Never mind white smoke rising, black smoke is billowing across Beeston

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News Article Never mind white smoke rising, black smoke is billowing across Beeston

Post by YorkshireSquare »



There is not so much a plume of white smoke rising from Elland Road, as promised by Andrea Radrizzani two weeks ago, as black smoke billowing across Beeston as the board set fire to the legacy left by Marcelo Bielsa.

I’ve been generally supportive of the current board, after all they have been fairly sane and successful compared to previous regimes, not that that’s difficult. There have been errors of judgement of course; Myanmar, that badge and Jean-Kévin Augustin to name a few. But overall, the positives had outweighed the negatives and they got one big decision right, the appointment Marcelo Bielsa. It was a balsy move but dragging Leeds United out of the Championship after 16 years needed a balsy move and it paid off.

For three great seasons Leeds United had an identity, a philosophy that all the fans could get behind. Most importantly we were winning football matches. With Premiership football regained, a ninth place finish in 2020-2021 gave the club a solid platform to build on. But the board didn’t heed the warnings of ‘second season syndrome’ and failed to invest significantly in the right areas during the summer of 2021. With Victor Orta reportedly already tracking Jesse Marsch perhaps they were holding back until their brought their new man in next summer.

With Bielsa’s side floundering amidst an unprecedented injury crisis, the board yet again failed to invest in January despite supporters crying out for much needed reinforcements. As Leeds spluttered further through February 2022 the board made their move, out went Bielsa and in came Marsch. The new coach, we were told, was a natural successor to Bielsa, the one to evolve the team and take us forward. Whist Marsch did keep us up, I’m still not convinced Bielsa would have done any worse over those 12 games, it quickly became clear that his style was no evolution of Bielsa’s and that Marsch was very much out of his depth.





I’m not going to argue with the decision to sack Marsch. He was in my opinion completely out of his depth in the Premier League, just as he was in the Bundesliga. Had it not been for lucky results he would have been out of a job before the World Cup, but he always did just enough to keep his job despite Leeds being in an ever-precarious position. Many will disagree with my view, but that’s football, a sport of opinions. For all the joy that the Chelsea result gave me, performances across the season were not good and Marsch’s management speak press conferences failed to address the reality of our situation or prove that he had answers to the problems we could all see.

What I can’t forgive is making the decision without a replacement lined-up. Whilst Radrizzani was optimistically announcing an appointment would be made by the weekend on Twitter, it was clear things were not going to plan as prospective candidate after candidate pulled out of the running leaving a Futsal coach in charge. Michael Skubala may have got two decent performance out of the team against Manchester United, and he seems like a decent guy, but he does not have the experience for a Premier League relegation scrap. Especially up against the wily old heads of Dyche and Moyes.

By this time next week Leeds United could be bottom of the Premier League with relegation a very real possibility. No Premier League status, no European football, no expanded stadium. With their legacy burning around them, the board need to act fast and decisively. Their managerial appointments so far, Bielsa aside, have been poor. The next one needs to be a good one, even if only for the short term and they need to make it soon else witness everything Bielsa built for them disappear in smoke.
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Re: Never mind white smoke rising, black smoke is billowing across Beeston

Post by Mountain »

Good article, well written.

It's getting increasingly harder to escape the conclusion that appointing Bielsa was the only good move this board made.

We are in the perfect storm, no manager, results in freefall, morale gone. It needs a move almost as good as appointing Bielsa to stop this collapse.
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Re: Never mind white smoke rising, black smoke is billowing across Beeston

Post by The Subhuman »

How do we know a replacement wasn't lined up? ... There's a fair chance we sounded out Corberan and it seems likely that he was white smoke man until WBA upped the ante while we were not prepared to go all in again with another long term contract for a manager who could, had we offered the 3 yr contract, which most here would have railed against, he'd probably be ours

Now whether Corberan was the right man for the job is another question, and irrespective of my point here... I don't think Radz posts the white smoke coment having had zero contact or even negative contact with Corberan. Carlos must have indicated a willingness to come coach us for Rads to have said what he did..

Premeature ejaculation it was but it must have had some substance imo....

If we stay up we get one of our preferred targets in the summer, but that interim 5 months is going to be treacherous to navigate.. We're unlikely to find a good short term manager so we either offer an 18 month plus contract to someone we'll let go after 6 (Benitez etc) or gamble on one of those desperate enough to risk a short term trial by fire (Gerrard etc)

The other option is to massively over pay in the hope we buy our way out of trouble ... money talks
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Re: Never mind white smoke rising, black smoke is billowing across Beeston

Post by YorkshireSquare »

faaip wrote: Sat Feb 18, 2023 9:29 pm How do we know a replacement wasn't lined up?

Perhaps I should have said 'secured' rather than lined up.

