Brighton 0-0 Leeds Utd Match Thread

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Carrick Dave
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Re: Brighton v Leeds Utd Match Thread - Raphinha, Rodrigo and Firpo Start

Post by Carrick Dave »

1964white wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 10:02 pm For the first time since we were promoted to the PL I'm unconvinced we are safe this season whereas last season I never considered relegation was on the cards, our performances are very concerning.

What's happened to our :

Pressing game.
Pass & move game.
Scoring goals on the break.
Entertaining the TV audiences.

I'm now living in hope that things will improve.
All four elements, celebrated last year, missing as you say this.

Scary to hear a considered and seasoned supporter so worried. All we can do till January is support the players and management as it stands and hope to see movement in the window.
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Re: Brighton v Leeds Utd Match Thread - Raphinha, Rodrigo and Firpo Start

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mentalcase wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 10:14 pm Fantastic question Dave, the man has done amazing things since he arrived, also some unfathomable, it may be a case of the board are getting as frustrated as the fans, don't forget , this is a results business, and a money making game, if we get relegated he'll get the sack anyway.
It's only Bielsa' methods that have held us back, the players don't seem to understand what is meant of them, in positions they aren't used to, yet he continues to baffle.
We all know it's " Bielsa' way or the highway" We are all, at the moment, well, most of us anyway, still buying in to the Bielsa way, but, for how long will that continue ?
If he walks on his own accord I would think he's a twat for not finishing what he started, but, he seems hell bent on pushing the self destruct button himself for some reason.
When he goes, whenever that is, who would I replace him with !!! At this stage I haven't took stock to think that far ahead, honestly because I'm hoping ( above all hope now ) that he will see the bigger picture, at the moment he continues with his methods of getting us out of the mess we're in but we are sinking deeper in the quick sand.
Today, so many players looked clueless, so many wayward passes, so many mistakes, and not one leader among them all, Raphina looked so pissed off, that don't look good.
Lets hope the next 2 games are significantly better for all concerned, and I am concerned, I've seen the relegations since the late 70's, thought we were too good to go down, the players body language etc, and it looks like I've been here beofre.
Mate, no one has ever suggested that Marcelo has lost the board’s backing, in fact quite the opposite.

The team have been compared to robots, so defined is each individual’s role.

Why do you thing Marcelo is pressing the “self-destruct” button?

I started following Leeds in 1968 and have seen few better managers at our club.
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Re: Brighton v Leeds Utd Match Thread - Raphinha, Rodrigo and Firpo Start

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Carrick Dave wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:29 pm This is based on what exactly? Just curious.
Agree Dave.....Yes, based on what? What makes you think that?
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Re: Brighton 0-0 Leeds Utd Match Thread

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I have time to reflect on the game and I still have the same conclusion.

Why is KP playing CB when he is arguably the best DM in the league with the exception of Kante. CB is probably our strongest area of the team. Lorrente starts at RB where Shackleton had previously been filling in. Why did he not start?
I just cannot understand why the sudden change ? Our biggest issue is up front and he still plays the same way with a 9 playing 10 and a winger playing 9.
Roberts did do well when he came on - however his job is to score when he is through on goal. With the exception of the goal against Southampton he has fluffed his lines every time. He has it in him somewhere but he like a number of other players who are under performing are devoid of confidence.
Let’s hope the return of Bamford and Ayling have the desired impact. To think otherwise is to give in to despair.
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Re: Brighton v Leeds Utd Match Thread - Raphinha, Rodrigo and Firpo Start

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Carrick Dave wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 10:54 pm Mate, no one has ever suggested that Marcelo has lost the board’s backing, in fact quite the opposite.

The team have been compared to robots, so defined is each individual’s role.

Why do you thing Marcelo is pressing the “self-destruct” button?

