Aston Villa Thread

[Chilli D]

Let's hope the team that struggles against teams near the bottom turns up.
A goal would be nice, we haven't scored for three games.

[Scoobychief]

coutinho will probably destroy us again

[Cjay]

For a good cause but still find this video a bit weird

Not sure how I'd feel if he was our manager

[mentalcase]

He'll be liverpool next manager when classless klopp goes.

[William]

Just looking at Villa.

14 points since the new year and 4 of them were against us. A mix of tough and easyish games to come

£116M spent this season on transfers plus Countinho loan fees, so all the Grealish money spent.

And yet they are sitting in 15th 2 points ahead of us with a game in hand.

I just wonder if they are any better off than under Smith and also how much investment does it take to get anywhere in this league?

[Cjay]

Just looking at Villa.

14 points since the new year and 4 of them were against us. A mix of tough and easyish games to come

£116M spent this season on transfers plus Countinho loan fees, so all the Grealish money spent.

And yet they are sitting in 15th 2 points ahead of us with a game in hand.

I just wonder if they are any better off than under Smith and also how much investment does it take to get anywhere in this league?

They will spend massively again this summer anyway, they have very ambitious owners.

Gerrard was a mistake imo, as you mention, would Smith have done any worse?

Not sure the recruitment has been that good though, lots spent but a hint of the Everton with them.

If they can get in a better coach though and spend the cash more wisely then they will be a top 6 contender far far sooner than we will, extremely ambitious owners unlike our venture capitalists.

That's the only difference between the two of us though, money and genuine ambition.

Performances haven't been that different.on the pitch.

[The Subhuman]

Just looking at Villa.

14 points since the new year and 4 of them were against us. A mix of tough and easyish games to come

£116M spent this season on transfers plus Countinho loan fees, so all the Grealish money spent.

And yet they are sitting in 15th 2 points ahead of us with a game in hand.

I just wonder if they are any better off than under Smith and also how much investment does it take to get anywhere in this league?

To catch up with the top 4/5 you probably need to spend 2-3 hundred mill this off season assuming you can tempt that kind of quality to arrive.. This has been a 2 division division for a few years now... Top 6 and the rest, there's very little between 7th and 17th for me

Taking the top 6 out of the league then working out a league table could be interesting

[William]

To catch up with the top 4/5 you probably need to spend 2-3 hundred mill this off season assuming you can tempt that kind of quality to arrive.. This has been a 2 division division for a few years now... Top 6 and the rest, there's very little between 7th and 17th for me

Taking the top 6 out of the league then working out a league table could be interesting

I remember the Wolves chairman asking what the point was of spending 2 to 300M just to get a up a couple of extra places in the league. He had got to the point where he didn't see any point.

I suppose there is a glass ceiling for those outside the top 6 and the rest....

So I suppose the logic is to only invest what you think is needed...I wonder for much Newcastle will have to throw at that ceiling to break through.

[William]

If they can get in a better coach though and spend the cash more wisely then they will be a top 6 contender far far sooner than we will, extremely ambitious owners unlike our venture capitalists.

I suppose time will tell regarding future investment in Leeds, Radz doesn't have the financial clout that is for sure.
My hope is Peter Lowy, he is a fan of the club and might be the one to take us away from the Burnley model towards something a bit more ambitious.

[Cjay]

I suppose time will tell regarding future investment in Leeds, Radz doesn't have the financial clout that is for sure.
My hope is Peter Lowy, he is a fan of the club and might be the one to take us away from the Burnley model towards something a bit more ambitious.

We can hope I suppose but I have done some reading on the Lowy family and I think it's highly unlikely that Peter is going to fund anything substantial.

They are famously tight by all accounts.

Besides anyone who invests through a venture capital fund isn't in it to splash the cash.

So I think it's unlikely Lowy is the benefactor we hoped originally.

Just have to accept we have owners with different levels of ambition to Villa.

[1964white]

They are famously tight by all accounts.

