Millwall...

[fred]

Not sure what to think if they would get into the play-offs, even less if they went up...time to stop supporting Leeds I guess.

[The Subhuman]

Meh team on a good run but it appears really well coached. Not really seeing anybody that would improve us big time though

[Cjay]

Shows what can be done by a good coach regardless of budget.

Millwall went up in my estimation with the Toby Nye donations.

[Clive]

They were 6 points behind us when Christiansen was sacked, now they're 9 in front.

[1964white]

Shows what can be done by a good coach regardless of budget.

Wall were stronger, tougher & better than us in both games this season

[Clive]

Wall were stronger, tougher & better than us in both games this season

They fell apart in the second game, we dominated them with 10 men.

[fred]

They fell apart in the second game, we dominated them with 10 men.

Yeah, but we fell apart in the last 10 minutes...understandably maybe... but all in all they must be doing something better than we are I guess. With far less money available...I just think our scouting is average at best.

[Clive]

Yeah, but we fell apart in the last 10 minutes...understandably maybe... but all in all they must be doing something better than we are I guess. With far less money available...I just think our scouting is average at best.

I think we took the lead too soon, it gave them time to get themselves together and come back into the game.

I don't think I've ever seen a performance like it with 10 men, though. We were amazing for most of that second half.

Are they doing something better than us or are we doing something worse than them? Such as sacking our manager and bringing in someone worse.

[fred]

Are they doing something better than us or are we doing something worse than them? Such as sacking our manager and bringing in someone worse.

Well, that`s your running `pain in the arse` I guess.
But if you understand bringing in coaches as being part of the scouting-precedure then we seem to have similar doubts.

[fred]

I think we took the lead too soon, it gave them time to get themselves together and come back into the game.

I don't think I've ever seen a performance like it with 10 men, though. We were amazing for most of that second half.

Too soon? If you`re 2 behind with 10 men, then it can`t come soon enough. Had we scored all 3 within the first 10 minutes, we could have saved some energy for the last 15 minutes. But we had to give more than we had until we had scored 3...we were dead legs walking the last 15 minutes. (The reason Roofe came off in his own words: totally `empty`.)

Was a great fight back, no doubt about that though.

[Clive]

Too soon? If you`re 2 behind with 10 men, then it can`t come soon enough. Had we scored all 3 within the first 10 minutes, we could have saved some energy for the last 15 minutes. But we had to give more than we had until we had scored 3...we were dead legs walking the last 15 minutes. (The reason Roofe came off in his own words: totally `empty`.)

Was a great fight back, no doubt about that though.

Yeah but if we'd gone ahead late on Millwall wouldn't have had chance to come back.

[weasel]

Agree with Clive and made the point at the time that as soon as we scored, to go in front, our levels dropped and our gameplan shifted from going for it, with nothing to lose, to trying to hold onto our lead. That said we did also have a couple of decent chances after that but the story of our season has been one of missing crucial chances that we generally took last season.

[fred]

Yeah but if we'd gone ahead late on Millwall wouldn't have had chance to come back.

lol...are you saying that just to say something contradicting? So best tactic would have been to wait 20 minutes until we try to score?

[fred]

Agree with Clive and made the point at the time that as soon as we scored, to go in front, our levels dropped and our gameplan shifted from going for it, with nothing to lose, to trying to hold onto our lead. That said we did also have a couple of decent chances after that but the story of our season has been one of missing crucial chances that we generally took last season.

BS...sorry, but we just had not enough energy left to keep it going. The players subed said it themselves.

[weasel]

Not BS at all but it becomes a change in your intensity as you get in front and at that point I reckon half the players felt that was it job done and then let their levels dropped. I remember a game I played in where we started the match with just 8 players (v 11) and worked our socks off for half an hour keeping the game 0-0. Then 3 of our players arrived late and within five minutes of them joining the match we conceded 3 times and for me the reason was that the intensity of the starting 8 dropped as we thought we'd done the job. Contrast it to the Southampton match from years back when we were 3-0 but cameback to win 4-3 and it was a late goal (admittedly it was 11 v 11). I feel because we didn't get the winner until late we kept on attacking and the gameplan didn't change. If we'd have gone 4-3 up in that match then again maybe we'd have switched off thinking the match was won and given Southampton a chance to get an equaliser.

[Clive]

lol...are you saying that just to say something contradicting? So best tactic would have been to wait 20 minutes until we try to score?

No, tactics don't come into it.

We were 2-0 down with 10 men so we had nothing to lose, if it had stayed 2-2 then Millwall would probably have just taken a point.

Once we took the lead Millwall had nothing to lose, plus they had the extra man and there was enough time left for them to come back into the game.

[fred]

No, tactics don't come into it.

We were 2-0 down with 10 men so we had nothing to lose, if it had stayed 2-2 then Millwall would probably have just taken a point.

Once we took the lead Millwall had nothing to lose, plus they had the extra man and there was enough time left for them to come back into the game.