I started following Leeds in 1968 and have seen few better managers at our club.
68 Rangers at home was my first game, old Gelderd/Kop
I've seen exactly what you have seen old pal, I more than appreciate what MB has done for this club, really I do, but, I'm so frustrated by the mans arrogance, some say it's not arrogance, I do.
We are crying out for changes , we get roberts who proves nothing, we have CF on the bench and we play a LW, the square peg in round hole analogy isn't far from the truth at ER at the moment.
I'll stick bt Bielsa like everyone else for what he's done thus far, but, remember this, you are judged on today, not yesterday, stop living in the past, stop resting on your laurels.
Wilko is a prime example, you remember that, a lot of this team need to move on, not stick with them because of loyalty.
I think he's pressing "the self destruct button" because he don't know a way to get out of this, he won't alter his methods, he won't change his way of thinking, he won't bow to outside pressure, he won't accept criticism from within, don't forget, this is the man who won nothing, nothing at all before he came to ER, this is the man who walked out on other clubs, he;s got an audience now,for what he's achieved, but for how long ???!!!!
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Re: Brighton v Leeds Utd Match Thread - Raphinha, Rodrigo and Firpo Start

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mentalcase wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:47 am 68 Rangers at home was my first game, old Gelderd/Kop
I've seen exactly what you have seen old pal, I more than appreciate what MB has done for this club, really I do, but, I'm so frustrated by the mans arrogance, some say it's not arrogance, I do.
We are crying out for changes , we get roberts who proves nothing, we have CF on the bench and we play a LW, the square peg in round hole analogy isn't far from the truth at ER at the moment.
I'll stick bt Bielsa like everyone else for what he's done thus far, but, remember this, you are judged on today, not yesterday, stop living in the past, stop resting on your laurels.
Wilko is a prime example, you remember that, a lot of this team need to move on, not stick with them because of loyalty.
I think he's pressing "the self destruct button" because he don't know a way to get out of this, he won't alter his methods, he won't change his way of thinking, he won't bow to outside pressure, he won't accept criticism from within, don't forget, this is the man who won nothing, nothing at all before he came to ER, this is the man who walked out on other clubs, he;s got an audience now,for what he's achieved, but for how long ???!!!!
Thanks for replying MC, I really want to get people to start justifying what they post now, not just making assertions as facts with no foundation.

Bielsa is arrogant, or he wouldn’t be where he is - so is Klopp, Pep, Conte, etc., etc. - you know where m coming from. If you didn’t have self-;belief and confidence in your methods you’d get nowhere.

I agree regarding Roberts, but there is a player there. He might come good in 10 years.

Marcelo won’t change his methods at this point, at Leeds or anywhere else, so we buy in and trust him or we don’t.

For me, he’ll comfortably keep us out of the Championship this year. Again, I challenge anyone to come up with a better alternative for 21-22 season. They should also communicate their findings to LUFC.

What happens after that remains to be seen.
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Re: Brighton v Leeds Utd Match Thread - Raphinha, Rodrigo and Firpo Start

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Carrick Dave wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 1:03 am Thanks for replying MC, I really want to get people to start justifying what they post now, not just making assertions as facts with no foundation.

Bielsa is arrogant, or he wouldn’t be where he is - so is Klopp, Pep, Conte, etc., etc. - you know where m coming from. If you didn’t have self-;belief and confidence in your methods you’d get nowhere.

I agree regarding Roberts, but there is a player there. He might come good in 10 years.

Marcelo won’t change his methods at this point, at Leeds or anywhere else, so we buy in and trust him or we don’t.

For me, he’ll comfortably keep us out of the Championship this year. Again, I challenge anyone to come up with a better alternative for 21-22 season. They should also communicate their findings to LUFC.

What happens after that remains to be seen.
I appreciate your stance Dave, I really do. as an old timer like myself you understand better than most where we've been and where we could end up again.
I suppose frustration is well settling in, a couple of wins and we'll relax a bit, but, things need addressing, and sharpish.
The midfield is the area that needs strengthening , a midfielder with poise, Bielsa' methods won't allow for that type of player which is again frustrating.
I'll say goodneet, and all t' best, I, like yourself, and so many others , I love and live Leeds United, and will be around long after the next few managers............... well, I certainly hope so.
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Re: Brighton 0-0 Leeds Utd Match Thread

