Leeds Utd v Newcastle Utd Match Thread - Rodrigo starts, Joffy on the bench

[CHAPELALLMAN]

You will stay up you don't have to worry about that mate, you have a waiting list on matchday tickets as far as I'm aware, I could be wrong but?

So having a bigger stadium will allow you to bring in more matchday revenue, which in turn will allow more money to be available for the playing squad.

We have a major issue with spending wisely what funds are available though....Did you say that you want Victor Orta ?

[White Riot]

and probably also 16 or 17m on JKA if the court case goes against us - which looks likely.

True, that's the biggest disaster of them all

I forgot about Jamie Shackleton, so that's 18 senior players, oh, but yeah I forgot he's injured. So make that a third of the 18 senior players injured.

[DDB220]

The stadium expansion is sensible economics for any club with a large enough fan base to justify it. We will only get so far without the additional income a big stadium generates from advertising, ticket sales and events. We will never be a top 6 side without expansion. We may have the odd good year but we would struggle to sustain that. Whether the timing to expand is right depends on whether you believe we need to be successful to fill it or play entertaining football. I would go with the latter.
This club has come a long way under Radz in a short space of time. Some people need to get a sense of perspective - the squad we were promoted with cannot be changed Carte blanche within the space of a season and a half. Where does the money come from to buy all these quality players so many are saying we should be going out and buying.
Citeh needed 4 seasons to challenge for the title when the sheikh fully took over and they had a blank cheque book. They were already an established Premiership team as well.

[CHAPELALLMAN]

True, that's the biggest disaster of them all

I forgot about Jamie Shackleton, so that's 18 senior players, oh, but yeah I forgot he's injured. So make that a third of the 18 senior players injured.

i presume that we would have to just try to sell him if we are forced to pay the transfer fee ? I can't see him being worth more than 3 or 4m though considering what has happened to him since we signed him.

[White Riot]

We have a major issue with spending wisely what funds are available though....Did you say that you want Victor Orta ?

We could give Victor a sponsored piggy-back up to Newcastle, with JKA, Costa, Kiko, Rodrigo and Roberts taking turns. That way it saves Newcastle time money and effort in not having to recruit a DOF and a squadron of turkeys

[CHAPELALLMAN]

The stadium expansion is sensible economics for any club with a large enough fan base to justify it. We will only get so far without the additional income a big stadium generates from advertising, ticket sales and events. We will never be a top 6 side without expansion. We may have the odd good year but we would struggle to sustain that. Whether the timing to expand is right depends on whether you believe we need to be successful to fill it or play entertaining football. I would go with the latter.
This club has come a long way under Radz in a short space of time. Some people need to get a sense of perspective - the squad we were promoted with cannot be changed Carte blanche within the space of a season and a half. Where does the money come from to buy all these quality players so many are saying we should be going out and buying.
Citeh needed 4 seasons to challenge for the title when the sheikh fully took over and they had a blank cheque book. They were already an established Premiership team as well.

It's more a case surely of spending what funds are available wisely ? Rodrigo was never worth £27m, plus his huge wages. Costa was never worth £15m. James was never worth £25m. JKA most definitely is not worth £16 or £17m if we have to pay for him given the obligation to buy clause in the loan contract...Firpo has been out injured for most of the season and therefore has hardly been value for money so far at £12.5m.

And then most of the last 6 or 7 signings have had long-term injury issues.

[White Riot]

i presume that we would have to just try to sell him if we are forced to pay the transfer fee ? I can't see him being worth more than 3 or 4m though considering what has happened to him since we signed him.

I would snap your hand off for 4 million

Pesetas maybe

[CHAPELALLMAN]

I would snap your hand off for 4 million

Pesetas maybe

I meant Monopoly money...

[White Riot]

I meant Monopoly money...

That's it

[DDB220]

The other players losing possession didn't amount to the opposition scoring though did it !!!
Even his Argie step-dad was furious at losing it where he did, although I fully expect him to be CF next game instead of DJ.

