Not What Was Expected
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Not What Was Expected
When Sky started pushing the "Spygate scandal" as they saw it, they expected universal howling, anger, fury . . . . . . .
What did they get?
A few ex players who were hypocrites and knew it and have since on the whole started to backtrack.
A few journalists who were exactly the same and have also started to backtrack (hello Henry).
They were expecting fury, Henry Winter was straight on it on twitter telling everyone how wrong it was!!!!!!!!!
And who would ride to our defence? One of Skys golden boy pundits and ex Man U player Gary Neville, very quick to point out the hypocrisy of Henry was Gary.
But Gary works for Sky, Sky have told us its wrong and everyone was horrified, Keith Andrews was livid!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jermaine Jenas to, he was seething!!!!!!!
And then another Sky lad jumped to our defence, Jamie Carragher.
Lets get this straight, Jermaine Jenas and Keith Andrews are not top pundits, they are fairly new, fairly inexperienced, fairly id imagine nervous about there jobs.
Gary Nevile and Jamie Carragher are practically bullet proof, Sky need them as much as they need Sky, so they arent inclined to just spout what Sky tells them.
Another amusing aspect i thought was the bizarre situation where we had Stan Collymore preaching integrity and morals and Gazza as the voice of sanity.
Martin Keown saying how "embarrassed" he would be if Bielsa was his manager, Stuart Pearce demanding points deductions. Yes those two bastions of good behaviour on a football pitch, pull the other one lads, you two were dirty gits who would do anything to win and it wasnt always legal (unlike MB).
Think the issue here was Sky read it totally wrong, so they have pushed there view and a few sheep have followed, Sky expected mass hysteria because one of Englands golden boys had been "spied on" HOW AWFUL!!!!
What actually happened was a few misinformed ex players (generally lower level) got hysterical.
Everyone else, not fussed, there was article after article defending Bielsa, pointing out the hypocrisy of the situation since everyone knows its always gone on and far worse , there was ex player after ex player coming out and totally dismissing it online and on tele.
It was made a joke of in football, this isnt what Sky expected and it isnt what Lampard expected.
Fans up and down the country who have no reason to side with MB were pishing themselves laughing, Liverpool fans, Man U fans, Man City fans, even Chelsea fans.
They are asking Prem managers today and already Eddie Howe and Sean Dyche have dismissed it as a non event, there may be more ive missed.
There was no need for this to go so far, MB made a faux pas in terms of etiquette, like using the wrong fork at a restaurant, its not the end of the world, it happens, and doesnt really give you any advantage when you eat your food.
It shouldn't have gone so far, the media and Derby didnt need to sensationalise it, talk about binoculars and ladders and pliers and police on training pitches (none of that has been confirmed anywhere and the police entering the pitch has been specifically denied).
All thats happened is MBs legend has grown, Lampard has come across as a spoilt child, the hypocrisy of football has been exposed for the world to see and we found out we have a lot more friends then we thought.
Neville, Carra, Gazza, McManaman, Linekar and on and on, top pros, experienced managers who have come through the leagues like Dyche, Wilder, Howe all know its a non event.
Sky expected hysteria, what they have are managers laughing and shaking there heads in press conferences because they cant believe there even being asked.
It will be interesting to see if Sky ask Pep or Poch for there opinion? Will they dare?
But more then anyone there is one opinion we havent heard and probably wont, the man i would most like to hear from is Sir Alex Ferguson.
Since he has retired you can now appreciate him for what he was, a managerial great, a man who did whatever he had to to win, and i bet Sir Alex would find the whole situation hilarious.
What did they get?
A few ex players who were hypocrites and knew it and have since on the whole started to backtrack.
A few journalists who were exactly the same and have also started to backtrack (hello Henry).
They were expecting fury, Henry Winter was straight on it on twitter telling everyone how wrong it was!!!!!!!!!
And who would ride to our defence? One of Skys golden boy pundits and ex Man U player Gary Neville, very quick to point out the hypocrisy of Henry was Gary.
But Gary works for Sky, Sky have told us its wrong and everyone was horrified, Keith Andrews was livid!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jermaine Jenas to, he was seething!!!!!!!