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Oh Dave, to your bit about arrogance.......once again I agree , pep, conte, klopp etc.
Would any of the above actually do anything without brass !!!
At least Bielsa has done something, and, albeit, stagnated (imo) but he has come in cold, with limited resources and delivered.
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Re: Brighton 0-0 Leeds Utd Match Thread

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We actually made Brighton look like Real Madrid. Tariq Lamptey was causing us hell and yet on the same field our flyer was playing 9 like a headless chook. We were utterly embarrassing. Leandro Trossard is the player we lost in Pablo and by Jesus did he run us ragged. If Liverpool or City had battered us like that I'd be worried, but not panicking. I though Struijk made a difference when he came on, Shackleton and Roberts are both Championship players. Joffy is a shining light for us off the bench and naturally lifts the side and the fans when he comes on, so I was perplexed he didn't see any time when the game was there to be unblievably snatched/burgled. Junior Firpo might need a few weeks in the U23s just to remember how to play football. Our confidence is shot and anyone believing Bamford is going to turn us around from this perfromance is delusional. Ronaldo would have a job doing that.

Potter is a very good coach and they could have won 5 nil without any protest.
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Re: Brighton 0-0 Leeds Utd Match Thread

Post by Boo Radley »

Well that game could be charitably called a curate’s egg of a game, bad but with a couple of good features.

The good for me was firstly the result. It’s an improvement on last season and an away point against a good team is always welcome. Secondly, there were good performances from Meslier and Struijk and, importantly from Forshaw over 90 minutes. Credit also has to go to Roberts who stretched the Brighton defence for the first time all game and was unlucky not to score of three decent efforts.

The bad will echo much of what was written already here. The overall lethargy of the team performance was actually shocking. Our passing was schoolboy standard on a mud bath of a pitch. I would love to know what percentage of completed passed we had today. Most were given away under little or no pressure. It was bizarre and piss poor.

Lamptey looked the new Brazilian wonder kid today, while Raphinha had a day off. I had to check a number of times in the second half to see if Rodrigo was still on the pitch. Cooper somehow managed not to give away a penalty, barely. Firpo is just not a Premier League footballer. Philips - well, as expected, Bielsa punished him for his silly comments last week by making him go out and do the exact same as what he was asked to do in Spurs but somehow managed to forget by the time he spoke to Sky. This crack on the camp needs to be fixed urgently because, either Philips will put up his hand to move, or Bielsa will put him up for sale.

The point and clean sheet are welcome but it was sad watching that game. It’s like the lights have gone out and everyone is going through the motions at the moment. If Brighton had a half decent striker they would have been up by 3 at halftime. The trouble is that every team we are due to play from here to the end of December have players well capable of scoring what Maupay alone missed. We are now left hoping and praying for Bamford to return - and we don’t even know what Bamford will return after this extended lay off.

We worked best as a cohesive, fast, pressing unit, but now we look a team of slightly lost individuals. If we don’t step up we really could hit a very bad run from here to year end. We need at least four points from the next two games. That would steady the ship at least.
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Re: Brighton v Leeds Utd Match Thread - Raphinha, Rodrigo and Firpo Start

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SG90 wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:41 pm Seen it all before tbh. And what was the shiner all about?
After Spurs game, Bielsa let the boys have a night out on London Town. Something happened to Kalvin on the dance floor. Commentators comment
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Re: Brighton v Leeds Utd Match Thread - Raphinha, Rodrigo and Firpo Start

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WhiteRose wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:06 pm The only reason I think a change could benefit us is with transfers. Bielsa has this idea that we should only sign players that are better than what we have which is something we can all get behind but it falls down due to his over inflated opinion on most of our squad. If a new manager came in it would be a fresh pair of eyes and more likely to make the needed changes.
Fresh pair of eyes at Newcastle and they still haven't won a game... saying that Gerrard has won two on the trot.
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Re: Brighton v Leeds Utd Match Thread - Raphinha, Rodrigo and Firpo Start

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Carrick Dave wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:35 pm MC, we had nobody who could have matched Lamptey for pace except James.

Cucurella stymied Rapha, but created himself- first time I’ve seen it.