Really ????? The basis for justification is he was the only player who lost it which resulted in a goal. It is Pure chance and there was a few variables after he lost the ball that played a more significant role.
I am not a Roberts lover - as a player he has flashes of promise but lacks one of the most important traits necessary to be a good player at this level - consistency. He hasn’t really progressed this season and I am not in the slightest way happy that he appears to be the default sub currently. Bielsa’s comments post game for the justification of James for Roberts are a head scratcher - even though I knew it was going to happen, simply because he does it time after time after time.

[DDB220]

It's more a case surely of spending what funds are available wisely ? Rodrigo was never worth £27m, plus his huge wages. Costa was never worth £15m. James was never worth £25m. JKA most definitely is not worth £16 or £17m if we have to pay for him given the obligation to buy clause in the loan contract...Firpo has been out injured for most of the season and therefore has hardly been value for money so far at £12.5m.

And then most of the last 6 or 7 signings have had long-term injury issues.

I agree we have made some poor signings. But that is a reality of the game which every club suffers from. We play a unique style of football, not every player can adjust to the demands even if all the stats and homework before suggests they will.
Rodrigo is a very talented player, but he struggles in this system. He was a statement signing by the club which has not worked out. Dan James and Firpo have not set the world on fire and may also turn out to be pure value for money but it is too early to say IMO.
Costa, Kiko and JKA were dreadful - but on the other hand Meslier, Raph, Struijk, and a few others have been very positive. The recruitment of young players also looks inspired.
I think Orta has done a good job overall. It cannot be easy finding relatively unproven quality players that match what Bielsa wants. We are not in the market for established talent per se, we do not have the financial muscle.
We are in the 20-30 million market and it is a market containing many over inflated players. Look at Everton - now that is a recruitment disaster.

[CHAPELALLMAN]

I agree we have made some poor signings. But that is a reality of the game which every club suffers from. We play a unique style of football, not every player can adjust to the demands even if all the stats and homework before suggests they will.
Rodrigo is a very talented player, but he struggles in this system. He was a statement signing by the club which has not worked out. Dan James and Firpo have not set the world on fire and may also turn out to be pure value for money but it is too early to say IMO.
Costa, Kiko and JKA were dreadful - but on the other hand Meslier, Raph, Struijk, and a few others have been very positive. The recruitment of young players also looks inspired.
I think Orta has done a good job overall. It cannot be easy finding relatively unproven quality players that match what Bielsa wants. We are not in the market for established talent per se, we do not have the financial muscle.
We are in the 20-30 million market and it is a market containing many over inflated players. Look at Everton - now that is a recruitment disaster.

Good points DDB220. I think my conclusion would be that the recruitment for the U23s has been a lot better than for the senior squad.

I do think that the French and Scandinavian leagues would have been a better bet than La Liga, however maybe Victor Orta likes the prestige of dealing with the big Spanish clubs ? To give an example, at one point we were in the running for Haaland.

[Bongo1874]

The stadium expansion is sensible economics for any club with a large enough fan base to justify it. We will only get so far without the additional income a big stadium generates from advertising, ticket sales and events. We will never be a top 6 side without expansion. We may have the odd good year but we would struggle to sustain that. Whether the timing to expand is right depends on whether you believe we need to be successful to fill it or play entertaining football. I would go with the latter.
This club has come a long way under Radz in a short space of time. Some people need to get a sense of perspective - the squad we were promoted with cannot be changed Carte blanche within the space of a season and a half. Where does the money come from to buy all these quality players so many are saying we should be going out and buying.
Citeh needed 4 seasons to challenge for the title when the sheikh fully took over and they had a blank cheque book. They were already an established Premiership team as well.

Great Post .

[Bongo1874]

I agree we have made some poor signings. But that is a reality of the game which every club suffers from. We play a unique style of football, not every player can adjust to the demands even if all the stats and homework before suggests they will.
Rodrigo is a very talented player, but he struggles in this system. He was a statement signing by the club which has not worked out. Dan James and Firpo have not set the world on fire and may also turn out to be pure value for money but it is too early to say IMO.
Costa, Kiko and JKA were dreadful - but on the other hand Meslier, Raph, Struijk, and a few others have been very positive. The recruitment of young players also looks inspired.
I think Orta has done a good job overall. It cannot be easy finding relatively unproven quality players that match what Bielsa wants. We are not in the market for established talent per se, we do not have the financial muscle.
We are in the 20-30 million market and it is a market containing many over inflated players. Look at Everton - now that is a recruitment disaster.

