something like a 20% wage reduction but say with a promise of a big bonus if we got promoted then some might have stayed. Making them take such a big pay cut will quite rightly have had the agents lining up clubs before we got relegated so as to protect their clients.

It is just the way the world works and plenty of people in other walks of life getting paid a fortune and getting bonuses despite underperforming.

So, here’s a difference. The average worker doesn’t bang on about their “pride in their tie” or “pride in their high vis”. If it is as you say, let’s not hear footballers talking about how loyal they are to the team, the fans and the club. Let’s hear them stand up and say they’re just here for the money and NOTHING else.

Unlike most workplaces, it was precisely the performance (or lack thereof) of these players that has caused other less well paid people (staff etc) to lose their jobs. Not one of them was prepared to take any responsibility.

I can’t imagine an engineer who’s performance caused a company to lose millions, having the gall to think it was ok to take another job and then come back after someone else had fixed things?

This idea that no one else in the world matters except “you and you family” is BS. I’m sure every Russian oligarch is just “doing what is best for [them] financially, right? Every billionaire landlord evicting poor families so they can get more rent is just doing the right thing by their own families, right? Your comment about Revie-era players is just plain speculation and likely totally wrong. Those players had totally different values and had real pride in the shirt. Here’s an example:

Eg Madely: In his autobiography, Right Back to the Beginning, Revie's successor Jimmy Armfield related a telling story about Madeley negotiating a new contract: "He once actually signed a new contract on what was virtually a blank piece of paper. I called him in to discuss terms and opened discussions by saying, 'OK, Paul, we'll give you so much'. He replied that he had no intention of leaving Leeds so he might as well sign the contract and let me fill in the details. I said, 'What do you want, then, two years or three years?' He answered, 'Either way, I'll leave it to you. I just want to play for Leeds,' and that was that."

[weasel]

So, here’s a difference. The average worker doesn’t bang on about their “pride in their tie” or “pride in their high vis”. If it is as you say, let’s not hear footballers talking about how loyal they are to the team, the fans and the club. Let’s hear them stand up and say they’re just here for the money and NOTHING else.

Unlike most workplaces, it was precisely the performance (or lack thereof) of these players that has caused other less well paid people (staff etc) to lose their jobs. Not one of them was prepared to take any responsibility.

I can’t imagine an engineer who’s performance caused a company to lose millions, having the gall to think it was ok to take another job and then come back after someone else had fixed things?

This idea that no one else in the world matters except “you and you family” is BS. I’m sure every Russian oligarch is just “doing what is best for [them] financially, right? Every billionaire landlord evicting poor families so they can get more rent is just doing the right thing by their own families, right? Your comment about Revie-era players is just plain speculation and likely totally wrong. Those players had totally different values and had real pride in the shirt. Here’s an example:

Eg Madely: In his autobiography, Right Back to the Beginning, Revie's successor Jimmy Armfield related a telling story about Madeley negotiating a new contract: "He once actually signed a new contract on what was virtually a blank piece of paper. I called him in to discuss terms and opened discussions by saying, 'OK, Paul, we'll give you so much'. He replied that he had no intention of leaving Leeds so he might as well sign the contract and let me fill in the details. I said, 'What do you want, then, two years or three years?' He answered, 'Either way, I'll leave it to you. I just want to play for Leeds,' and that was that."

There is no point comparing it to other jobs it simply doesn't compare. Like you say fail at football and get a move, fail at another job and likely you wouldn't get offered anothe rjob doing the same thing. It is simply unrealistic to expect anybody to simply take a 50% pay cut and then not leave when offered the full amount. 5%, 10% maybe even 20% and they maybe stick around.

My 'comment' about the Revie era team is based on the fact that Leeds were one of, if not, the biggest wage payers in the country. The wages though weren't vastly different to other wages for other jobs. Get a big move and maybe the incentive is that the other club buys you a new car, not a Ferrari esque but something akin to a Ford Escort. The Leeds players loyalty was likely similar to Wober's loyalty, he was loyal until he suddenly got offered his full wages by another club, if the Revie players got offered a huge amount more then it would be naive to think they wouldn't have moved, Gordon McQueen did and likely Liam Cooper would too if he got a Saudi offer and then didn't get injured.

As for Madeley he was happy at Leeds, happy with the wages, knew he likely wouldn't get much more elsewhere so he just trusted the club to do right by him. This was a time before agents.