Who would you bring in to replace Bielsa? Too easy to condemn, but who is the solution?
and he only cosy £3 million
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Re: Brighton 0-0 Leeds Utd Match Thread

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Up until yesterday I had an underlying feeling that we'll be fine, Bielsa and the players will fix it and we'll pull away from the relegation zone and comfortably stay up.

But I'm not convinced of that anymore. Are we capable of saving ourselves? At the moment we seem shot of confidence and determination to win. This square pegs in round holes approach isn't helping the players. First half I'm watching KP and Llorente swapping about at right-back, while our specialist right-back Ayling is injured, and his natural replacement Drameh isn't even on the bench.

Bielsa has frequently stated that players need to get match fit in the under 23s before they come back in after injury/illness. But Firpo came on last week, and started yesterday, with no match time for the U23s, and got 100% destroyed by Lamptey.

James as a number nine, no way is that ever gonna work, MB tried Harrison at 9 in the Cup at Crawley and that was just as disastrous.

No midfield again, now it's Forshaw's turn to fight the battle on his own.

These players look devoid of confidence and composure, and you could see it's even affecting KP and Raphinha now.

Next two matches are now must wins as we're heading in to some very difficult fixtures.

We're hoping there are three teams worse than us, but I'm not convinced of that now.

On the positive side there are at least seven teams in the mire, Leeds, Newcastle, Norwich, Burnley, Watford, Southampton and Brentford, and it's a possibility that Everton could get pulled into it.

If we don't get maximum points from the next two matches then the pressure and doubt will rise in our players and Bielsa. Yes, the club could and should bring in some players in January, an ACM like Swift at Reading is an absolute must. But where will we be by the end of January, in terms of points and position?

Very worrying times :(

Here's the next 10 fixtures that take us through January:

Palace H
Bees H
Chelsea A
City A
Arsenal H
Liverpool A
Villa H
Burnley H
West Ham A
Newcastle H
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Re: Brighton 0-0 Leeds Utd Match Thread

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Palace, Bees, Burnley, Newcastle are must wins , forget the rest anyway. Any points from those are a bonus.

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Re: Brighton v Leeds Utd Match Thread - Raphinha, Rodrigo and Firpo Start

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1964white wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 10:02 pm For the first time since we were promoted to the PL I'm unconvinced we are safe this season whereas last season I never considered relegation was on the cards, our performances are very concerning.

What's happened to our :

Pressing game.
Pass & move game.
Scoring goals on the break.
Entertaining the TV audiences.

I'm now living in hope that things will improve.
That's it Leon, I feel the same.

We've kept thinking, it's only two matches in blah, blah, it'll be reet, but it ain't reet, you can feel it in your guts that something is just way out of sync with us this season. We've done a third of the season now and witnessed some of the worst performances under Bielsa. He has to fix this and very soon.
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Re: Brighton 0-0 Leeds Utd Match Thread

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BGwhite wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:24 am Palace, Bees, Burnley, Newcastle are must wins , forget the rest anyway. Any points from those are a bonus.

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Our goal difference is gonna take a battering against those top sides if we play like we have done so far this season :(

That will also send the confidence of these players into a downward spiral.
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Re: Brighton 0-0 Leeds Utd Match Thread

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BGwhite wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:24 am Palace, Bees, Burnley, Newcastle are must wins , forget the rest anyway. Any points from those are a bonus.

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Seeing how tight the table is, with Leeds 6 points off 8th, if they win those they could nearly challenge for Europe!

Loads of games left, loads of teams like Brentford, Watford and Southampton that could easily end up fighting relegation,. But I would like to see Bamford return.
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Re: Brighton 0-0 Leeds Utd Match Thread

Post by billysboots »

Apparently Bamford and Ayling are back training but how long will it take to get them Bielsa fit?
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Re: Brighton 0-0 Leeds Utd Match Thread

Post by mentalcase »

I don't think Bamford is the answer, the whole team is in disarray , Bamford on fire, being provided for by a team on fire is a very different proposition to what is happening at the moment, why should Bamford get a look in straight away when Gelhardt cannot even get a look in !!
Anyway, are Bamford / Gelhardt good enough to replace James ?
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