Qatar World Cup 2022. Argentina v France

[White Riot]

Learned his antics at Villa Park.

Yeah JT special, fookin trash and a half mate.

Just the same as that Cockney twat Lampard.

Topped it off with talking s**t about Mbappe.

Still narks me that we let Villa score.

[Mountain]

You seem contemptuous of my views, hence your evasive and immature response.

You're getting personal and angry. My response was not in the least bit evasive and immature. I responded to your post which started with...

Here's a post that all you lot who hate me can get your teeth into. Reach for that 'Report' button and get me banned! Go on, you know you want to.

And I responded to say that I didn't want you banned because I found your efforts to be edgy on an anonymous forum hilarious.

If you wanted a different response, perhaps don't start posts with provocative nonsense like "ban me, go on, you hate me, ban me, you know you want to".

And don't question the maturity of others when you open with an effort like that.

[John in Louisiana]

He is not English. Living in England does not make you English.

If I was born in Russia and lived my entire life there, but without Russian ancestry, would I be Russkii? I would not.

So by your way of "thinking," the Prime Minister isn't English.

Something ought to be done about that.

[mentalcase]

Yeah JT special, fookin trash and a half mate.

Just the same as that Cockney twat Lampard.

Topped it off with talking s**t about Mbappe.

Still narks me that we let Villa score.

Me also

[Sockerist]

You're getting personal and angry. My response was not in the least bit evasive and immature. I responded to your post which started with...

Here's a post that all you lot who hate me can get your teeth into. Reach for that 'Report' button and get me banned! Go on, you know you want to.

And I responded to say that I didn't want you banned because I found your efforts to be edgy on an anonymous forum hilarious.

If you wanted a different response, perhaps don't start posts with provocative nonsense like "ban me, go on, you hate me, ban me, you know you want to".

And don't question the maturity of others when you open with an effort like that.

My post wasn't angry. That's projection on your part. My response to you was very calm. You have now responded to me twice but have yet to put forward anything that I would recognise as an argument. Your posts are personal, immature and evasive and seem to be intended just to push my buttons and waste time.

So by your way of "thinking," the Prime Minister isn't English.

Something ought to be done about that.

He isn't British, and yes, in my view he should be disqualified from the position on that basis; but my post was about football and the link between ethnicity and national teams, not politics.

[Mountain]

My post wasn't angry...
...Your posts are personal, immature and evasive and seem to be intended just to push my buttons and waste time.

Here's a post that all you lot who hate me can get your teeth into. Reach for that 'Report' button and get me banned! Go on, you know you want to.

Look, we'll agree on one thing, as you suggest I am contemptuous of your racism. And the way you frame posts, full of excitable silly stuff, calling to be banned, calling posters mentally ill because they like Pele, a black player etc.

[Sockerist]

Look, we'll agree on one thing, as you suggest I am contemptuous of your racism. And the way you frame posts, full of excitable silly stuff, calling to be banned, calling posters mentally ill because they like Pele, a black player etc.

I have done no such thing.

I am still waiting for the argument, if any, that you wish to make. You have now replied to me several times - which is your choice, as my original post was not aimed at you personally - but you have yet to actually say anything of substance or relevance. I'm struggling to see the point of your posts or what you hope to achieve, beyond advertising your petulance and immaturity.

You say I am racist or I am making racist posts. I don't mind this either, though I think it is a matter of opinion. Racism, to my mind, is a belief that people generally can be inferior or superior on account of race. That doesn't seem, to me, to be the worst thing in the world to believe, and there are people who reject it who have still done terrible things. Simply believing something doesn't make you a bad person, and more importantly, simply believing in something that seems 'nice' doesn't necessarily make you a good person. However, it so happens that it is not my belief. I don't believe that white people are superior to people who are not white, or in any sense vice versa, though that is a qualified view because I think racial and ethnic preferences are natural (and inevitable) and seem to be the normal state of affairs in much of the rest of the world outside Europe, and while exercising such preferences does not necessarily imply that a person is racist, I suppose it must result in outcomes that are or seem 'racist'.

