Joel Piroe

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Kennyb41
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Re: Joel Piroe

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Cjay wrote: Mon Feb 26, 2024 5:09 pm So we need to stop praising Bielsa for coaching Bamford and making him better then?

Either Bamford was massively improved by Bielsa and his coaching in his time here, in which case Farke should be able to coach Piroe who has shown Championship record wise he far exceeds Bamford before he got here in basically every way.

Or Bielsa did very little to help Bamford and it was all Bamford not the coach that made him better

Can't be both
Bert was also probably trying to teach it Roberts and others, it doesn't mean they'll grasp it, or be able to do it.

KP also had a very specific role of reading the play for Bert, Bert identified who he thought was the best for it out of what he inherited and subsequently sold Viera, so just common sense says out of those 2 he decided KP was the one who got the role the most.
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Re: Joel Piroe

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1964white wrote: Mon Feb 26, 2024 5:15 pm Bamford was struggling with injuries & form then, now we are seeing the Paddy that served us well in our first season back in the Premier League.
So a purple patch and all is forgotten but Piroe is useless after a handful of marches in his best role after 0 pre season?
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Re: Joel Piroe

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lufc1304 wrote: Mon Feb 26, 2024 1:40 pm Can't we recognise the importance of Bamford without slagging off a player who has been the most prolific goalscorer in the Championship over the last two seasons and already has 11 whilst predominantly being played out of position. Bigging up one player doesn't need to be offset by denigrating another. All Leeds Aren't We?
I'm not slagging Piroe off, I'm just emphasizing his lack of work rate & Joel has been poor of late. Also, we seem to be a more efficient team when Paddy is our No.9.

I'm intrigued to know what Piroe gives us, when he's not scoring goals?
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Re: Joel Piroe

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I hope i'm not included in this 'slagging off Piroe' because you can look back, i have never once slagged Piroe.

And i stated yonks back, if we get a 100% PB into this DF set up, we go up, simples.

Yonks back i said that.
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Re: Joel Piroe

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Kennyb41 wrote: Mon Feb 26, 2024 5:21 pm Yes he can teach him.

That doesn't mean he'll learn.
Maybe not.

But a guy whose been coached by Luc Nilis, Roy Maakay and Ruud Van Nistelrooy and has spoken about how each helped him doesn't strike me as someone who doesn't take advice on board.

Maybe just needs time no?

A pre season perhaps.
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Re: Joel Piroe

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Cjay wrote: Mon Feb 26, 2024 5:30 pm So a purple patch and all is forgotten but Piroe is useless after a handful of marches in his best role after 0 pre season?
I didn't say Piroe is useless!
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Re: Joel Piroe

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The next game PB starts i urge anyone to track PB every minute of the game, see where he puts himself, see how he occupies defenders, see where he pops up, see how he goes wide opening gaps, see how he splits 2 players when they're trying to bring it out.

No 2 minds think alike, PB just does what he thinks is the best thing to do at any given time, those that go to a live game, just find PB all the time and focus on him as much as you can, track him like one of those Sky cameras sometimes do with players.

It's a very interesting thing to do at a live game, especially to teach any kid that wants to be a footballer.

Don't follow the play, just look where the man you're following is for all the 90mins, even if he's just stood on the halfway line whilst Leeds are defending.
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Re: Joel Piroe

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Kennyb41 wrote: Mon Feb 26, 2024 5:43 pm The next game PB starts i urge anyone to track PB every minute of the game, see where he puts himself, see how he occupies defenders, see where he pops up, see how he goes wide opening gaps, see how he splits 2 players when they're trying to bring it out.

No 2 minds think alike, PB just does what he thinks is the best thing to do at any given time, those that go to a live game, just find PB all the time and focus on him as much as you can, track him like one of those Sky cameras sometimes do with players.

It's a very interesting thing to do at a live game, especially to teach any kid that wants to be a footballer.

Don't follow the play, just look where the man you're following is for all the 90mins, even if he's just stood on the halfway line whilst Leeds are defending.
Bang on, Kenny boy :tup:
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Re: Joel Piroe

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Kennyb41 wrote: Mon Feb 26, 2024 5:25 pm Bert was also probably trying to teach it Roberts and others, it doesn't mean they'll grasp it, or be able to do it.