[The Subhuman]

There is no point comparing it to other jobs it simply doesn't compare. Like you say fail at football and get a move, fail at another job and likely you wouldn't get offered anothe rjob doing the same thing. It is simply unrealistic to expect anybody to simply take a 50% pay cut and then not leave when offered the full amount. 5%, 10% maybe even 20% and they maybe stick around.

My 'comment' about the Revie era team is based on the fact that Leeds were one of, if not, the biggest wage payers in the country. The wages though weren't vastly different to other wages for other jobs. Get a big move and maybe the incentive is that the other club buys you a new car, not a Ferrari esque but something akin to a Ford Escort. The Leeds players loyalty was likely similar to Wober's loyalty, he was loyal until he suddenly got offered his full wages by another club, if the Revie players got offered a huge amount more then it would be naive to think they wouldn't have moved, Gordon McQueen did and likely Liam Cooper would too if he got a Saudi offer and then didn't get injured.

As for Madeley he was happy at Leeds, happy with the wages, knew he likely wouldn't get much more elsewhere so he just trusted the club to do right by him. This was a time before agents.

My uncle Jim was courted by Fulham at 17/18 as they wanted him to play alongside then replace Johnny Haynes... (he was that good.) But turned down a pro contract as his fiancé didn't want him away every other weekend and the money offered not much more than what he was already earning. I also knew a bloke that was offered first class cricket with Warwickshire, but it was a lot less wages than his engineering apprenticeship

Money in sport is a relatively new phenomena... You can't compare the 60's and 70's with modern day..

[DDB220]

I will just remind folk of the Gnonto thread when his down tools saga started. Lots of never want to see him in the shirt again, rat, scum etc etc.

Weasel is right they left for money, all they did was activate their contractual rights.

Would you have preferred they stayed and we made a couple of signings ?? Would people have preferred Rasmus as one of our RB options and no Spence.

Will we see any of them in a Leeds shirt again - I wouldn’t rule it out.

Personally, I am not into all this player loyalty concern - 95% of players chase the £.

[Pullhard]

These players got us relegated, went down with a whimper and are damaged goods to an extent.
My immediate reaction, which by default has strong emotional input, is they can all take a long hike.

A more rational me asks who can make us a better team. Wober and Harrisson are the only players who tick that box. Sini is constantly injured … a physios dream.

[malcolmw]

My uncle Jim was courted by Fulham at 17/18 as they wanted him to play alongside then replace Johnny Haynes... (he was that good.) But turned down a pro contract as his fiancé didn't want him away every other weekend and the money offered not much more than what he was already earning. I also knew a bloke that was offered first class cricket with Warwickshire, but it was a lot less wages than his engineering apprenticeship

Money in sport is a relatively new phenomena... You can't compare the 60's and 70's with modern day..

Didn't Lucas Radebe take a pay cut at one stage to stay with Leeds?

[malcolmw]

There is no point comparing it to other jobs it simply doesn't compare. Like you say fail at football and get a move, fail at another job and likely you wouldn't get offered anothe rjob doing the same thing. It is simply unrealistic to expect anybody to simply take a 50% pay cut and then not leave when offered the full amount. 5%, 10% maybe even 20% and they maybe stick around.

My 'comment' about the Revie era team is based on the fact that Leeds were one of, if not, the biggest wage payers in the country. The wages though weren't vastly different to other wages for other jobs. Get a big move and maybe the incentive is that the other club buys you a new car, not a Ferrari esque but something akin to a Ford Escort. The Leeds players loyalty was likely similar to Wober's loyalty, he was loyal until he suddenly got offered his full wages by another club, if the Revie players got offered a huge amount more then it would be naive to think they wouldn't have moved, Gordon McQueen did and likely Liam Cooper would too if he got a Saudi offer and then didn't get injured.

As for Madeley he was happy at Leeds, happy with the wages, knew he likely wouldn't get much more elsewhere so he just trusted the club to do right by him. This was a time before agents.

I dont really have anything against the players who left - I agree some should never have been acquired in the first place, and some played hard for Leeds - Harrison for example.
I just don't think any should come back to the squad as they were part of a season and squad culture that was not positive.
We all need to move on with the new players, and focus on acquiring those on loan if they perform well for the rest of the season.