You are implying it is racist to question the reputation of Pelé, as he had dark skin. This is a strange thought to have, but anyway, you forget that I also said that Pelé was a terrific footballer and I made clear that I was not questioning his abilities.

[Mountain]

I have done no such thing.

I am still waiting for the argument, if any, that you wish to make. You have now replied to me several times - which is your choice, as my original post was not aimed at you personally - but you have yet to actually say anything of substance or relevance. I'm struggling to see the point of your posts or what you hope to achieve, beyond advertising your petulance and immaturity.

Do you really think long winded post after long winded post explaining your racism should not be answered, have substance and relevance, and are very mature?

[Sockerist]

Do you really think long winded post after long winded post explaining your racism should not be answered, have substance and relevance, and are very mature?

It's your opinion that my posts are lacking in substance or maturity. I'm happy for anybody looking in on this thread to make their own mind up about who here is lacking in maturity and substance. It seems to me that if you are distressed or disturbed in some way by my posts, then the best cure for that is a glass of water and a lie down, and if the affliction continues, you should seek medical attention. As for this thread, you have yet to make any point that I can actually reply to, so I am left guessing as to what your view may be. I assume it will be something politically-correct.

If your view is that the race and ethnicity of a player doesn't matter for the purposes of qualification for national teams, you are in effect telling us that ethnicity is a social fiction and we should do away with national teams and replace the World Cup and the European Championship with inter-league tournaments, with the Premier League All-Stars competing against the Bundesliga Best XI, and so on. Like it or not, that is the logical conclusion of your views.

Now, you are perfectly entitled to hold this opinion and jolly good luck to you, but it is just an opinion. I recognise that your opinion (or what I assume to be your opinion) is also broadly the view of the people in charge, both of FIFA and the relevant football authorities in Western countries. It also seems that the core principle - that ethnicity does not exist - is the basis of a prevailing view among influential people in society at large and is applied to areas of policy that have nothing to do with football. This makes it orthodoxy. However, it is important to remember that just because something is the orthodox view, that does not make it right. Orthodoxy is often wrong and the people in charge of things can be wrong - and often are. This is especially so when, as here, the orthodox view has to be enforced with threats and bullying: including threats of bans and social shaming, loss of employment, criminal prosecution and imprisonment, and so on.

My own view is that ethnicity is a relevant consideration when determining whether an individual qualifies for a representational squad. I have no objection to some flexibility being applied and the odd 'exceptional case' where a player is black but manifestly his strong allegiance is for England. Exceptions can be condoned.

As I have already said, one of my favourite-ever England players was Paul Ince (even though he played for the team on the other side of the Pennines), but he was an exception. Now England field several non-English players as a matter of course in most matches. I cannot support such an 'England' team as it is not a true England team and I cannot join in the charade and pretence that it is England when it is not. If an 'England' team with four or five black players in it win the World Cup, I could not accept that England had won the World Cup.

I do not accept that this is 'racist'. I am not questioning the ability of players on the grounds of race, only their qualification to play for England. As I have already explained, being born and raised in a particular country does not make you part of that country in the ethnic sense. Being born and raised in Russia does not make you Russkii unless you have Russian ancestry, or failing that, perhaps Eastern Slavic ancestry coupled with a willingness to assimilate as a Russian. Having British ancestry in such circumstances would make you British, and as a general rule, unable to assimilate as a Russian - though a close examination of particular circumstances may result in exceptions. There are nuances to it and, as I have said, some flexibility is permissible, and there are shades of grey. Alexandr Pushkin, perhaps the greatest ever Russian writer, had some Moor ancestry. Applying hard and fast rules is difficult, I accept, but the core point is easy enough to grasp, and it is not 'racist'.