And then another Sky lad jumped to our defence, Jamie Carragher.
Lets get this straight, Jermaine Jenas and Keith Andrews are not top pundits, they are fairly new, fairly inexperienced, fairly id imagine nervous about there jobs.
Gary Nevile and Jamie Carragher are practically bullet proof, Sky need them as much as they need Sky, so they arent inclined to just spout what Sky tells them.
Another amusing aspect i thought was the bizarre situation where we had Stan Collymore preaching integrity and morals and Gazza as the voice of sanity.
Martin Keown saying how "embarrassed" he would be if Bielsa was his manager, Stuart Pearce demanding points deductions. Yes those two bastions of good behaviour on a football pitch, pull the other one lads, you two were dirty gits who would do anything to win and it wasnt always legal (unlike MB).
Think the issue here was Sky read it totally wrong, so they have pushed there view and a few sheep have followed, Sky expected mass hysteria because one of Englands golden boys had been "spied on" HOW AWFUL!!!!
What actually happened was a few misinformed ex players (generally lower level) got hysterical.
Everyone else, not fussed, there was article after article defending Bielsa, pointing out the hypocrisy of the situation since everyone knows its always gone on and far worse , there was ex player after ex player coming out and totally dismissing it online and on tele.
It was made a joke of in football, this isnt what Sky expected and it isnt what Lampard expected.
Fans up and down the country who have no reason to side with MB were pishing themselves laughing, Liverpool fans, Man U fans, Man City fans, even Chelsea fans.
They are asking Prem managers today and already Eddie Howe and Sean Dyche have dismissed it as a non event, there may be more ive missed.
There was no need for this to go so far, MB made a faux pas in terms of etiquette, like using the wrong fork at a restaurant, its not the end of the world, it happens, and doesnt really give you any advantage when you eat your food.
It shouldn't have gone so far, the media and Derby didnt need to sensationalise it, talk about binoculars and ladders and pliers and police on training pitches (none of that has been confirmed anywhere and the police entering the pitch has been specifically denied).
All thats happened is MBs legend has grown, Lampard has come across as a spoilt child, the hypocrisy of football has been exposed for the world to see and we found out we have a lot more friends then we thought.
Neville, Carra, Gazza, McManaman, Linekar and on and on, top pros, experienced managers who have come through the leagues like Dyche, Wilder, Howe all know its a non event.
Sky expected hysteria, what they have are managers laughing and shaking there heads in press conferences because they cant believe there even being asked.
It will be interesting to see if Sky ask Pep or Poch for there opinion? Will they dare?
But more then anyone there is one opinion we havent heard and probably wont, the man i would most like to hear from is Sir Alex Ferguson.
Since he has retired you can now appreciate him for what he was, a managerial great, a man who did whatever he had to to win, and i bet Sir Alex would find the whole situation hilarious.
Last edited by Cjay on Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Signed
King Cjay
Fountain of all knowledge and wisdom
King Cjay
Fountain of all knowledge and wisdom
Re: Not What Was Expected
Well said
A bumble bee under the laws of physics shouldnt be able to fly, but it does because no one has told it that it can't
Re: Not What Was Expected
I still think the fact that we won was what started all the "outrage" in the first place. Derby had a ready made excuse. The fact is, spygate or not, they weren't beating us on that performance and nobody in the league would have either.
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Re: Not What Was Expected
Well said, Cjay, bang on the money. Think it's been said elsewhere, but what is apparent is that those who have played and managed at the highest level see this for what it is, a non-event. Those who are outraged were either s**t as players or managers (Shearer and Pearce fall into the latter category), or are hypocritical journalists who would sell their left bollock to know an England team before it was announced.
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Re: Not What Was Expected
Wasn't Poch one of the first ones to go on the record in defence of Bielsa?
Re: Not What Was Expected
Pep
First up, Guardiola was asked about the big story of the week after one of his managerial idols, Marcelo Bielsa, who coaches Leeds, admitted to spying on opponents. Does it affect Pep’s admiration for ‘El Loco’?
