Competing in the Premier League...

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CHAPELALLMAN
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Competing in the Premier League...

Post by CHAPELALLMAN » Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:15 am

This topic may be really tempting fate, but hey ho let's give it a try.

Assuming we do go on from here and reach the promised land this season, what changes to the squad do we need to look at so as to give us a fighting chance of survival, or - better still - to go on and prosper in the Premier League ?

How is is that Sheffield United have been able to have such an outstanding first season back in the top tier whereas Norwich ( who after all finished ahead of them last year ) have completely floundered, and are now certs to come straight back down? Ok, the Blades have tailed off a bit recently, but back in August last year people I spoke to were 100 % sure that they would come straight back down.

Clearly we need far more of a cutting edge up front, and more quality in the final third. We also need to remember that Pablo is 35 - we can't rely on him forever.

I am concerned about the club being committed to purchasing Costa and Augustin for a combined total of something like 33m if we can't get out of the Augustin deal. If neither player performs well in the Premier League then the club would start off life in the top division with a huge financial millstone around its neck.

I did a recent post on here stating why I don't believe that Orta's signings have not been up to scratch on the whole. Surely some astute signings would make all the difference in terms of us breaking into the top 10 of the Premier League? IMO we have got away with a series of duff loan and permanent signings in the championship largely thanks to Bielsa making the most of what he has been given, and due to his improvement of the players who were already at the club, however IMO we need to improve on this track record if we go up.

Raiding Norwich for Pukki and Buendia would be my idea of some astute signings, but presumably we wouldn't have the funds to make these kind of purchases if we fork out a combined 33m for Costa and Augustin ? We've also squandered 11m this year on loans for Nketiah, Augustin and agent fees, which I personally find galling. If we buy White, then that's probably 20m to 25m that we will need to find - and that outlay is not actually strengthening what we have already.

I think that Harrison has done enough to justify us buying him if City only want 8m or so for him. That's much better value than Costa, who to me has been comletely hit and miss this season - IMO he's a bit of a one trick pony. However, if we buy Augustin, Costa, White and Harrison that's an outlay of approximately 60 to 65m and unless Augustin were to suddenly come good next season, we wouldn't have actually improved on the squad that we have at the moment !
Last edited by CHAPELALLMAN on Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:56 am, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: Competing in the premiership...

Post by Gandalf » Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:28 am

I may venture an opinion in three weeks, other than your first sentence applies.
Delapsus Resurgam - When I fall I shall rise!

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Re: Competing in the premiership...

Post by 1964white » Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:34 am

Gandalf wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:28 am
I may venture an opinion in three weeks, other than your first sentence applies.
Chicken :) or shall I say 'not counting chickens'

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Re: Competing in the premiership...

Post by Chilli D » Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:35 am

I'm not having this conversation until we're there...sorry.
I made that mistake last season.

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Re: Competing in the premiership...

Post by CHAPELALLMAN » Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:37 am

Gandalf - I don't blame you....

I forgot to mention Meslier who will cost us 5m. So that's an outlay of about 70m in order to keep together the current squad, with the addition of Augustin.

Meslier would be fantastic value - as was made clear by yesterday's performance - so we are on a winner there.

We will be able to offload some players such as Douglas and possibly Bamford, however that's not going to raise a huge amount. I personally don't think that Bamford would be of any use in the Premier League.
Last edited by CHAPELALLMAN on Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Competing in the premiership...

Post by Gandalf » Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:38 am

1964white wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:34 am
Chicken :) or shall I say 'not counting chickens'
The latter - although I will add that Harrison Reed would be a good acquisition whichever division we end up in.
Delapsus Resurgam - When I fall I shall rise!

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Re: Competing in the premiership...

Post by WestgateRun » Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:45 am

Well I hope we don't make it to "The Premiership". That would mean we were playing in the Scottish league, or at Rugby Union :)

If we do make it to the Premier League it might be a struggle for our current squad. Most of all, we need a striker or two. And I'm not sure about the goalkeepers in our squad.
Norwich looked a great team when winning the Championship. They scored 93 goals. But they have been badly exposed in the Premier League.

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Re: Competing in the premiership...

Post by CHAPELALLMAN » Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:51 am

Thanks WestgateRun - a Google search shows this ;

"While the organisation has always been called the 'Premier League', the competition was named the 'Premiership' for sponsorship reasons in 1993. The division initially lacked a sponsor for its first season as the 'FA Premier League', before it became the 'FA Carling Premiership' between 1993 and 2001 "

and

"The league has been renamed four times in 20 years. In 2001 it became the Barclaycard Premiership. In 2004 it became the Barclays Premiership. And in 2007 it became the Barclays Premier League. For most, it's just the English Premier League, or the Premiership. "

Personally speaking, I still think of it as the First Division. Perhaps that's because I have never quite mentally moved on from the 1991/2 season....

