Bilesa's teams couldn't defend

[BlackHillsPaul]

I would suggest that not having Kalvin Phillips in the side hurt us offensively more than it did defensively. In the ten games he was out we only scored 13 goals...

[Kennyb41]

Jeez i'm glad i've been out all day.

Fck me Weasel they are fcking braindead, i started to read your first post and knew immediately what you were trying to point out.

You have put 'it' perfectly, they will never as long as they've an hole in their arses get 'it'

I'm also astounded at Paul.

You just could not have summed 'it' up any better, and they are better off just left in the wilderness.

I'm absolutely dumbfounded at the replies. Ian and mountain have 'it' grasped, but fck me, the others, you'd be here all year pal.

Anyway back to your post - He did have the 5 players that were his first choice playing what he wanted beautifully, KP was soooooooo good at 'it' he really was very hard to follow, we were not rich so he HAD to try with what he had, but they were not a patch on KP, no one was a patch on LC, and that's saying summert and no one a patch on PB.

He could probably just about handle the loss of one of them, but it did become much weaker, at the end of the day, we didn't have the money, he wasn't given the time, and he had Orta trying to find adequate players to work with or step in to fill any void,

Some will just never understand how key players are vital to what Bert was trying to play and that some (KP being the main) are just irreplaceable no matter what, honestly, it was a cracking post, but you are pissing against the wind with these lot.

If your post did one thing - it highlighted that, they will just never grasp 'it'.

Great post.

Straight over their heads pal.

[Kennyb41]

Someone famously said that attack is the best form of defence. Bielsa certainly adhered to that tenet, which is probably why we were, for a time, everyone's second favourite team. And yes, it made us vulnerable, but it was fun!

Still struggling to see how the OP is a call for Bielsa's return, I'm not sure anyone has done that (bar Kenny, of course!!). My reading of it is that weasel is seeking to redress the claim by some that we couldn't defend under him and pointing out that with all key players available, we weren't as crap at it as has been suggested. Not sure where the harm is in that. And, as someone else pointed out, if 'Bielsa' is one of your trigger words, scroll on.

I don't always agree with everything that weasel, cjay or faaip, for example, post, but I'll always have a read as they offer reasoned arguments for their position and are much more knowledgeable on the tactical side of things than I am. This is a discussion forum, everything is fair game as long as it isn't abusive or offensive. And those who create posts with a view to generating traffic, traction, discussion, whatever you want to call it, shouldn't have their efforts denigrated simply because it doesn't chime with another's point of view. Argue your corner, don't just snipe and run, there really is no need. And it is counter-productive to getting posters to engage, something that is bemoaned at regular intervals on here.

Sorry i forgot about this 1304, this is spot on as well

[Kennyb41]

Ditto,

Just another wind up, for the MB cult.

Have you noticed this ^ and Velo's cheap digs, they offer absolutely fck all to the forum, but just lurk and get ready with there one liners, you never ever get well thought out and written posts like yours from them, they're way too scared, or more to the point, know fck all, jackshit, zilch, their posts rarely last longer than a few words and offer nowt in 'football' chat, that's coz they know fck all and will only get the pizz took out of them.

Hey! let's rate the ref !

Wit fcking woo.

Must dash.

[Kennyb41]

I would suggest that not having Kalvin Phillips in the side hurt us offensively more than it did defensively. In the ten games he was out we only scored 13 goals...

Absolute garbage.

KP was the key to absolutely everything.

[Kennyb41]

Teams who cant defend dont get promoted they get relegated.

Neither happened on his watch.

Bielsas teams were not defensive though, and we are all grateful for that

[Kennyb41]

You've certainly pipped up. I don't hate anyone my good man, such a futile waste of time and energy. I see this forum with subtle indifference and humour. I rarely ever take it seriously.

But you're glued to it, every minute of everyday just waiting for comments from the likes of Velo, then you can nip in with your slimey follow ups.

Are you single ?

[Kennyb41]

I recall Marcelo being asked just before the opening Prem game away to Liverpool if he would change the approach.
He said that he "would see" .
Of course we started that season so well and despite the odd tanking we were never under pressure to drop out of the league. Then the strong finish to the season gave us even more reasons to feel confident.

Should we have changed then?

Wasn't it a tribute to him and his newly promoted side that the following season most of the established clubs had to change their approach to combat what was in the end a highly depleted Leeds squad?

As for the injuries, as a consequence of them we hardly were able to play a settled team. Never mind playing Dan James as a false 9.
I'm surprised you think that when all you have to do is look at how most teams struggle when a key player is missing. At one point we had 10 seniors unavailable and some who did play were carrying injuries

Just saying

Absolutely spot on

keep saying.

