The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 25th January) - Fabrizio Romano: McKennie agrees personal terms with Leeds

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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 25th January) - Fabrizio Romano: McKennie agrees personal terms with Leeds

Post by Jaydog »

SaraM wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:02 pm You just need to swear a bit more!
I’ll f**king work on it
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 25th January) - Fabrizio Romano: McKennie agrees personal terms with Leeds

Post by Sara »

Jaydog wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:17 pm I’ll f**king work on it
C...!
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 25th January) - Fabrizio Romano: McKennie agrees personal terms with Leeds

Post by Jaydog »

SaraM wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:20 pmC...!
Now now.
Strange though isn’t it. The ultimate taboo word.
I’d say above all others. What if trout was offensive. Or cul-de-sac. That’s where I don’t really understand words. Who decided that we can’t say something and for some reason we all went along with it.
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 25th January) - Fabrizio Romano: McKennie agrees personal terms with Leeds

Post by Sara »

Jaydog wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:31 pm Now now.
Strange though isn’t it. The ultimate taboo word.
I’d say above all others. What if trout was offensive. Or cul-de-sac. That’s where I don’t really understand words. Who decided that we can’t say something and for some reason we all went along with it.
Yeah, when you think of it like that, it's nonsensical. I presume, historically, certain Anglo-Saxon words fell out of favour after the Norman Conquest. Then puritanical Protestantism demonised anything to do with bodily and sexual functions. So now we think these words are 'rude'.

There's an obvious element of misogyny in reserving special ire for the 'c' word. I think it shares a root meaning with the word 'cunning', although that is debated.
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 25th January) McKennie discussing terms with Orta

Post by BlackHillsPaul »

SaraM wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 8:21 pm Pretty much what Cjay said; you can't help wondering if there isn't an eye on pushing Leeds as the American fan's PL team of choice, which would be a business decision rather than a footballing one.

I don't think you can draw an analogy between American and European players because the former are far less common at this level. That's no slight on the players themselves, just a factual observation. Are there any other PL teams with three American first team players, alongside two American coaches and soon to be American owners? Were there no others of equivalent value and quality available?

As to WHY the potential Americanisation of our club concerns me; I suppose it's primarily a fear of the loss of our historical identity. During my lifetime, many aspects of our society have become progressively more Americanised; language, film, food, music, politics... I see it as a trend towards global homogenisation, a kind of McWorld imperialism. I strongly prefer variety and diversity. No doubt you will tell me that American culture itself is founded in diversity, and it is, but that's not what is being spread by the forces of global corporatism, and US foreign policy over the last several decades.

The US as a global superpower has imposed its values and its culture everywhere it has gone. Maybe you see this as a good thing? Maybe you feel American values and culture are inherently superior, and the rest of the world should feel grateful for being subsumed in this way. If so, I see it differently, and we will have to agree to differ.

Again, please don't misinterpret this as any kind of 'animus' against Americans themselves. I listen to American music and podcasts, read American books, watch American films, have American relatives and friends. But I don't want the whole world to become America, and I don't want Leeds to become a club with an American identity.

I suspect you're not going to be able to hear this without getting defensive, but that in itself is a key to understanding what I'm saying. I couldn't imagine I'd be having this conversation with a fan from any other country.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I'm choosing not to respond to any of it. Other than to say your last paragraph is pure gaslighting. And I'm not having it. Moving on...
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 25th January) - Fabrizio Romano: McKennie agrees personal terms with Leeds

Post by Jaydog »

SaraM wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:41 pm Yeah, when you think of it like that, it's nonsensical. I presume, historically, certain Anglo-Saxon words fell out of favour after the Norman Conquest. Then puritanical Protestantism demonised anything to do with bodily and sexual functions. So now we think these words are 'rude'.

