Sunderland v Leeds Utd Match Thread

[Cjay]

No problem Cjay, we’ll leave it there- you clearly see Farke to blame for the points dropped where I think the players had an off night.

All opinions.

Fair enough Dave

I don't rate Farke I've never pretended I do so maybe I'm more willing to have a go at him tactically then some.

Maybe I'm wrong maybe not.

[mentalcase]

It was clear 1st half they had worked out a way of nullifying our attacking players (think Rutter and Piroe were in single figures for touches)

But my point is at no point until late 2nd half did we even try any sort of different approach, it was the same 100 passes between the back 3 whilst allowing Sunderland time to pick up the man and play in front of them.

So surely you try an alternative? Why not go a bit more direct and then press for second balls for example?

I feel your frustration cjay, I really do, we were saying similar at halftime, we needed a tactical change they'd worked us out good and proper and once again we had no answer to it, that is down to the manager, why he keeps Piroe and Rutter in those positions is beyond all us who watched it tonight.
So many players had an off night again, it happens, but against another piss poor side, can't break down park the bus teams, what do we practice in training, it isn't set pieces, it isn't corners, it isn't shooting from midfield, it isn't catching the ball from the goalie, it isn't having a plan B to break down teams, what do we practice exactly, having a load of possession for stats sake !!!
Very very frustrating.

[Kennyb41]

It's his job to find solutions though not mine or yours.

When it was obvious Southampton had completely worked us out he didn't even make a sub till the 73rd minute (like for like).

It was the 70th minute vs Stoke where we struggled.

It was the 75th minute tonight but again like for like waiting till we were behind when he just threw everyone on.

He could have changed formation, he could have gone more direct and fight for second balls by squeezing up, he could have even just changed positions, moved James left and Summerville Central pushed Rutter right etc.

He could have just tried something else.

Having absolutely no clue how to adapt when it's obvious your tactics aren't working and your special players have been nullified isn't a very good habit

The game was on a knife edge in terrible conditions, we are not overloaded with quality on the bench, you're asking cold players to try and fit straight into a game where Sunderland are having more control of it at home.

[whiteswan]

Credit to Sunderland, another rookie manager sussed us out.

The Mackems did a job on us & earned a deserved victory.

He did, they did, but we will beat them at ER I'm sure of that Leon. A long way to go yet.

[JoeDenver]

I wonder If DF expected Sunderland to press us like they did Leicester and hope to catch them on the break?

I'm concerned by his lack of tactical awareness most of all

You can have an off day on the pitch but he seemed totally bamboozled by a total managerial novice.

Spot on. This actually had an aura of Marsch’s final game in charge for us (Nottingham Forest) in that we looked completely lost and devoid of any ideas on how to break the opposition down. Farke wasn’t despondent, though (he’s comfy in his spot right now), but he definitely got this one tactically all wrong. Thought Connor’s take echoed much of this, as well:

https://www.youtube.com/live/BFXJWpOeGd ... og3Q_O7-Ci

[White Riot]

Absolutely we need to address certain areas in janaury no s**t like you say a LB and for me we are still lacking that Creative midfielder a said or an hernandez ffs

Definitely Scooby

If we get a good left back in then we're solid on that side, Spence goes to right back and Jack Clarke doesn't get to have the fun he had with Archie.

Archie goes into midfield and we have some creativity and flair there, he's 100% wasted at right back. We could drop Ampadu,or Kamara to the bench, as both need a rest, and have done for a while.

Yeah, number 10 would be nice too, and I still feel we need another CB, cos if Rodon goes down with injury that defence will be very shaky.

Strange how Farke didn't swap Spence to right back? Archie was on a yellow and Clarke was on fire. Big risk of a red for Archie, plus James and Ampadu were having to track back and help Archie which left us light in midfield.

They didn't get much change out of Spence all night, so it shows what a difference having quality defenders like him and Rodon makes.

[White Riot]

Got to hand it to the opposition sometimes Riot.
Bit like us v Leicester. But that was a big letdown with Ipswich and inevitably Leicester winning.

Yeah, they had us sussed out and just sat back all night. We again had loads of possession but this time did nothing with it.

Proper titty goal they got though.

I'm not worried about Leicester, or Ipswich, they will sort themselves out. Leicester won't carry that jam all season. Ipswich are away to us and Leicester, and home to Leicester too, over the next five weeks. They will get nowt from them.

With some necessary recruits in January, left back and centre back minimum, and hopefully a play maker, we will win this. Leicester second, then Ipswich, Sunderland, WBA and maybe Boro in the playoffs.

Have faith mate

Still 25 matches left to go.

Losing Byram now with lots of matches coming up, is a big blow and again shows we should have recruited a left back.

We've been shouting that for years, but no f**kers listening. Our EPL experience showed that you don't get away with half-assing things

That Pritchard was given way too much time and space last night, same as Clarke, but Ampadu and Kamara are tired, and Archie is out of position.