You don't have that financial muscle yet, but given time you can achieve that.

Raph value has went up, so has Phillips.

You have great assets.

I told anyone that would listen that get Bamford back fit he will score goals 1st game back Goal!! Unfortunately gets himself injured during goal celebration.

But you guys are a good side punching above it's weight currently, financial wise I think you pay the second lowest wage in the Premier League?

Finished 9th last season and I guarantee if you hadn't had so many injuries you would off finished close to that this season.

[Cjay]

The stadium expansion is sensible economics for any club with a large enough fan base to justify it. We will only get so far without the additional income a big stadium generates from advertising, ticket sales and events. We will never be a top 6 side without expansion. We may have the odd good year but we would struggle to sustain that. Whether the timing to expand is right depends on whether you believe we need to be successful to fill it or play entertaining football. I would go with the latter.
This club has come a long way under Radz in a short space of time. Some people need to get a sense of perspective - the squad we were promoted with cannot be changed Carte blanche within the space of a season and a half. Where does the money come from to buy all these quality players so many are saying we should be going out and buying.
Citeh needed 4 seasons to challenge for the title when the sheikh fully took over and they had a blank cheque book. They were already an established Premiership team as well.

Fair enough mate decent post.

I do question the bit about squad though.

A few of us were adamant that major surgery needed to start last summer, it didn't and imo we are paying for it with the injuries and lacklustre season.

If you compare us to teams like Wolves and Villa who are both relatively newly promoted like us then our squad is behind them vastly.

We have no depth and a distinct lack of quality.

Crucially though we are still far far to reliant on our Championship squad, a firmly believe we are very sentimental in that respect and it is a problem.

By season 3 Villa and Wolves had only 3 or 4 of their Championship squad in their matchday 18, they had almost entirely phased them out.

For us it's 12 of our most used 18 that were part of our promotion squad.

So to get anywhere near the level of evolution Wolves or Villa have managed in season 3 we would need to effectively change almost an entire starting 11.

You cant do that in 1 summer but it clearly is possible to have almost entirely moved on by season 3.

Had we done as many of us suggested last summer and started the process and done maybe 4 or 5 last summer then this would be much easier

One of my massive concerns is that I wonder if this inability or unwillingness to move away from the past will hinder us going forward? We have an ageing match day 18 with very few valuable assets.

As for where does the money come from though you sell lesser players to fund it. You sell the Roberts, the Coopers the Costas, the Aylings, the Shacks.

You let players like Klich go you don't force him to stay as we apparently did.

You use all these contacts Radz has (remember what he said, when we get promoted then I play). Where are all these contacts then?

You have to move on which is something some of our fans and seemingly our board and manager are very hesitant to do.

They use the u23s as an excuse even though Bielsa has publicly admitted he would barely use them if he could. And Bielsa says he only wants players better than we have, if we can't find better players then we have then we need to totally revamp out recruitment team because its universally accepted in the footballing world we have one of the least talented squad in the league.

[1964white]

Well folks, what a frustrating day that was
First half we played well, we often got round the back of the Newcastle defence, however we chose the wrong option so many times, also when the ball was delivered in the box there was no natural predator to take advantage of ourdominance.

Second half we were far too predictable, sloppy & never looked like scoring even if we played all night. The writing was on the wall, we would create our own downfall with three errors that led to Newcastle's goal.

Questions to be asked :

Why did we change a winning team?
Understandably, Llorente would return.
Why drop Hjelde who has played well twice against a top strike-force in Bowen & Antonio.
Without Forshaw & Dallas in midfield, we were far too open in the middle of the park.
Should Dallas have played alongside Klich & Koch?
Why sub Klich? who I thought held us together in midfield, no wonder he kicked the water bottles after being subbed
Predictably came into play, sadly called it right as Tyler was sent on when we needed a goalscorer on the park?
Why send Joe on as soon as we go one down, unfair expecting Joe to produce the goods with only ten minutes to go.