Behaving typically like Yorkshire folk

[BGwhite]

Grenade approaching !!

Sent from my moto g(9) plus using Tapatalk

[1964white]

Grenade approaching !!

Sent from my moto g(9) plus using Tapatalk

I should know as I'm a Yorkie, you could say I'm careful with my dosh

[The Subhuman]

I remember the Wolves chairman asking what the point was of spending 2 to 300M just to get a up a couple of extra places in the league. He had got to the point where he didn't see any point.

I suppose there is a glass ceiling for those outside the top 6 and the rest....

So I suppose the logic is to only invest what you think is needed...I wonder for much Newcastle will have to throw at that ceiling to break through.

If you're trying to attract top talent to a club not playing in Europe you're gonna have to play a decent premium in terms of salary... We will never attract the top talent if there's a team in Europe competing. Best we can hope for is hitting on 15-30M talent that could go either way. For that you're not getting guaranteed quality

OR

Build through the youth and we've (Orta) done outstanding work there. Gelhardt, Summerville, Fernandez, Hjelde, Bate, Miller, Greenwood, Cresswell and Kenneh could all be 50 plus million pound talent a couple of years from now. They all have the talent... Caprile and Klaesson could also play in the prem and I'm forgetting Bogusz

Look at White, MB made him a 50M player. Now I'm not sure how much Marsch will invest in our youth set up. It was very important to Marcelo but we'll have to see how important it is to JM. He may just want to buy his team.

[1964white]

If you're trying to attract top talent to a club not playing in Europe you're gonna have to play a decent premium in terms of salary... We will never attract the top talent if there's a team in Europe competing. Best we can hope for is hitting on 15-30M talent that could go either way. For that you're not getting guaranteed quality

OR

Build through the youth and we've (Orta) done outstanding work there. Gelhardt, Summerville, Fernandez, Hjelde, Bate, Miller, Cresswell and Kenneh could all be 50 plus million pound talent a couple of years from now. They all have the talent... Caprile and Klaesson could also play in the prem and I'm forgetting Bogusz

Look at White, MB made him a 50M player. Now I'm not sure how much Marsch will invest in our youth set up. It was very important to Marcelo but we'll have to see how important it is to JM. He may just want to buy his team.

None of those names have cemented a permanent place in the first team yet!

Joe is the jewel in the crown.

[The Subhuman]

None of those names have cemented a permanent place in the first team yet!

Joe is the jewel in the crown.

I think MB would have unleashed them next season, but the talent is certainly there.. They've all performed to a high standard when playing in the first team

[Cjay]

I think MB would have unleashed them next season, but the talent is certainly there.. They've all performed to a high standard when playing in the first team

Based on what?

Nobody from the u23s became a first team regular under Bielsa apart from Clarke.

Struijk was 4th choice, Shacks is Lord knows where.

Bielsa didn't trust the u23s as he himself said (I would always prefer to use senior players) and nothing about his history here suggested a dramatic change of heart was coming

I actually think that Bielsa's lack of faith in youth was a factor in his sacking.

[mentalcase]

Based on what?

Nobody from the u23s became a first team regular under Bielsa apart from Clarke.

Struijk was 4th choice, Shacks is Lord knows where.

Bielsa didn't trust the u23s as he himself said (I would always prefer to use senior players) and nothing about his history here suggested a dramatic change of heart was coming

I actually think that Bielsa's lack of faith in youth was a factor in his sacking.

Also sticking by that waster roberts, robbing better players in the U23's a place, therefore, setting us back, but hey, lets not let the truth get in the way of a ficticious load of bollocks.

[William]

Based on what?

Nobody from the u23s became a first team regular under Bielsa apart from Clarke.

Struijk was 4th choice, Shacks is Lord knows where.

Bielsa didn't trust the u23s as he himself said (I would always prefer to use senior players) and nothing about his history here suggested a dramatic change of heart was coming

I actually think that Bielsa's lack of faith in youth was a factor in his sacking.