[1964white]

I feel your frustration cjay, I really do, we were saying similar at halftime, we needed a tactical change they'd worked us out good and proper and once again we had no answer to it, that is down to the manager, why he keeps Piroe and Rutter in those positions is beyond all us who watched it tonight.
So many players had an off night again, it happens, but against another piss poor side, can't break down park the bus teams, what do we practice in training, it isn't set pieces, it isn't corners, it isn't shooting from midfield, it isn't catching the ball from the goalie, it isn't having a plan B to break down teams, what do we practice exactly, having a load of possession for stats sake !!!
Very very frustrating.

My god, that was very frustrating, nothing exciting from a Leeds perspective, the game left me feeling numb!

[DDB220]

Definitely Scooby

If we get a good left back in then we're solid on that side, Spence goes to right back and Jack Clarke doesn't get to have the fun he had with Archie.

Archie goes into midfield and we have some creativity and flair there, he's 100% wasted at right back. We could drop Ampadu,or Kamara to the bench, as both need a rest, and have done for a while.

Yeah, number 10 would be nice too, and I still feel we need another CB, cos if Rodon goes down with injury that defence will be very shaky.

Strange how Farke didn't swap Spence to right back? Archie was on a yellow and Clarke was on fire. Big risk of a red for Archie, plus James and Ampadu were having to track back and help Archie which left us light in midfield.

They didn't get much change out of Spence all night, so it shows what a difference having quality defenders like him and Rodon makes.

There was absolutely no need to swap Archie with Spence. Clarke realistically got the better of him about twice. The foul was necessary as Clarke may have got clear on that occasion. These occurrences happen in games. The reality for me was that there was a tactical plan to prevent Archie getting isolated on a 1v1 with Clarke (Clarke stats in this league this season are not by chance) James was to double up on Clarke. (Some moaned in chat during the game how James had to help out Gray ?) Sunderland did exactly the same against Summerville as did Blackburn last week - players of this quality can hurt any team if given time and space to run at a defender (regardless of who the defender is) so what teams do is to set up tactically to prevent those situations occurring. It is called a low block.


We don’t play a low block so players have to track back to help the defence when the opposition counter - that is the reality. Sunderland like Blackburn played well in those transitional moments and caused us problems.

[Chilli D]

Both keepers made one save of any note?, don't recall Mes making anymore saves. They got a slightly fortuitous goal, our fortuitous attempt didn't go in...

0-0 draw was probably the fair result

Maybe more to deal with would have been a better phrase

[Madron]

Yeah, they had us sussed out and just sat back all night. We again had loads of possession but this time did nothing with it.

Proper titty goal they got though.

I'm not worried about Leicester, or Ipswich, they will sort themselves out. Leicester won't carry that jam all season. Ipswich are away to us and Leicester, and home to Leicester too, over the next five weeks. They will get nowt from them.

With some necessary recruits in January, left back and centre back minimum, and hopefully a play maker, we will win this. Leicester second, then Ipswich, Sunderland, WBA and maybe Boro in the playoffs.

Have faith mate

Still 25 matches left to go.

Losing Byram now with lots of matches coming up, is a big blow and again shows we should have recruited a left back.

We've been shouting that for years, but no f**kers listening. Our EPL experience showed that you don't get away with half-assing things

That Pritchard was given way too much time and space last night, same as Clarke, but Ampadu and Kamara are tired, and Archie is out of position.

Those games will define the season, If Us and Leicester beat Ipswich, the gap could be down to 4 pts and GAME ON.
We lose to Ipswich and a 13 pts gap will probably mean play offs.
Us v Ipswich is a nappy-wearer.

[lufc1304]

Collective bad evening for players and manager alike, against a well organised side who just seemed more up for it than we were. As others have alluded to, maybe the sickness bug had an impact as we were very flat from the off and only Summerville of our front four looked like doing anything. Poor game, poor result but we move on. 6W, 1D and 1L in our last 8 games is still a more than decent return, no need for panic or hair shirts.

[1964white]

The game was so predictable, reminiscence of the Stoke match.

Not much creativity or innovation from our players.

Couldn't see us scoring, though I always thought Sunderland would grab a scrappy goal, as our defence appeared shaky at times, true to form of the Rotherham, Stoke & Birmingham games, they didn't have to create anything special to score, just lie in waiting ready to capitalise on an error. Teams don't need to do much to score a winning goal against us in tight matches.

[Orange Box]

I’ve had a night’s sleep to ponder this, but I think Spence at LB isn’t a great fit for the team.

In the second half I commented on here that Kamara seemed to be playing LB. I watched closely and no, he wasn’t, he was covering for Spence who was often playing LW, far more forward than Jimmy. This meant when Jimmy tried to run into his wing space it was already occupied by Spence, and their RB. This forced Jimmy to cut inside, almost every time, which is where their defence was strongest.