“My respect remains the same, absolutely the same,” Pep said of Bielsa. “I admired what he has done in the past, why should I change my opinion? I know him, I would not say perfectly, but a little bit. I understand Frank Lampard too, both sides are understandable.
“Barcelona was a bunker, it was impossible to see. The story is true. I saw the highlights, I didn’t see the whole press conference and no manager around the world works with the amount of information he produces for every single game and players. It is unique. What I learned from what he said is that football belongs to the players. The players make the difference.” GOOO ON PEP
Klopp
“What do you think was the reason for the curtains (around the pitch at Melwood)?” Klopp began.
“We use the curtain when we train the set-pieces and with the players who are available for the weekend.
“Minus 2 and minus one days (before a match) the curtains are in place as these are important sessions.
“I can understand Bielsa wants to have all the information but we have to accept we don’t get that.
“We have to respect the last 2 sessions before a game. Only a few people should see that – I think we all agree on that.
“He is an outstanding coach and role model for so many: when I came I didn’t see 51 games of Derby.
“I respect him a lot but that’s not how it should be. In the last couple of sessions only a few people should see. That’s how it should be.”
Sarri
Asked whether he has ever seen anything like the Bielsa story, Sarri said: “Yes. In Italy, yes. I don't know what to say. I prefer to study my opponents by video.
"I think it's very difficult to have a lot of information in the last two days (before a game). I don't like this. Of course, every coach tries to have information about the opponents. But I don't like the way. It doesn't happen a lot in Italy, but it does happen.”
Sarri then joked about why he has never been guilty of spying.
“I've never done it. Because I don't have very good spies.”
First up, Guardiola was asked about the big story of the week after one of his managerial idols, Marcelo Bielsa, who coaches Leeds, admitted to spying on opponents. Does it affect Pep’s admiration for ‘El Loco’?
“My respect remains the same, absolutely the same,” Pep said of Bielsa. “I admired what he has done in the past, why should I change my opinion? I know him, I would not say perfectly, but a little bit. I understand Frank Lampard too, both sides are understandable.
“Barcelona was a bunker, it was impossible to see. The story is true. I saw the highlights, I didn’t see the whole press conference and no manager around the world works with the amount of information he produces for every single game and players. It is unique. What I learned from what he said is that football belongs to the players. The players make the difference.” GOOO ON PEP
Klopp
“What do you think was the reason for the curtains (around the pitch at Melwood)?” Klopp began.
“We use the curtain when we train the set-pieces and with the players who are available for the weekend.
“Minus 2 and minus one days (before a match) the curtains are in place as these are important sessions.
“I can understand Bielsa wants to have all the information but we have to accept we don’t get that.
“We have to respect the last 2 sessions before a game. Only a few people should see that – I think we all agree on that.
“He is an outstanding coach and role model for so many: when I came I didn’t see 51 games of Derby.
“I respect him a lot but that’s not how it should be. In the last couple of sessions only a few people should see. That’s how it should be.”
Sarri
Asked whether he has ever seen anything like the Bielsa story, Sarri said: “Yes. In Italy, yes. I don't know what to say. I prefer to study my opponents by video.
"I think it's very difficult to have a lot of information in the last two days (before a game). I don't like this. Of course, every coach tries to have information about the opponents. But I don't like the way. It doesn't happen a lot in Italy, but it does happen.”
Sarri then joked about why he has never been guilty of spying.
“I've never done it. Because I don't have very good spies.”
Signed
King Cjay
Fountain of all knowledge and wisdom
King Cjay
Fountain of all knowledge and wisdom
Re: Not What Was Expected
I hope MB can see the outrage for what it is; a media storm fuelled by rank hypocrisy, which is no reflection of the esteem in which he is held by all those who matter, not least his own players and fans.
I also hope he doesn't feel hurt by this personally, or blame himself too harshly, especially if the club are punished as a result.
I also hope he doesn't feel hurt by this personally, or blame himself too harshly, especially if the club are punished as a result.
- weasel
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Re: Not What Was Expected
I think the basic upshot is that if you don't want the risk of people seeing what you are working on then, like Klopp says, get curtains, or Pep says, use a bunker or some other way of hiding your training pitch from the public. Don't complain about people seeing what you are doing when you have a pitch that is open for every man and his dog to view. How much would it cost to put proper fencing (with screening so you can't see through) all around one training pitch - bet it would cost less than what Ashley Cole will earn in a week.