[Kennyb41]

Someone famously said that attack is the best form of defence. Bielsa certainly adhered to that tenet, which is probably why we were, for a time, everyone's second favourite team. And yes, it made us vulnerable, but it was fun!

Still struggling to see how the OP is a call for Bielsa's return, I'm not sure anyone has done that (bar Kenny, of course!!). My reading of it is that weasel is seeking to redress the claim by some that we couldn't defend under him and pointing out that with all key players available, we weren't as crap at it as has been suggested. Not sure where the harm is in that. And, as someone else pointed out, if 'Bielsa' is one of your trigger words, scroll on.

I don't always agree with everything that weasel, cjay or faaip, for example, post, but I'll always have a read as they offer reasoned arguments for their position and are much more knowledgeable on the tactical side of things than I am. This is a discussion forum, everything is fair game as long as it isn't abusive or offensive. And those who create posts with a view to generating traffic, traction, discussion, whatever you want to call it, shouldn't have their efforts denigrated simply because it doesn't chime with another's point of view. Argue your corner, don't just snipe and run, there really is no need. And it is counter-productive to getting posters to engage, something that is bemoaned at regular intervals on here.

It wasn't at all you're correct.

It was perfectly summed up, and the posts to follow it are gobsmacking in how folk still just don't see 'it'

You've grasped 'it' in it's entirety.

[Jaydog]

KP might as well come back. He’s like a crab at Citeh. Sideways. Always sideways. That’s if he gets off the bench. Great career move

[weasel]

Interesting that those drubbings both had Koch playing and no Llorente.

I do think Llorente is a decent defender with the right players round him and him playing right of centre.

It is hard to state definitely when it comes to cause and effect because it can sometimes be something totally unrelated that is the biggest factor in something happening but I think the point still stands that when we had a settled defence, and KP, we were a fairly solid team. Also woth noting that Ben White played in evry match, if my memory recalls correctly, apart from the Derby match at the end of our promotion season. Cooper I think missed a few matches, as did KP but for the main part it was a settled defence and it showed with us conceding just 35 goals from 46 matches. The first season back in the premier league Koch, Llorente and Cooper were all injured for decent spells but when Llorente and Cooper/Struyjk got the run together with KP (9 out of the 11 matches) we were solid for the first time that season over a sizeable period (I also made the point that 3 of the 8 goals we conceded in those 11 matches were in the 2 matches KP missed).

Season 2 Premier League and it seemed we were constantly having to patch the defence up and that for me was the cause of the problem rather than the style of play - yes the style of play did leave us to being open at times but not any more or any less than we would have been at other points of Bielsa's reign - it was more that due to the quality of players we could select we weren't as good at keeping possession and didn't get back into the same shape we did when we had KP etc playing.

Bielsa with a settled selection defensively was decent, without it fairly woeful. As such there is no reason we can't be better defensively this season it just needs organisation better and that starts with the manager and changing Adam's role.

[weasel]

I would suggest that not having Kalvin Phillips in the side hurt us offensively more than it did defensively. In the ten games he was out we only scored 13 goals...

I hadn't really noticed the attacking side of things but it does just highlight how vital KP was. His ability to hit a long pass and take passes from our defence helped make us stronger defensively (i.e. we could get past opposition presses better) and as such made us far better at turning defence into attack.

[weasel]

Someone famously said that attack is the best form of defence. Bielsa certainly adhered to that tenet, which is probably why we were, for a time, everyone's second favourite team. And yes, it made us vulnerable, but it was fun!

Still struggling to see how the OP is a call for Bielsa's return, I'm not sure anyone has done that (bar Kenny, of course!!). My reading of it is that weasel is seeking to redress the claim by some that we couldn't defend under him and pointing out that with all key players available, we weren't as crap at it as has been suggested. Not sure where the harm is in that. And, as someone else pointed out, if 'Bielsa' is one of your trigger words, scroll on.

I don't always agree with everything that weasel, cjay or faaip, for example, post, but I'll always have a read as they offer reasoned arguments for their position and are much more knowledgeable on the tactical side of things than I am. This is a discussion forum, everything is fair game as long as it isn't abusive or offensive. And those who create posts with a view to generating traffic, traction, discussion, whatever you want to call it, shouldn't have their efforts denigrated simply because it doesn't chime with another's point of view. Argue your corner, don't just snipe and run, there really is no need. And it is counter-productive to getting posters to engage, something that is bemoaned at regular intervals on here.

Sorry somehow I missed this reply amongst the more predictable ones - only noticed after seeing Kenny's reply to it. You are spot on, I'm not calling for Bielsa's return, mainly as I feel he would never take the job again, but I hate seeing him tarnished unfairly and people stating stuff as fact, especially those who still say we have been a shamble defensively for years and seem to come up with every reason to discount those 2 seasons in the championship where we were pretty damn solid at the back.