Result? Well apart from 1-0, obviously, our potent left side attack was as useless as our left side defence when Firpo plays.

I’m not saying Spence isn’t a good player, I just don’t think he works well with Jimmy. Maybe with James on the right side? Who knows?

I’m joining the move Archie back into midfield brigade.

[Kennyb41]

£25m Dan James
£35mil Georgi Rutter.
£16mil Joel Piroe
£30m rejected Wilfred Gnonto.
£15m cb Joe Rodon
£20m Djed Spence.
£7m Ethan Ampadu.

All those players walk into every team in this league apart from some with Leicester.

Jeez, talk about over exaggeration to suit your narrative

DJ - Is a £5m Championship prospect, I don't care what the clown paid for him, that's what he is.
Rutter - The Clown overpaid for a potential, whom we've no idea if he can cut it in the Prem, he's doing well in the Championship.
JP - £16m for a proven Championship striker with potential is probably ok.
WG - Wtf has a £30m rejection got to do with owt, we paid £4m.
JR - £15m ? Spur paid £10m for someone that was ok in the Championship, he can't get in their Prem team and was rejected elsewhere.
Spence - Where've you plucked this figure from ? It was also his first start out of position ?
EA - £7m - What are you expecting ?

Anyways - Sunderland didn't exactly play us off the park, the only team to play us off the park this season were Soton for 45mins, we actually played the league leaders off the park, and were better than the 0-1 scoreline that day.

Conditions last night were terrible for our play, yes it's the same for both teams - But they were definitely better than us in them, they gave us no time at all and to me those conditions did more favours for them than us, and our preferred style of play.

I think our performance looked jaded and i don't know the reasons for that, one thing i do feel, is that DF is getting it wrong away from home.

When his ploy of trying to bring teams out to play fails and they just get themselves organised, it's fcking us up, and badly.
Now that is a worry, because for ANY fecking team to do that is not hard, and when we do finally get forward the away defenders are not only organised, but they have also put 5 along the back line, if not 6, and we brickwall it.

My main concern is why he's persisting with it away after Stoke Rotherham and now Sunderland, and it's probably why Soton blitzed us 3-0 first half

We need to stfu about keeping your adored clean sheets, and play to OUR strengths on the understanding that we're gonna concede.

I'd sooner win a fcking game 2-3 or 3-4, than gift a game 1-0 by playing into the oppo's hands.

Our strength lies in taking the game to the opponents, and not by politely asking them 'will you please come and play with us'

[Jaydog]

Those games will define the season, If Us and Leicester beat Ipswich, the gap could be down to 4 pts and GAME ON.
We lose to Ipswich and a 13 pts gap will probably mean play offs.
Us v Ipswich is a nappy-wearer.

Nappy wearing.
Dogging.
Whatever gets you through the game I suppose.

[1964white]

Once again, apart from Gnonto, our subs made no impact, whatsoever!

[Kennyb41]

Another thing i've been thinking of and it just shouldn't take this to do it but, If we'd gone 1-0 down last night after a few minutes, we'd then start playing how i want us to play from the off.

So perhaps i should just bell him - " Pssst, just pretend we're a goal down, what would your instructions be to them DF huh ?"

[Cjay]

I feel your frustration cjay, I really do, we were saying similar at halftime, we needed a tactical change they'd worked us out good and proper and once again we had no answer to it, that is down to the manager, why he keeps Piroe and Rutter in those positions is beyond all us who watched it tonight.
So many players had an off night again, it happens, but against another piss poor side, can't break down park the bus teams, what do we practice in training, it isn't set pieces, it isn't corners, it isn't shooting from midfield, it isn't catching the ball from the goalie, it isn't having a plan B to break down teams, what do we practice exactly, having a load of possession for stats sake !!!
Very very frustrating.

Exactly MC.

He is just so slow to react and some of his tactics are when you think about directly contributing to our issues.

So for example he has Kamara covering the full back area or pressing high, this leaves Ampadu by himself in midfield (how often have we said on here that our midfield is open).

People get frustrated by the slow build up and even little things like on the rare occasions Meslier claims a set piece and he does a fake quick throw but holds on to the ball before waiting 30 seconds and rolling it to Struijk or Rodon and we repeat the 450 passes. Those again are his tactics which is so strange given I think we'd all agree we are at our best on quick transition?

It also makes him complaining about the low block of Sunderland a bit odd given his tactics promote the ability for the opposition to do it by being so slow.

Very frustrating, I just think he's a nice guy, good man manager, but tactically the more you see of him the more you can see why his Premier League record is so so poor.

You take Buendia out of that Norwich team he gets nowhere near promotion imo, absolutely convinced.

[Ben Scooby lufc]

Sunderland were a strong physical side and our team couldn't deal with this and the referee wasn't giving anything away!!And that Clarke was a threat from the start. We were ruffed up like something we just was not used too. Rutter and Summerville got totally clobbered
We will need to learn from this in order to obtain an automatic promotion spot.