It's an odd time to make the move, most managers (that you would want) are secure in roles having been through the January window, most with secure objectives for the remainder of the season. The time to do it was before the World Cup. Pulling the trigger when they did, they really needed to have the relacement secured, just as they did last season.
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Re: Never mind white smoke rising, black smoke is billowing across Beeston

Post by Lufcheidi »

Very well written. Sadly we have thrown away everything that we were building with Bielsa for what? Any hope I had under him have long been destroyed and now the only place we are heading is relegation.
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Re: Never mind white smoke rising, black smoke is billowing across Beeston

Post by Griff59 »

We're not getting out of this one. Should've gone down last season. Unbelievable naivete from Radrizzani. The American connection is toxic.
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Re: Never mind white smoke rising, black smoke is billowing across Beeston

Post by Griff59 »

The whole thing reminds me of the shambles around trying to snaffle Martin O'Neill from Celtic a couple of decades back. Shameful and so unnecessary. Because we're Leeds and shoulda won a European Cup back in 75, any manager from anywhere should abandon his club and contract and take on our relegation struggle. Who the f**k do we think we are?! We have a history that is repeating itself. While Radrizzani has been better than Cellino and Bates (who wouldn't be), his era will not go down in our history as a remarkable one. And Orta should now do what he shoulda oughta long ago.
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Re: Never mind white smoke rising, black smoke is billowing across Beeston

Post by Laval »

Get Bielsa back. He only can help us stay up
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Re: Never mind white smoke rising, black smoke is billowing across Beeston

Post by CB 696242 »

In all my years of supporting Leeds . I have never been so angry . Jessy was way out of his depth. Why he was appointed I don’t know.
Orta is a disgrace.
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Re: Never mind white smoke rising, black smoke is billowing across Beeston

Post by El Kapitan »

I'm sorry.... but how can you possibly say that Bielsa was successful in the premier league? Are we that far gone that we compare Bielsa getting promoted to our history of "competing" in the prem (with the exorbitant budget he had compared to Thomas Frank, Steve Bruce, Warnock and the other managers who have done exactly the same thing or better i.e. not getting destroyed week in week out in his second season as he failed to find solutions to tactical issues such as man marking).....

Sure he got us promoted..... fantastic. As would most decent coaches with a stable ownership and backing which we didnt enjoy before Radz.

But his bullshit signings and ethos of developing and relying on starting 11 shite such a Harrison, Bamford, Tyler fecking Roberts, Forshaw...... bringing in Dan James and playing him as a no9.... 🤣 meant that without his world class coaching they were not able to compete at all..... Marsch was a shocking appointment..... agreed, but that new manager bounce where players try to impress the new guy saved us. I also think if we're being objective that if we had a half way decent striker who doesnt need 7 expected goals to score 1 Marsch would still be in a job and we would be 6-9 points clear. The fact that we have a shite squad is that we havent chose to improve it significantly for 2 out of three years after promotion.

As it is Orta has spunked a load of cash on "ones for the future" (35 million on Rutter who looks about as effective right now as Tyler Roberts) or players who havent done anything to suggest they'll do anything of merit in the prem..... Aaronsson, Kristensen etc

Orta is the problem.... always has been. Bielsa was a good quality short term appointment (as he has always been throughout his career) but we followed it up with s**t appointments and s**t transfers. The result is what we have today.....

In the end Bielsa wasnt able to get a tune out of these players..... theyre not up to standard to play attacking, expansive football in this division. Until we get it through our heads that we need to build, progress from Dyche type survival football to top 10 attacking football we'll get nowhere.

We need someone in now, we need to beat southampton. Anything less we are relegated.
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Re: Never mind white smoke rising, black smoke is billowing across Beeston

Post by Honest View »

Marsch should have been booted out since the beginning of the season. He is of the same level of Hockaday. The contineous making of bad decisions of the board will surely drive us to the Championship and lower leagues. We must be prepared to meet the likes of Yeovil, Milwall, etc. in the near future. Thanks to Radrizzani and friends.
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Re: Never mind white smoke rising, black smoke is billowing across Beeston

Post by mentalcase »

I imagine an emergency board meeting will be taking place today, probably over skype or even twitter, orta will be telling everyone else where 'they have gone wrong' and get off scot free.
I thought there was a huge fire consisting of rubber tractor tyres with the amount of 'black smoke billowing across beeston' dark times indeed.
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Re: Never mind white smoke rising, black smoke is billowing across Beeston

Post by BradWhite »

Laval wrote: Sat Feb 18, 2023 11:52 pm Get Bielsa back. He only can help us stay up
Bielsa would never return to Leeds under this ownership.
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Re: Never mind white smoke rising, black smoke is billowing across Beeston

Post by JoeDenver »

El Kapitan wrote: Sun Feb 19, 2023 12:38 am I'm sorry.... but how can you possibly say that Bielsa was successful in the premier league? Are we that far gone that we compare Bielsa getting promoted to our history of "competing" in the prem (with the exorbitant budget he had compared to Thomas Frank, Steve Bruce, Warnock and the other managers who have done exactly the same thing or better i.e. not getting destroyed week in week out in his second season as he failed to find solutions to tactical issues such as man marking).....