Sorry mate, but sounds ridiculous. Of course one can imagine the fictional perfect situation. That being that we score the third in the last minute etc. (better scenario than yours!). But that`s not thinking tactics. I believe almost every fan wouldn`t have settled for a draw (maybe if we had scored the fourth...)and righly so...exactly not beating teams like Millwall (draws get you nowhere) at home cost us the chance of the play-offs. At the time we were within 3 points of the play-offs, so a win against a team way behind us in the table seemed a must. (And indeed it was exactly that.)
Another point is, that tactics don`t happen to work in such games...we scored our third in the 62. Minute, they scored twice in the 87. and 92. Minute. The only tactic is (being 2 goal and one man down) to give everythink from start and then look where it takes you. Without such relentless onslaught (without any thoughts if the energies would last) we would never have come back into the game. And be mindful (?!) enough to say after the equalizer: `Better we slow the pace down, sit deeper. invite there pressure`, well the dynamics of the game had flushed them down the toilett.
But even if your scenario had actually been reality...who could say that under those circumstances we would have held out for a shitty draw (if we had scored at all), Millwall not having enough time to ajust, and pleased with a point...now that is what I call critizising on a level beyond reality, it`s pure nonsense. Enough stuff to be critizised I guess, but certainly not the second half against Millwall. (We lost the game in an aweful first half. Ran out of steam 5-10 minutes to early (our attackers came off because they simply couldn`t run anymore, maybe the subs weren`t ideal...letting Millall press us back, as we had no real threat going forward after the subs)...but almost got 3 points, after all had seemed lost. A draw would have felt like a loss to me...in some games it`s `all in` and we were unlucky it didn`t work.

You critizise from hindsight, but did you moan after we went ahead? `Oh, too early, too early lads..äh...worse: not good at all teasing Millwall, if we behave (don`t score a third!) they might be lame enough to leave us a point.`
All in all: one of the best reactions from a Leeds team I can remember, that we lost at the end...no problem für me: we gave it all, and how often can that be said of our performances? The crowd was tremendous that day also...

[Elland back]

Fair play to the Wall. Theirbudget is a fraction of ours, but they have more heart, more determination and a better team ethic than us.

[fred]

Fair play to the Wall. Theirbudget is a fraction of ours, but they have more heart, more determination and a better team ethic than us.

Yes, a hard working unit without outstanding individuals. Getting the most out of them, by implementing a playing concept that suits there strenghs.

[Clive]

Sorry mate, but sounds ridiculous. Of course one can imagine the fictional perfect situation. That being that we score the third in the last minute etc. (better scenario than yours!). But that`s not thinking tactics. I believe almost every fan wouldn`t have settled for a draw (maybe if we had scored the fourth...)and righly so...exactly not beating teams like Millwall (draws get you nowhere) at home cost us the chance of the play-offs. At the time we were within 3 points of the play-offs, so a win against a team way behind us in the table seemed a must. (And indeed it was exactly that.)
Another point is, that tactics don`t happen to work in such games...we scored our third in the 62. Minute, they scored twice in the 87. and 92. Minute. The only tactic is (being 2 goal and one man down) to give everythink from start and then look where it takes you. Without such relentless onslaught (without any thoughts if the energies would last) we would never have come back into the game. And be mindful (?!) enough to say after the equalizer: `Better we slow the pace down, sit deeper. invite there pressure`, well the dynamics of the game had flushed them down the toilett.
But even if your scenario had actually been reality...who could say that under those circumstances we would have held out for a shitty draw (if we had scored at all), Millwall not having enough time to ajust, and pleased with a point...now that is what I call critizising on a level beyond reality, it`s pure nonsense. Enough stuff to be critizised I guess, but certainly not the second half against Millwall. (We lost the game in an aweful first half. Ran out of steam 5-10 minutes to early (our attackers came off because they simply couldn`t run anymore, maybe the subs weren`t ideal...letting Millall press us back, as we had no real threat going forward after the subs)...but almost got 3 points, after all had seemed lost. A draw would have felt like a loss to me...in some games it`s `all in` and we were unlucky it didn`t work.

You critizise from hindsight, but did you moan after we went ahead? `Oh, too early, too early lads..äh...worse: not good at all teasing Millwall, if we behave (don`t score a third!) they might be lame enough to leave us a point.`
All in all: one of the best reactions from a Leeds team I can remember, that we lost at the end...no problem für me: we gave it all, and how often can that be said of our performances? The crowd was tremendous that day also...

You've called me ridiculous, written all that and then you've ended up agreeing with me.

I said tactics don't come into it, I said it was one of the best performances with 10 men I've seen. I've not criticised anything about that second half, it's other people who use that game as a stick to bash Christiansen with.

I don't understand how you can think I was suggesting we should have used a tactic of timing when to score or settling for a draw. I'm just explaining that going ahead when we did gave Millwall time to regroup, whereas a late goal would have killed them. In the end the late equaliser from them killed us and they were then able to get the winner.