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Re: Not What Was Expected
pep as been silent on the issue wonder why ?
Re: Not What Was Expected
Pep has backed Bielsa 100% this afternoon in he's presser :-
Guardiola has regularly cited Bielsa as a mentor, having sought his advice before entering coaching, and insists the high esteem in which he holds the 63-year-old is unaffected.
“No, the respect remains absolutely the same. He was absolutely clear in his statement,” the former Barcelona boss told a news conference previewing Sunday’s Premier League trip to Huddersfield Town.
“If I have admired before and he has done that [spying] in the past, why should I change my opinion?
“I understand Frank Lampard too. Both positions are more than understandable.”
saw the highlights, I did not see the whole press conference,” he said.
“No manager around the world works with this amount of information that he produces for every single game, for every single player, for every single movement.
“In the world it is unique how he works.”
Given his intact admiration for Bielsa, it followed that Guardiola was asked whether he had ever employed such clandestine tactics.
“In other countries, everybody does that,” he replied.
“When I was training Bayern Munich there were people on a little mountain – opponents with cameras – watching what we were doing.
“It was cultural for the clubs, not because I said, ‘you have to go to do that’. It was part of the culture "
Thank you Pep, we wont forget your backing.
Guardiola has regularly cited Bielsa as a mentor, having sought his advice before entering coaching, and insists the high esteem in which he holds the 63-year-old is unaffected.
“No, the respect remains absolutely the same. He was absolutely clear in his statement,” the former Barcelona boss told a news conference previewing Sunday’s Premier League trip to Huddersfield Town.
“If I have admired before and he has done that [spying] in the past, why should I change my opinion?
“I understand Frank Lampard too. Both positions are more than understandable.”
saw the highlights, I did not see the whole press conference,” he said.
“No manager around the world works with this amount of information that he produces for every single game, for every single player, for every single movement.
“In the world it is unique how he works.”
Given his intact admiration for Bielsa, it followed that Guardiola was asked whether he had ever employed such clandestine tactics.
“In other countries, everybody does that,” he replied.
“When I was training Bayern Munich there were people on a little mountain – opponents with cameras – watching what we were doing.
“It was cultural for the clubs, not because I said, ‘you have to go to do that’. It was part of the culture "
Thank you Pep, we wont forget your backing.
LEEDS AND FOREVER PROUD TO BE !!
- weasel
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Re: Not What Was Expected
Surely Klopp must be charged by the FA as he has basically accused every team on spying by saying that they feel the need to use curtains. We all know that this sort of thing doesn't go on in Britain so for Klopp to use curtains is disgusting and racist. How dare he come into this country and accuse everyone of spying.Cjay wrote: ↑Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:06 pm Klopp
“What do you think was the reason for the curtains (around the pitch at Melwood)?” Klopp began.
“We use the curtain when we train the set-pieces and with the players who are available for the weekend.
“Minus 2 and minus one days (before a match) the curtains are in place as these are important sessions.
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Re: Not What Was Expected
In fact I would go further and demand that the FA charge every team that has security around their training facilities or are in any way trying to stop anyone from seeing them train. Those teams are blatantly suggesting that if they didn't have those precautions in place they would be spied on and that is vile and disgusting as we all know that no english team would ever or has ever viewed another team training. Any team that doesn't train in a public park where anybody is able to watch, but obviously nobody would watch, should be charged.
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Re: Not What Was Expected
Be interested to know how many of the Championships training grounds are actually accessible and can be viewed from public areas. Not many I think even using binoculars, allegedly
Re: Not What Was Expected
Pep in a interview today says these spying missions happen all the time especially in Europe
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- mothbanquet
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Re: Not What Was Expected
Not many places where your mom's your aunt and your dad's your uncle.mothbanquet wrote: ↑Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:59 am Now now, just because they like to keep things 'in the family', doesn't mean they're extraterrestrials.
What's that greeting all about.
Ay up me duck.