KP also had a very specific role of reading the play for Bert, Bert identified who he thought was the best for it out of what he inherited and subsequently sold Viera, so just common sense says out of those 2 he decided KP was the one who got the role the most.
But for 12 months it was Kemar Roofe Bielsa preferred.

The fans as well.

It took 12months for Bamford to earn the full trust of Bielsa, 1.5 pre seasons.

Piroe didn't arrive till 24th of August.

He's had managers playing him on the left of a 3, behind the main striker, in a 2 up front, on his own as the lone striker.

2 years moved all around and yet outperformed Paddy goals, assists, link up and basically every attacking metric even when Paddy was 9 in this league.

Who else did that happen to? Bamford before he came here.

It took 2 seasons as a 9 and a lot of defending and stubbornness even from Bielsa when fans wanted Nketiah Or JKA Or Gelhardt and hard work I'm sure on the training ground from both before Paddy really earned some faith from the fans.

So surely Piroe deserves the same time and the same chances? You can't teach Piroe to be faster of course.

You can teach him to press more intelligently, you can teach him to drop less deep at times (Bamford went through exactly the same thing).

It happens when players play different roles.
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Re: Joel Piroe

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Cjay wrote: Mon Feb 26, 2024 5:34 pm Maybe not.

But a guy whose been coached by Luc Nilis, Roy Maakay and Ruud Van Nistelrooy and has spoken about how each helped him doesn't strike me as someone who doesn't take advice on board.

Maybe just needs time no?

A pre season perhaps.
Yes i've been thinking that myself.

DF could sit down with PB and Piroe going over a game highlighting what and where PB does things differently.

To me atm, Piroe up top is a bit of a luxury item especially if work is needed coz we're playing a top team, but put him in next v Hudds and there's no reason he might bag a hattrick.

I'll tell you where i think Piroe would score an absolute bag of goals - If it was allowed to play 12, stick him in a 4-2-3-2, and he wouldn't stop scoring, especially alongside PB.

And no, i'm not sure 4-4-2 would work.
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Re: Joel Piroe

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Kennyb41 wrote: Mon Feb 26, 2024 5:34 pm I hope i'm not included in this 'slagging off Piroe' because you can look back, i have never once slagged Piroe.

And i stated yonks back, if we get a 100% PB into this DF set up, we go up, simples.

Yonks back i said that.
There's a few on here who have questioned Paddy's inclusion in the team, even though he has scored six goals & made one assist in his last eight or nine appearances, including the goal of the season at Peterbro.

Bamford's movement/runs are excellent, he occupies centre-backs high up the pitch & generally makes a nuisance of himself for the opposition to mark, his work rate is immense!
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Re: Joel Piroe

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Infact i do think 4-4-2 could work against some sides, especially because of our wingers, but i think 4-4-2 tends to fck PB up, similar to how i feel it fcks KP up in his 2 man mid role.
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Re: Joel Piroe

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1964white wrote: Mon Feb 26, 2024 5:53 pm There's a few on here who have questioned Paddy's inclusion in the team, even though he has scored six goals & made one assist in his last eight or nine appearances, including the goal of the season at Peterbro.

Bamford's movement/runs are excellent, he occupies centre-backs high up the pitch & generally makes a nuisance of himself for the opposition to mark, his work rate is immense!
I've only ever slagged PB off me 1. For going picking the ball up for a penalty 2. For being a fcking pussie with namby pamby injuries 3. For not scoring half as many easy chances as he should, jeez if he had Piroes finishing :shock: :!: Now that would be a player.
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Re: Joel Piroe

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1964white wrote: Mon Feb 26, 2024 5:34 pm I didn't say Piroe is useless!
Piroe vs Bamford in this league on the best day Piroe wins.

He's proven that with his record (go look at the article by Phil Hay when we signed him)

Not just goals, not just assists, link play, occupying defenders, all of it.

The only area Paddy comes out on top is running stats, sprints, fitness work.