It was also a defence of our defenders who I feel aren't as bad as many make out. Any defence just needs organising and help from the rest of the team. When George Graham took over at Leeds and made us solid defensively it was at the expense of nearly all attacking threat, you can't just defend as a back 4.

[Kennyb41]

I have absolutely no doubt given time Bert might've been able to work with llorente, Koch and possibly even Firpo and any other defenders, but that system is so finely tuned it has to be all of the players on the same wavelength, introducing A N Other one at a time would be perfect, whilst you're trying to get the likes of Forshaw etc up to speed if one is needed, but 3 or 4 and it's nigh on impossible.

Ask Pep or Klopp.

[weasel]

KP might as well come back. He’s like a crab at Citeh. Sideways. Always sideways. That’s if he gets off the bench. Great career move

Don't write KP off yet. A lot of players at City take at least a year before they start to show how good they are. Once/if he gets a run he will show his class. The trouble he has is that A) Rodri never gets injured and B) because City are playing catch up and can't afford to drop any points Rodri will keep being selected - usually they would have a few games where Pep could make a few chanegs and give players a rest.

[Kennyb41]

Sorry somehow I missed this reply amongst the more predictable ones - only noticed after seeing Kenny's reply to it. You are spot on, I'm not calling for Bielsa's return, mainly as I feel he would never take the job again, but I hate seeing him tarnished unfairly and people stating stuff as fact, especially those who still say we have been a shamble defensively for years and seem to come up with every reason to discount those 2 seasons in the championship where we were pretty damn solid at the back.

It was also a defence of our defenders who I feel aren't as bad as many make out. Any defence just needs organising and help from the rest of the team. When George Graham took over at Leeds and made us solid defensively it was at the expense of nearly all attacking threat, you can't just defend as a back 4.

No explanation necessary at all from me.

You've just highlighted their ignorance at the beautiful game he wanted to construct and the fact that even when it's written in black and white for them they just totally didn't get 'it'

I thought they were just acting dumb back then when all along they just didn't grasp it.

[weasel]

I have absolutely no doubt given time Bert might've been able to work with llorente, Koch and possibly even Firpo and any other defenders, but that system is so finely tuned it has to be all of the players on the same wavelength, introducing A N Other one at a time would be perfect, whilst you're trying to get the likes of Forshaw etc up to speed if one is needed, but 3 or 4 and it's nigh on impossible.

Ask Pep or Klopp.

Worth noting that MB never looked to play Forshaw as a defensive midfielder. He also seemed to see him as a box to box midfielder. Whatever he saw in KP he presumably didn't see it in Forshaw and didn't think it was possible to weave his magic on Forshaw. He saw something in KP and probably because of what MB managed to achieve with KP a lot of fans seemed to think he could just do that with anybody. Admittedly he did work his magic on a lot of our players but some players you just can't teach.

[weasel]

No explanation necessary at all from me.

You've just highlighted their ignorance at the beautiful game he wanted to construct and the fact that even when it's written in black and white for them they just totally didn't get 'it'

I thought they were just acting dumb back then when all along they just didn't grasp it.

I think there is a saying - There are none so dumb as those who are f*cking dumb!

[Jaydog]

Don't write KP off yet. A lot of players at City take at least a year before they start to show how good they are. Once/if he gets a run he will show his class. The trouble he has is that A) Rodri never gets injured and B) because City are playing catch up and can't afford to drop any points Rodri will keep being selected - usually they would have a few games where Pep could make a few chanegs and give players a rest.

Not really writing him off but when he was with us I suggested he could be World Class and somebody on here said really, don’t think so. But he looks a little too happy with a certain level to me. Resting on his laurels a little. Now he’s at City on mega bucks and when he’s played he looks a little bit sideways. Going through the motions.
Not every player is suited by a big club like City. Some people just want to play. But you can get used to sitting on your arse for 50k a week

[Kennyb41]

I hadn't really noticed the attacking side of things but it does just highlight how vital KP was. His ability to hit a long pass and take passes from our defence helped make us stronger defensively (i.e. we could get past opposition presses better) and as such made us far better at turning defence into attack.

Exactly, KP was key to everything, helping to play out from the back, filling in, winning the ball, pinpointing the threat, breaking play down, then if we had it - making himself available to be passed to, creating space for others, receiving the ball and playing it out, short distribution, long passes forward, moving up to the next third of the pitch to do the same again, then into the final third, that's why KP hardly ever scored, he was too busy doing everything else.

Adams is the closest we have to him, and Jesse would do well to spot this quickly and get 4-1 in front of him.

1 player with a great eye like KP can do that job on their own, when 2 are put there, they sometimes get in each others way, and are also drawn to the same ball leaving gaping holes.