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Re: Competing in the Premier League...

Post by BGwhite » Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:31 am

Although we have a half foot in the PL I feel uneasy talking about whether our squad will cut it there for obvious reasons.

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Re: Competing in the Premier League...

Post by John in Louisiana » Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:55 am

BGwhite wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:31 am
Although we have a half foot in the PL I feel uneasy talking about whether our squad will cut it there for obvious reasons.
My thoughts exactly. Half a foot is only 25% of the feet we need. I'll join in when we have nine toes in, minimum. :)

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Re: Competing in the Premier League...

Post by Leeds1000 » Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:30 pm

Costa flatters to deceive still for me. There is still time for him, but if we did fluff it, the £15m price tag becomes a huge albatross. He is the marquee signing and you can't knock AR for lacking ambition. I'm probably sounding a bit harsh but i would send Agustin back he seems crocked. I think we are more like Norwich than Sheff Utd so it would be a struggle imo. We would need another Pablo Hernandez, and 2 top strikers just to start. But yeah lets get there first. :tup:

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Re: Competing in the Premier League...

Post by Cjay » Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:17 pm

Not wanting to tempt fate but IF promoted we would need a lot more individual quality in the Prem.

That bit of extra talent that cant be coached that imo we do lack.

Concerned about Orta plotting our recruitment, he made a total mess of keeping Boro up and his success rate here is poor.

JKA while clearly talented if we have to make him our most expensive signing it is a bit embarrassing.

Big fan of Buendia, (how we let Norwich sign him from our supposed feeder club ive no idea). He is someone id like as a Pablo heir.

We would need a big improvement on instant impact of signings if promoted thats for sure.

Cant have another situation where we have to say "ah yes but he will be better next year".

But having said all that this thread makes me nervous.

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Re: Competing in the Premier League...

Post by Irish Ian » Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:35 pm

Sorry chaps, if you look back to March 2019 these topics started to pop up and we ended up with the Easter Disaster.
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Re: Competing in the Premier League...

Post by CHAPELALLMAN » Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:50 pm

Concerned about Orta plotting our recruitment, he made a total mess of keeping Boro up and his success rate here is poor.

JKA while clearly talented if we have to make him our most expensive signing it is a bit embarrassing.

Big fan of Buendia, (how we let Norwich sign him from our supposed feeder club ive no idea). He is someone id like as a Pablo heir.

We would need a big improvement on instant impact of signings if promoted thats for sure.

Cant have another situation where we have to say "ah yes but he will be better next year".

After doing a quick search and reading some of the comments from Leeds fans when Orta was appointed in May 2017, there was a lot of alarm back then about his previous record at Boro - ' why the hell are we going for him given his record at Boro ? ' etc.

Failing to nail such a talented player as Buendia from a feeder club is a pretty damning indictment of Orta's recruitment ability, but you could also question why we didn't sign Haaland given that seemingly we made an offer for him when he moved to Red Bull Salzburg. I mean he was born in Leeds, his father played for the club, allegedly ' he only talks about Leeds ' and so on. Yet like Buendia and James he slipped through the club's fingers.

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Re: Competing in the Premier League...

Post by CHAPELALLMAN » Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:57 pm

Cjay wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:17 pm
Not wanting to tempt fate but IF promoted we would need a lot more individual quality in the Prem.

That bit of extra talent that cant be coached that imo we do lack.

Concerned about Orta plotting our recruitment, he made a total mess of keeping Boro up and his success rate here is poor.

JKA while clearly talented if we have to make him our most expensive signing it is a bit embarrassing.

Big fan of Buendia, (how we let Norwich sign him from our supposed feeder club ive no idea). He is someone id like as a Pablo heir.

We would need a big improvement on instant impact of signings if promoted thats for sure.

Cant have another situation where we have to say "ah yes but he will be better next year".

But having said all that this thread makes me nervous.
After doing a quick search and reading some of the comments from Leeds fans when Orta was appointed in May 2017, there was a lot of alarm back then about his previous record at Boro - ' why the hell are we going for him given his record at Boro ? ' etc.

Failing to nail such a talented player as Buendia from a feeder club is a pretty damning indictment of Orta's recruitment ability, but you could also question why we didn't sign Haaland given that seemingly we made an offer for him when he moved to Red Bull Salzburg. I mean he was born in Leeds, his father played for the club, allegedly ' he only talks about Leeds ' and so on. Yet like Buendia and James he slipped through the club's fingers.

