The next generation

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Muppet the Cat
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Re: The next generation

Post by Muppet the Cat »

faaip wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 1:36 pm Code just to make me feel better about this forum atm
I think I’ve deciphered it now 🕵🏻‍♂️
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Re: The next generation

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:tup:
"Never debate an idiot, they'll only drag you down to their level and they have the advantage of experience"
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Re: The next generation

Post by Azkal »

Muppet the Cat wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 1:57 pm I think I’ve deciphered it now 🕵🏻‍♂️
Two or more lemon police woman's murdered ex lovers......
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Re: The next generation

Post by weasel »

It is interesting how the standard of the matches being played at U23 is derided yet supposedly the quality of our youngsters is so amazing that they should be playing more despite struggling in the U23 league.

I think some of what Kinnear says gets twisted. For me it reads that we only want to sign players of a really high standard, such as Aaronson might be, rather than simply signing average players who then make it even harder for the youngsters to get minutes.

Basically he wants to improve the quality of the first team starting XI rather than bulk the squad out. It is a very sensible approach - i.e. if we have £20m to spend spend it on 1 player to upgrade the first team starting XI rather than buy 4 players at £5m each who make us a bit stronger when we have injuries but don't improve the first team when everyone is available.
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Re: The next generation

Post by BGwhite »

SG90 wrote:For the record, I'm all in favour of playing youngsters and I'd rather we gave them a chance that constantly spending money. My point is that WE DON'T play them, regardless of signings. Is Bielsa afraid they might be better than some of his favourites perhaps?
Yep ! Stinks of personal pride !

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Re: The next generation

Post by Cjay »

weasel wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:00 pm It is interesting how the standard of the matches being played at U23 is derided yet supposedly the quality of our youngsters is so amazing that they should be playing more despite struggling in the U23 league.

I think some of what Kinnear says gets twisted. For me it reads that we only want to sign players of a really high standard, such as Aaronson might be, rather than simply signing average players who then make it even harder for the youngsters to get minutes.

Basically he wants to improve the quality of the first team starting XI rather than bulk the squad out. It is a very sensible approach - i.e. if we have £20m to spend spend it on 1 player to upgrade the first team starting XI rather than buy 4 players at £5m each who make us a bit stronger when we have injuries but don't improve the first team when everyone is available.
I firmly believe that the majority of our u23s are overrated but the club say they are this wonderful group who would cost 8 figure sums to improve on yet the boss only.plays them as a last resort.

The idea that it would cost 8 figure sums to improve on our u23s is nonsense. You look at players like Saka, Greenwood, Rashford, Foden, Livramento, Martinelli, Smith-Rowe, Ait-Nouri, Carney Chukwuemeka, Jacob Ramsey, McNeil, Lamptey, Tyrick Mitchell, Luke Thomas, could go on and on.

These are a similar age and younger than most of our u23s and they are established Premiership players. Clearly they did enough to prove they were good enough to be more than last resorts.

So either Bielsa is wrong and they aren't good enough and therefore they shouldn't be relied upon by the first team at all and we should have made signings. In which case both he and the board are responsible.

Or he is right and they aren't ready in which case the board are wrong and they are doing Bielsa a disservice by forcing him to use unready players as part of his miniscule squad.

"Many January options requiring an eight-figure investment would not be a material improvement on the current performances of emerging players such as Bate, Hjelde and Gelhardt".

Those are Angus words.

Such impressive performances that Bielsa dropped Bate and Hjelde and Gelhardt immediately after and has consistently called for reinforcement in January?

As I said what the board say about our u23s doesn't match up with Bielsa and how he treats them.

So somebody is wrong?

Either Bielsa is wrong and he should be using the u23s more rather than only when he has to and we don't need first team signings.

Or the board are wrong, the u23s aren't ready to he used on a consistent basis and we do need signings.

The Two views don't measure up.

They can't both be amazing and worth millions of pounds as Kinnear seems to think and therefore very difficult to improve on for less than £10mil whilst simultaneously being only good enough as absolute last resorts and dropped as soon as enough square pegs return to make that possible.

Realise I am ranting but it really annoyed me and tbh I don't think I misunderstood.
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Re: The next generation

Post by William »

BGwhite wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:21 pm Yep ! Stinks of personal pride !

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Hi Mate.

So because you do not understand the reason for his thinking you have to blame it on a negative personal quality...

Bielsa has come across as the most humble man these last almost four years.

Deflects the praise.
Accepts the criticism even when it is not due.
Never blames anyone.
Answers every question by the press

That doesn't make him perfect either but we do have a gem on our hands..


Re the thread topic.


Next generation.

I recall the press heaping praise on Bielsa in his first season, we had won 7 on the trot, had a long way to go but were finding that groove that a well settled side finds. Bielsa deflected the praise to Orta. They are his players he said. And truth be told most of them were. If I recall even though Bamford had signed he was still in Bielsas mind not HIS.

But these young ones are different.

Joffy
Meslier
Cresswell
Bate
McKinstry
Struijk
Hjelde
Jimmy
Greenwood


These lads are his players, and we can be sure that some of them will make it either at Leeds or elsewhere in the Prem
These are his projects and just because he plays them to fill the gaps doesn't mean that they are ready now for first team footie, but why bring in others, give them long contracts and PL wages only to have them get in the way of their development.

For what?

A couple of Prem League places.


Perhaps Bielsa has a succession plan.
Ignore Kinnear he is a windbag.

Maybe good at his other stuff but his PR approach aint good.


Hello everyone.

Long time lurker first time poster


Btw as for Bielsa having favourites and being stubborn.
Two of the ones he had sign, Poveda and Costa.
They were not working for us and he he moved them on.

We had better players to use and he acted.