I'm what way? Radz and Orta thinking he was holding them back?

I find it interesting that the best U23 Gelhardt current isn't being started either. What does Jesse see?

The rest aren't up to the level of our seniors yet.
Which is why they werent starting ahead of them even when it did require a position reshuffle.

Good U23s stand head and shoulders above the rest in their league. Only Geldhart and Greenwood were doing that.

Roberts is imo our weakest player and let's recall he is just turned 23.

Jesse's challenge will be which U23s can be integrated next season because he can't play them all.

Ironically their best chance of playing first team footy is if we relegate.

[Cjay]

I'm what way? Radz and Orta thinking he was holding them back?

I find it interesting that the best U23 Gelhardt current isn't being started either. What does Jesse see?

The rest aren't up to the level of our seniors yet.
Which is why they werent starting ahead of them even when it did require a position reshuffle.

Good U23s stand head and shoulders above the rest in their league. Only Geldhart and Greenwood were doing that.

Roberts is imo our weakest player and let's recall he is just turned 23.

Jesse's challenge will be which U23s can be integrated next season because he can't play them all.

Ironically their best chance of playing first team footy is if we relegate.

Yeah sort of, I don't think Bielsa was developing them as fast as the club wanted or using them as the club wanted.

He openly said he would always prefer to use senior players and then dropped u23s sometimes for weeks after they had done well for the first team (Cresswell and Gelhardt spring to mind). Gelhardt starts vs Spurs, does fine, Bielsa drops him for the next 3 games. Cresswell starts vs West Ham and does well, Bielsa barely uses him again.

The message that sent out can't have gone down well at board level when we had Kinnear preaching the pathway to the media.

It clearly didn't go down well with the u23s as many wanted to leave (as Bielsa said) including Drameh and Summerville who were in theory two of the closest players to first team football (again that can't have sent a great message to the board or the rest of the u23s).

Phil Hay did an article basically saying the board were shocked at Bielsa's use or lack of use of Lewis Bate given how highly rated they thought he was and how thin our midfield options are.

It's likely to attract players like Bate and Gelhardt and Summerville we had to make promises first team football wise, was Bielsa sticking to what Orta was telling them? I doubt it.

Maybe Bielsa was right maybe not, but I can't see his use of the u23s going down well with a board thay even used this u23 pathway as an excuse for a crap January when we then had Bielsa come out soon after and basically admit that any u23 selection would always be a last resort.

It's noticeable that under Marsch it's a much more traditional set up. U23s and First team totally separate aside from the top u23s who are now deemed first team players and are on first team training schedules.

Marsch won't dictate to the u23 boss regarding selection.

He isnt going to pillage the u23s to use in first team training. Bielsa would take u23s he was never going to use to help in first team training and it meant they missed matches for the u23s which impacted the u23s league position and the development of the u23s he took but never used (players need matches to develop).

The u23s will be loaned out to gain first team experience.

In fairness to Marsch Gelhardt has suffered with injuries since he arrived I believe and has barely trained.

I hope to see more of Gelhardt, Cresswell and Summerville this season. I an hopeful Summerville may stay now whereas I don't think he would under Bielsa.

Can't use them all as you say but at the same time we should be using them more than most clubs because we run with a ridiculously small squad and the justification is the select few u23s are basically first teamers.

Bielsa never treated the u23s as first teamers even saying in the press how he would always use senior players over youth (this was in the Roberts vs Gelhardt argument) which seemed a contradiction given these select u23s were meant effectively to be first teamers.

Marsch has now publicly said he considers them first team players (specifically Cresswell he said the other day).

It's a different setup now.

I have faith that Marsch will use the best u23s more as he did just that at Salzburg. They specialise in bringing through youth players and I reckon that is a large part of why he got the job.

The club preached a pathway for the u23s (and Bielsa did give a chance tbf but it was always a last resort and as soon as he could he dropped them). Marsch I suspect is more likely to follow the club's and Orta's mantra and ideals.