Concerns

Teams disrupting our games, players rotating going down like ninepins wasting time.
Toothless up top.
Why did we only make Dubravka worked once in the whole 90 minutes?
So many of our goals conceded are down to a cluster of errors.
The writing was on the wall, predictable as ever!
Newcastle have won only one game all season, we have gifted them five points.
Their new signings or Saint Maximan didn't have a massive impact on the game, but still collected the three points.

You never really know how a Bielsa side is going to perform, we could quite easily go on & win our next two games at Villa Park & Goodison Park.

Still think our Premier League position is safe because the teams below us are far worse imo!

[DDB220]

The biggest concern for me is that Bielsa’s substitute decision making involves little guess work.

This was an ideal game to see what jiffy could do when we are on top and creating chances, rather than sending him on with a few mins to play in the hope he can fashion something miraculous against 11 men camped in their box. If the reasoning not to play him is developmental can someone explain how sending him on with ten minutes left, a goal down with a crowd placing all their expectation on his young shoulders to create a miracle is somehow better management of a young player. It is truly bewildering.

[DDB220]

Joffy - damn auto spelling corrector strikes again.

[CHAPELALLMAN]

We could give Victor a sponsored piggy-back up to Newcastle, with JKA, Costa, Kiko, Rodrigo and Roberts taking turns. That way it saves Newcastle time money and effort in not having to recruit a DOF and a squadron of turkeys

[Boo Radley]

Well folks, what a frustrating day that was
First half we played well, we often got round the back of the Newcastle defence, however we chose the wrong option so many times, also when the ball was delivered in the box there was no natural predator to take advantage of ourdominance.

Second half we were far too predictable, sloppy & never looked like scoring even if we played all night. The writing was on the wall, we would create our own downfall with three errors that led to Newcastle's goal.

Questions to be asked :

Why did we change a winning team?
Understandably, Llorente would return.
Why drop Hjelde who has played well twice against a top strike-force in Bowen & Antonio.
Without Forshaw & Dallas in midfield, we were far too open in the middle of the park.
Should Dallas have played alongside Klich & Koch?
Why sub Klich? who I thought held us together in midfield, no wonder he kicked the water bottles after being subbed
Predictably came into play, sadly called it right as Tyler was sent on when we needed a goalscorer on the park?
Why send Joe on as soon as we go one down, unfair expecting Joe to produce the goods with only ten minutes to go.

Concerns

Teams disrupting our games, players rotating going down like ninepins wasting time.
Toothless up top.
Why did we only make Dubravka worked once in the whole 90 minutes?
So many of our goals conceded are down to a cluster of errors.
The writing was on the wall, predictable as ever!
Newcastle have won only one game all season, we have gifted them five points.
Their new signings or Saint Maximan didn't have a massive impact on the game, but still collected the three points.

You never really know how a Bielsa side is going to perform, we could quite easily go on & win our next two games at Villa Park & Goodison Park.

Still think our Premier League position is safe because the teams below us are far worse imo!

That sums it up for me 64.

If we played until 5pm on Sunday we weren’t going to score with the team we had on up to the 80th minute. We never got even a clear look at goal. We expect a good winger to just become a 9 for the day. We leave a young player that we know can attack like no one else we have on the bench and just give him 10 minutes to save a point - totally unfair.

We had literally broken three of their players with the pace of the game and another had to limp around just to keep it at 11 aside, and yet we can’t carve one clear chance. It was the complete opposite to last week’s effort. Not keeping Hjelde at left back was a key error, followed closely by not playing the one striker we had fit today, even as an early sub. The hole we have in the centre of the park is just silly now that Forshaw is missing.

This was a cavalier throwing away of three points against a very poor side. I’d say that Eddie Howe cannot believe he has 3 points tonight after that.

We need an experienced striker and a central midfielder to be signed urgently. We proved today again how badly they are needed. There is a very high stakes gamble going on in the club at the moment - I pray that it pays off, but the odds are lengthening on that with each such performance.