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Re: Competing in the Premier League...

Post by dezzy » Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:06 pm

The premiership is full of average teams, not as scary as it once was. Bielsa will have us in the top half at least. We will need 5 signings though
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Re: Competing in the Premier League...

Post by dezzy » Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:07 pm

CHAPELALLMAN wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:50 pm
Concerned about Orta plotting our recruitment, he made a total mess of keeping Boro up and his success rate here is poor.

JKA while clearly talented if we have to make him our most expensive signing it is a bit embarrassing.

Big fan of Buendia, (how we let Norwich sign him from our supposed feeder club ive no idea). He is someone id like as a Pablo heir.

We would need a big improvement on instant impact of signings if promoted thats for sure.

Cant have another situation where we have to say "ah yes but he will be better next year".

After doing a quick search and reading some of the comments from Leeds fans when Orta was appointed in May 2017, there was a lot of alarm back then about his previous record at Boro - ' why the hell are we going for him given his record at Boro ? ' etc.

Failing to nail such a talented player as Buendia from a feeder club is a pretty damning indictment of Orta's recruitment ability, but you could also question why we didn't sign Haaland given that seemingly we made an offer for him when he moved to Red Bull Salzburg. I mean he was born in Leeds, his father played for the club, allegedly ' he only talks about Leeds ' and so on. Yet like Buendia and James he slipped through the club's fingers.
Not so concerned about ortas recruitment with a strong manager dictating to him
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Re: Competing in the Premier League...

Post by Byebyegeegee » Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:30 pm

I can understand the reluctance to tempt fate by talking about being in the premier league next season, this is Leeds after all, but after yesterday’s performance (2nd half especially) I’m feeling confident enough to give it a go.

Without going into specifics regarding who we should buy, who we should sell etc, all I can say is that a team of our standing, with a massive national and international following (guessing here but I reckon we are within the top 5 or 6 best supported clubs in the country and I’m not just talking about match day crowds), should be competing with the Liverpools, Man Citys, Arsenals of this world. We should certainly not be satisfied just to be fighting relegation season in season out as the likes of Burnley, Brighton, Bournemouth, Southampton etc have to do. Quite how we would achieve that I don’t know, but we managed it following our last 2 promotions to the top flight.

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Re: Competing in the Premier League...

Post by Cjay » Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:41 pm

CHAPELALLMAN wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:57 pm
After doing a quick search and reading some of the comments from Leeds fans when Orta was appointed in May 2017, there was a lot of alarm back then about his previous record at Boro - ' why the hell are we going for him given his record at Boro ? ' etc.

Failing to nail such a talented player as Buendia from a feeder club is a pretty damning indictment of Orta's recruitment ability, but you could also question why we didn't sign Haaland given that seemingly we made an offer for him when he moved to Red Bull Salzburg. I mean he was born in Leeds, his father played for the club, allegedly ' he only talks about Leeds ' and so on. Yet like Buendia and James he slipped through the club's fingers.
Dont think we can really blame Orta for Haaland tbf.

Red Bull Salzberg have an extremely wealthy backer and a network for players to get to a higher league quickly if they progress well (as Haaland did and went to Leipzig).

We hadnt the finance or pathway that Red Bull have.

Similarly financially we are limited, always trying to get the deals done cheaply as we can (until this season to be fair).

I do find the way we close deals concerning.

We seem to have a tunnel view regarding recruitment.

Dan James was our target with no backup, we dont have contingencies. Even JKA if you read what Orta said he thought in mid December we could get Adams and it only dawned on him a full month later in mid January we couldnt.

We seem to focus on 1 player then either have no backup or end up scrabbling around.

Bielsa wanted Harry Wilson during his 1st season but we wouldn't pay the loan fee.

We seem to go from one extreme of real cheapness, to throwing money around willy nilly like Nketiah, JKA etc.

I think if promoted Orta does deserve some credit though.

And hopefully Radz makes good on his boasts of contacts and name drops like Mendes, Raiola and QSI.

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Re: Competing in the premiership...

Post by Ratscoot » Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:06 pm

CHAPELALLMAN wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:37 am

We will be able to offload some players such as Douglas and possibly Bamford, however that's not going to raise a huge amount. I personally don't think that Bamford would be of any use in the Premier League.
I’ll start the bidding at

Douglas a £5 not sure what I could use him for as he’d be off sick most of the time

Bambi £3 as he could teach my granddaughter how to be posh and a proper Princess plus I can remind him how many times he missed the goal and pissed me off
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