Doesnt mean he gets everything right but he gets a lot right
Marsch OUT

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Marcelo Bielsa. The light that will never go out.
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Re: The next generation

Post by Muppet the Cat »

Very good first post, William and welcome to MOT 👍
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Re: The next generation

Post by 1964white »

weasel wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:00 pm It is interesting how the standard of the matches being played at U23 is derided yet supposedly the quality of our youngsters is so amazing that they should be playing more despite struggling in the U23 league.
Gelhardt & Hjelde are ready.
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Re: The next generation

Post by 1964white »

William wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:07 pm Hello everyone.

Long time lurker first time poster
Welcome to MOT, William :tup:
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Re: The next generation

Post by Cjay »

Our u23s lost 4-0 to bottom placed (pre match) Blackburn yesterday.

Their 1st team was playing that day so this was there proper u23s.

7 of our starters yesterday were on our bench vs Newcastle so are presumably our 1st team cover.

Our u18s have lost there last 3 by an aggregate of 12-1 and are 10th out of 14.

Our u23s are bottom 3.

Perhaps Mr Kinnear may wish to rethink his wonderful youth team comments?

How the club think we can go to the end of the season relying on a bottom 3 youth team to backup a bottom 6 first team beggars belief.
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Re: The next generation

Post by 1964white »

Relegation looming, the U23's are more frustrating than our first team set-up........or wait a minute they are part of our first team.

What a mess!
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Re: The next generation

Post by hector »

the problem is......... the best and core of the u23's are not playing... at all...... they spend their time warming the bench for the 1st team, so miss out on games all the time. The u23's are then suffering because they have to play u18's, and so the u18's are suffering because their best players are warming the bench for the u23's and so on.....
Song machine is coming down....
And we're gonna have a party Uhuhu
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Re: The next generation

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hector wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 6:18 am the problem is......... the best and core of the u23's are not playing... at all...... they spend their time warming the bench for the 1st team, so miss out on games all the time. The u23's are then suffering because they have to play u18's, and so the u18's are suffering because their best players are warming the bench for the u23's and so on.....
And some of our best u23's have caught the injury bug too!
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Re: The next generation

Post by The Subhuman »

weasel wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:00 pm It is interesting how the standard of the matches being played at U23 is derided yet supposedly the quality of our youngsters is so amazing that they should be playing more despite struggling in the U23 league.

I think some of what Kinnear says gets twisted. For me it reads that we only want to sign players of a really high standard, such as Aaronson might be, rather than simply signing average players who then make it even harder for the youngsters to get minutes.

Basically he wants to improve the quality of the first team starting XI rather than bulk the squad out. It is a very sensible approach - i.e. if we have £20m to spend spend it on 1 player to upgrade the first team starting XI rather than buy 4 players at £5m each who make us a bit stronger when we have injuries but don't improve the first team when everyone is available.
You really have to spend a lot of time scrolling through the doom merchants to find anything of interest... Good post
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Re: The next generation

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hector wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 6:18 am the problem is......... the best and core of the u23's are not playing... at all...... they spend their time warming the bench for the 1st team, so miss out on games all the time. The u23's are then suffering because they have to play u18's, and so the u18's are suffering because their best players are warming the bench for the u23's and so on.....
Spot on Hector
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Re: The next generation

Post by Chilli D »

The only ones from the U23's we know can handle PL football are Gelhardt, Hjelde and Cresswell and to a lesser extent Bate and Summerville but that's because they have been given game time albeit limited and proved their worth.
But as Hector rightly says, they're hardly playing at all because they're warming the first team bench and not being risked for the U23's because they're needed for the first team.
Certainly the decision to play Dallas at LB rather than Hjelde on Saturday emphasises Bielsa’s mindset regarding the U23's.
It's a difficult situation and Cody Drameh has already showed he wasn't happy by choosing to go on loan.
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Re: The next generation

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Chilli D wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:15 am Certainly the decision to play Dallas at LB rather than Hjelde on Saturday emphasises Bielsa’s mindset regarding the U23's.
Poor decision imo, Chilli.

Although, folk on here are not allowed to question certain decisions without being ridiculed.

Everything is rosy at our club & we always learn from our mistakes, don't we :roll:

After saying that, I wouldn't be surprised if we beat Villa or Everton in our next two fixtures.

We'll stay up, however I expect more squeaky bum moments between now & the of the season.
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Re: The next generation

Post by 1964white »

faaip wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:58 am You really have to spend a lot of time scrolling through the doom merchants to find anything of interest... Good post
Untrue Faaip.

You only want to read those who have the same opinion as yourself.

Everybody makes valid points on here whether they are positive or negative, mate
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Re: The next generation

Post by William »

1964white wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:42 am Poor decision imo, Chilli.

Although, folk on here are not allowed to question certain decisions without being ridiculed.

Everything is rosy at our club & we always learn from our mistakes, don't we :roll:

After saying that, I wouldn't be surprised if we beat Villa or Everton in our next two fixtures.

We'll stay up, however I expect more squeaky bum moments between now & the of the season.
Dalllas and Harrison were excellent first half on the left on Saturday though.
Score the couple of goals we looked like getting and all this goes away.

I wonder if playing Heldje out of position alongside Struijk against their forwards would have been a good ploy? Trippier was earmarked as a danger man pre game but Dallas and Harrison kept them quiet.

Also if Cresswell and Heldje were so PL ready I wonder why our U23s ship so many goals many of them straight through the centre of the team.

The question is what to do with three wingers?
Marsch OUT

Football has undergone a process of bielsification; pressing and possessing, passing rather than dribbling, intercepting high up the field rather than making last-ditch tackles, are in vogue.

Marcelo Bielsa. The light that will never go out.
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