There's an obvious element of misogyny in reserving special ire for the 'c' word. I think it shares a root meaning with the word 'cunning', although that is debated.
Misogyny? You mean because it’s specifically a “female” word. So the equivalent should be equally shocking. But it isn’t.
Do you use the c word at home? With your partner?
I mean I’ll say f**k twat c**k to my wife in conversation. And so does she. Not all the time but in context, not just for no reason. But never the c word. Because we are programmed to dislike it. Its origins are confused & convoluted.
I find it quite fascinating. A word that can truly shock people. I don’t think there’s another one. Maybe the N word
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 25th January) McKennie discussing terms with Orta

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BlackHillsPaul wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 6:00 pm Not sure what to make of this comment Sara. I hope you are not transferring your animus toward our American Manager onto our American players. I think that would be entirely unfair. The signings of Aaronson, Adams, and potentially McKennie stand on their own merit. All three are good young International players that featured in the World Cup for a Top 15 FIFA ranked side. They were all playing Champion's League football when we acquired them. In the case of Adams and McKennie they were/are performing at top clubs in big five leagues. It seems to me those are the types of signings we should be pursuing. But you are concerned it's just a marketing ploy. Hmm...

Would it be a marketing ploy if Leeds were able to sign a couple more Italian Internationals currently playing in top five leagues at Champion's League Clubs? After all we do have an Italian owner. Or is this just a standard that we apply to Americans? And if that's the case WHY do you feel that way?
Here’s my take - take Marsch out of this equation and the suggestion we are in danger of losing our identity would evaporate.

However, I do agree that the signing’s may be considered as a win win for the board in terms of generating interest in the US for the club. But hasn’t this been a strategy with other clubs signing high profile Japanese and South Korean players. The US market is relatively untapped source of revenue, it makes good business sense to exploit that opportunity.

However, if we sign Sylvester Stallone as a back up keeper or Tommy Hilfiger gets the contract to make our shirts I would share your concerns. Although I would queue to buy one.
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 25th January) McKennie discussing terms with Orta

Post by Sara »

BlackHillsPaul wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:55 pm Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I'm choosing not to respond to any of it. Other than to say your last paragraph is pure gaslighting. And I'm not having it. Moving on...
That's certainly not my intention.
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 25th January) - Fabrizio Romano: McKennie agrees personal terms with Leeds

Post by andrewjohnsmith »

McKennie -= Excellent signing. Doesn't matter what country he was born in. Shows great ambition by the club too.

Harrison - Would love to see him stay as part of the squad but continually suspect he doesn't fit Jesse's style. He's got a year and change on his contract. Take the money.

Accrington - 8 days between that game and Forest. Play a strong team, but get a few of the bench players involved.
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 25th January) - Fabrizio Romano: McKennie agrees personal terms with Leeds

Post by Sara »

Jaydog wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:04 pm Misogyny? You mean because it’s specifically a “female” word. So the equivalent should be equally shocking. But it isn’t. Do you use the c word at home? With your partner?
I mean I’ll say f**k twat c**k to my wife in conversation. And so does she. Not all the time but in context, not just for no reason. But never the c word. Because we are programmed to dislike it. Its origins are confused & convoluted.
I find it quite fascinating. A word that can truly shock people. I don’t think there’s another one. Maybe the N word
Yes, and yes again, it gets used a lot here!

There has been a feminist attempt to reclaim it for women, in the same way queer or the N word have been reclaimed by the communities targeted. I use it deliberately with that intention, and don't like its use being censored.
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 25th January) McKennie discussing terms with Orta

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BlackHillsPaul wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:55 pm Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I'm choosing not to respond to any of it. Other than to say your last paragraph is pure gaslighting. And I'm not having it. Moving on...
It's a shame you seem to feel it's beneath you to respond; is any implied criticism of the US off limits?

Fwiw, I'm every bit as critical of the UK, and don't have a problem engaging with other people's criticisms of the place I happen to be born in.
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 25th January) - Fabrizio Romano: McKennie agrees personal terms with Leeds

Post by Jaydog »

SaraM wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:17 pm Yes, and yes again, it gets used a lot here!