That comes from training, that takes time.

Simple as that.
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Re: Joel Piroe

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Cjay wrote: Mon Feb 26, 2024 5:46 pm It took 2 seasons as a 9 and a lot of defending and stubbornness even from Bielsa when fans wanted Nketiah Or JKA Or Gelhardt and hard work I'm sure on the training ground from both before Paddy really earned some faith from the fans.
Hang on a minute, Bamford suffered a cruciate ligament & then picked-up another knee ligament injury so he missed a huge chunk of his first season at Leeds. I remember him scoring the winner at Bolton on his comeback & after another lay-off he scored the goal in our 1-3 loss against Norwich.
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Re: Joel Piroe

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Kennyb41 wrote: Mon Feb 26, 2024 5:51 pm Yes i've been thinking that myself.

DF could sit down with PB and Piroe going over a game highlighting what and where PB does things differently.

To me atm, Piroe up top is a bit of a luxury item especially if work is needed coz we're playing a top team, but put him in next v Hudds and there's no reason he might bag a hattrick.

I'll tell you where i think Piroe would score an absolute bag of goals - If it was allowed to play 12, stick him in a 4-2-3-2, and he wouldn't stop scoring, especially alongside PB.

And no, i'm not sure 4-4-2 would work.
The fitness work Bielsa did with Bamford was crucial, that took time and pre seasons.

Piroe hasn't had that luxury through no fault of his own.

https://archive.ph/sdieS

That is the article I said Leon should look at.

The one area he doesn't exceed Bamford is the running stuff, that is purely fixable by coaching and time and faith from Farke.

Bielsa showed a lot of that in Bamford
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Re: Joel Piroe

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1964white wrote: Mon Feb 26, 2024 6:04 pm Hang on a minute, Bamford suffered a cruciate ligament & then picked-up another knee ligament injury so he missed a huge chunk of his first season at Leeds. I remember him scoring the winner at Bolton on his comeback & after another lay-off he scored the goal in our 1-3 loss against Norwich.
And Roofe got injured as well.

Go back and look, people preferred Roofe to Bamford and were convinced we'd have won the playoffs with him.

Surely you aren't going to argue people have been huge fans of Bamford in his time here?

Rightly or wrongly he's probably the most criticised player over the last 5 years.
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Re: Joel Piroe

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Cjay wrote: Mon Feb 26, 2024 6:01 pm Piroe vs Bamford in this league on the best day Piroe wins.

He's proven that with his record (go look at the article by Phil Hay when we signed him)

Not just goals, not just assists, link play, occupying defenders, all of it.

The only area Paddy comes out on top is running stats, sprints, fitness work.

That comes from training, that takes time.

Simple as that.
Minutes per goal - Bamford 146 mins

Minutes per goal - Piroe 221 mins

So Paddy wins that one important factor.
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Re: Joel Piroe

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Cjay wrote: Mon Feb 26, 2024 6:07 pm The fitness work Bielsa did with Bamford was crucial, that took time and pre seasons.

Piroe hasn't had that luxury through no fault of his own.

https://archive.ph/sdieS

That is the article I said Leon should look at.

The one area he doesn't exceed Bamford is the running stuff, that is purely fixable by coaching and time and faith from Farke.

Bielsa showed a lot of that in Bamford


I have absolutely no problem in the slightest with Piroe, but for me PB is currently our best for the lone role, especially with Rutter just behind.
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Re: Joel Piroe

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Cjay wrote: Mon Feb 26, 2024 6:09 pm And Roofe got injured as well.

Go back and look, people preferred Roofe to Bamford and were convinced we'd have won the playoffs with him.

Surely you aren't going to argue people have been huge fans of Bamford in his time here?

Rightly or wrongly he's probably the most criticised player over the last 5 years.
Wrongly, very wrongly., and mainly by the feckin muppet brigade in the South stand no doubt.

PB will score you a worldie, then miss you a sitter, prior to Bert on another thread i slagged him to fck along the same lines as Dallas, but then Bert found something in them both, and they were transformed, cfk knows what it was, but 80% of it was peak fitness.
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