You are free to call me 'racist' though, if it makes you feel better about yourself.

[Mountain]

You are free to call me 'racist' though, if it makes you feel better about yourself.

I and others call you racist because you clearly are. But next time by all means give me 20 paragraphs to explain why you wrongly think you are not. "If that makes you feel better about yourself"

[Sockerist]

I and others call you racist because you clearly are. But next time by all means give me 20 paragraphs to explain why you wrongly think you are not. "If that makes you feel better about yourself"

You are clearly having difficult reading and understanding my posts. I am sorry that you have this problem. May I suggest you seek the appropriate help? I understand that local adult education services usually do offer functional skills courses and you may benefit from this. However, I don't mind that you call me racist, it's just that it's getting a bit tiresome. What exactly is your point? Calling somebody racist is not a point or argument. We're not little kids.

If you do decide to reply to me again, can I ask that you do at least make an attempt to argue some point, or I may have to speak with the forum moderator. As I said on the other thread, it's not that this upsets me, but this is not what the forum is for (or at least, I assume it's not). You have an issue with me. Fine, but there's a point when you need to draw a line. Thanks.

[Mountain]

I may have to speak with the forum moderator.

As you have threatened this in 2 different threads, I should say...please do speak to the moderator.

Bear in mind that the moderator may also look at your posts. And may decide that...

It simply makes no sense to have black footballers representing England. They're not English.

...is patently racist. The moderator may also consider that posts like

Here's a post that all you lot who hate me can get your teeth into. Reach for that 'Report' button and get me banned! Go on, you know you want to.

You've...gone into an emotional strop about it. Have I made you cry?

I wonder if there were times when Pelé himself was...embarrassed by all the superlatives being lavished on him by (mostly) rather silly people, some of whom come across as almost mentally-ill...

The two of you are having emotional breakdowns...

this is starting to come across as a bit obsessive and puerile and it's clogging up the system...

You are clearly having difficult reading and understanding my posts. I am sorry that you have this problem. May I suggest you seek the appropriate help? I understand that local adult education services usually do offer functional skills courses and you may benefit from this.

...are personal and abusive and/or amount to trolling.

I'm perfectly entitled to object to the content and tone of your posts. If you really believe there is a rule that you should be able to post racism and abuse and I cannot respond, I'm sure the moderator will clarify that you are simply wrong.

[Sockerist]

As you have threatened this in 2 different threads, I should say...please do speak to the moderator.

Bear in mind that the moderator may also look at your posts. And may decide that...



...is patently racist. The moderator may also consider that posts like













...are personal and abusive and/or amount to trolling.

I'm perfectly entitled to object to the content and tone of your posts. If you really believe there is a rule that you should be able to post racism and abuse and I cannot respond, I'm sure the moderator will clarify that you are simply wrong.

You are perfectly entitled to call me racist and object to my posts, but you are ignoring what I am saying to you, which is that you have already made your objection plain and unless you actually have a point to make that addresses my original post (something you have not yet done), then it's difficult to see what further need there is for posts from you on the topic. You think I'm racist. Fine. You're allowed to say it. I don't believe I am, but I accept that you can say it. Beyond that, you don't seem to have anything to say about what I actually said in the first place and none of your posts suggest you even understand what I said.

To me, that suggests that at some point I do need to involve the moderator. Bear in mind my original post was not aimed at you and I never asked you to reply to me. That was your choice entirely and you keep posting without making a point, and it is now starting to look obsessive.

It may be that others have expressed support for your views, but that doesn't mean everybody else agrees with you, and even if they do, it doesn't mean you should be posting in this way. Even if I am just a minority of one, this is an open discussion forum and sometimes a minority of one may have something valid to say.

Of course, the moderator may take his/her own view on what should and shouldn't be allowed. I will accept what the moderator decides. I'm certainly not suggesting any formal action should be taken against you. I only ask that you either make a point or leave it.