Sure he got us promoted..... fantastic. As would most decent coaches with a stable ownership and backing which we didnt enjoy before Radz.

But his bullshit signings and ethos of developing and relying on starting 11 shite such a Harrison, Bamford, Tyler fecking Roberts, Forshaw...... bringing in Dan James and playing him as a no9.... 🤣 meant that without his world class coaching they were not able to compete at all..... Marsch was a shocking appointment..... agreed, but that new manager bounce where players try to impress the new guy saved us. I also think if we're being objective that if we had a half way decent striker who doesnt need 7 expected goals to score 1 Marsch would still be in a job and we would be 6-9 points clear. The fact that we have a shite squad is that we havent chose to improve it significantly for 2 out of three years after promotion.

As it is Orta has spunked a load of cash on "ones for the future" (35 million on Rutter who looks about as effective right now as Tyler Roberts) or players who havent done anything to suggest they'll do anything of merit in the prem..... Aaronsson, Kristensen etc

Orta is the problem.... always has been. Bielsa was a good quality short term appointment (as he has always been throughout his career) but we followed it up with s**t appointments and s**t transfers. The result is what we have today.....

In the end Bielsa wasnt able to get a tune out of these players..... theyre not up to standard to play attacking, expansive football in this division. Until we get it through our heads that we need to build, progress from Dyche type survival football to top 10 attacking football we'll get nowhere.

We need someone in now, we need to beat southampton. Anything less we are relegated.
Well said Kapitan. Bielsa was never going to take us to the next level and fans need to see that. There needed to be an evolution to survive and the Red Bull school was a natural thought, but Ragnick’s failures at scUM and Hassenhuttl’s failure at Southampton should’ve been massive hints that those tactics were being figured out and we needed to go elsewhere for evolution. The lack of foresight in choosing a successor was what has led us to this point.

I’m wondering if we could get Iraola at the end of the season, would you be fine with Skubes to see it out (relegation being a far gone conclusion)? Or is get Benitez (or Favre) and pray to stay up the way to go? Genuinely curious what others think is the best course. I imagine this is what is going through the 49ers minds at the moment.

And ORTA OUT!
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Re: Never mind white smoke rising, black smoke is billowing across Beeston

Post by JoeDenver »

JoeDenver wrote: Sun Feb 19, 2023 4:08 pm Well said Kapitan. Bielsa was never going to take us to the next level and fans need to see that. There needed to be an evolution to survive and the Red Bull school was a natural thought, but Ragnick’s failures at scUM and Hassenhuttl’s failure at Southampton should’ve been massive hints that those tactics were being figured out and we needed to go elsewhere for evolution. The lack of foresight in choosing a successor was what has led us to this point.

I’m wondering if we could get Iraola at the end of the season, would you be fine with Skubes to see it out (relegation being a far gone conclusion)? Or is getting Benitez (or Favre) and pray to stay up the way to go? Genuinely curious what others think is the best course. I imagine this is what is going through the 49ers minds at the moment.

And ORTA OUT!
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Re: Never mind white smoke rising, black smoke is billowing across Beeston

Post by Jimstorrie »

Who is buying the players, or rather what, if any, input does the coach have?
This for me started in the transfer window before the second season. The four money purchases were Klasson ( still for the future), finally confirming Harrison's move, Firpo and James.
Not really kicking on from ninth.
In the subsequent January window, nobody was bought.
I have never been satisfactorily convinced who was most instrumental in that lack of numbers or indeed successful moves.
Two windows down the line, money is forthcoming, but within a couple of games the coach is gone without having the chance to use the new players.
That probably answers my question of course, and faith in Orta is extremely over-optimistic.
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Re: Never mind white smoke rising, black smoke is billowing across Beeston

Post by YorkshireSquare »

JoeDenver wrote: Sun Feb 19, 2023 4:08 pm Well said Kapitan. Bielsa was never going to take us to the next level and fans need to see that. There needed to be an evolution to survive and the Red Bull school was a natural thought, but Ragnick’s failures at scUM and Hassenhuttl’s failure at Southampton should’ve been massive hints that those tactics were being figured out and we needed to go elsewhere for evolution. The lack of foresight in choosing a successor was what has led us to this point.

The names mentioned last week, Iraola and Gallardo amongst them seem like much more natural succesors to Bielsa than Marsch ever was.
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Re: Never mind white smoke rising, black smoke is billowing across Beeston

Post by JoeDenver »

YorkshireSquare wrote: Sun Feb 19, 2023 8:16 pm The names mentioned last week, Iraola and Gallardo amongst them seem like much more natural succesors to Bielsa than Marsch ever was.
I don’t disagree. It’s just the prevailing wisdom at this time last year was still advocating that train of thought. God, to give us Gallardo’s style against that Everton side on Saturday…would’ve been a dream.
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