There has been a feminist attempt to reclaim it for women, in the same way queer or the N word have been reclaimed by the communities targeted. I use it deliberately with that intention, and don't like its use being censored.
Good for you. I try and support the cause whenever I can, especially if I hit my effing finger with a hammer. Then it’s c c c c c and guess what. I feel better. A natural painkiller
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 25th January) - Fabrizio Romano: McKennie agrees personal terms with Leeds

Post by Sara »

Jaydog wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:54 pm Good for you. I try and support the cause whenever I can, especially if I hit my effing finger with a hammer. Then it’s c c c c c and guess what. I feel better. A natural painkiller
Excellent, great to have you onboard!
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 25th January) - Fabrizio Romano: McKennie agrees personal terms with Leeds

Post by BobHirst »

SaraM wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:17 pm Yes, and yes again, it gets used a lot here!

There has been a feminist attempt to reclaim it for women, in the same way queer or the N word have been reclaimed by the communities targeted. I use it deliberately with that intention, and don't like its use being censored.
So the next time I persistently disagree with you and you call me a d*ck I assume it's OK to call you a c*nt? :)
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 25th January) - Fabrizio Romano: McKennie agrees personal terms with Leeds

Post by BobHirst »

Jaydog wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:31 pm Now now.
Strange though isn’t it. The ultimate taboo word.
I’d say above all others. What if trout was offensive. Or cul-de-sac. That’s where I don’t really understand words. Who decided that we can’t say something and for some reason we all went along with it.
I've had this conversation with my grand children. Well obviously not about F and C words.
We had a good time making up conversations imagining that the person called a foot an elephant etc etc. It does make you wonder why they chose the word they did.
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 25th January) McKennie discussing terms with Orta

Post by BlackHillsPaul »

SaraM wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:45 pm It's a shame you seem to feel it's beneath you to respond; is any implied criticism of the US off limits?

Fwiw, I'm every bit as critical of the UK, and don't have a problem engaging with other people's criticisms of the place I happen to be born in.
I joined this forum to talk about Leeds United Football Club and to connect with other fans. Not to veer off into geopolitics. It's not "beneath me" to respond. I just choose not to. Like I said....moving on.
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 25th January) - Fabrizio Romano: McKennie agrees personal terms with Leeds

Post by Jaydog »

BobHirst wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 12:11 am I've had this conversation with my grand children. Well obviously not about F and C words.
We had a good time making up conversations imagining that the person called a foot an elephant etc etc. It does make you wonder why they chose the word they did.
Classic Bob. Has the kids rolling about laughing pretty quick.
Funny story about my nephew about 6 years old being allowed to stay up at a dinner party at my mums. Sat next to an old posh bloke. He dropped some peas and said “f**k it” under his breath. The old codger lent forward and said “what was that young man” and in a much louder voice so all could hear “I said f**k it” :)
Kids are always honest
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 25th January) - Fabrizio Romano: McKennie agrees personal terms with Leeds

Post by Sara »

BobHirst wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 12:04 am So the next time I persistently disagree with you and you call me a d*ck I assume it's OK to call you a c*nt? :)
Of course! Although let's not lose the nuance distinguishing the meanings of the words in current usage.
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 25th January) McKennie discussing terms with Orta

Post by Sara »

BlackHillsPaul wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 3:55 am I joined this forum to talk about Leeds United Football Club and to connect with other fans. Not to veer off into geopolitics. It's not "beneath me" to respond. I just choose not to. Like I said....moving on.
You demanded to know in capital letters WHY I might object to the Americanisation of my club. The implication was that there was some kind of prejudice against American players being at Leeds.

I took the time and trouble to unpack what that might be about, as honestly as I could. The historical identity and culture of Leeds United are important to fans, and that is what we were discussing, at your instigation.

I'll assume that 'moving on' means we now no longer have to pander to the sensibilities of Americans who follow the club every time we want to criticise Marsch, or question the signing of a player. That'll be a relief tbh, as it was getting rather tiresome.
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Re: The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Wednesday 25th January) - Fabrizio Romano: McKennie agrees personal terms with Leeds

Post by Kennyb41 »

SaraM wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 8:49 am Of course! Although let's not lose the nuance distinguishing the meanings of the words in current usage.
:ok:
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