How much trouble are we in?/interesting Square Ball podcast

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Chilli D
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Re: How much trouble are we in?

Post by Chilli D »

YorkshireSquare wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 11:31 am You'd have said that about Southampton before yesterdays game, but they totally dominated us
I can't comment on the whole game as I didn't see it, I only saw the MOTD highlights but if the shot that Harrison had at 0-0 which was blocked, had gone in, it may have changed the complexion of the game.
Even at the death, Dan James almost snatched us an equaliser.
But there's no denying the fact that we desperately need to be able to field our strongest side to have a chance of winning games at the moment, something along the lines of:
Meslier
Ayling
Llorente
Struijk
Firpo or Dallas
Summerville
Phillips
Shackleton
Raphinha (as a 10)
Bamford
James

Obviously Ayling is out for a few more weeks at least so Shackleton in there for him with Klich CM is the other option.
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Re: How much trouble are we in?

Post by SG90 »

1964white wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:36 pm I bet both Brighton & Brentford end up in the top 14 of the table.
Yes I believe there will be about 8 teams in the mix, ourselves, Norwich, Watford, Burnley, Southampton, Palace, Brentford and Brighton, plus maybe Villa. Last year the bottom 3 were so far adrift, but I don't think that'll be the case this year. So every game against these sides is massive.
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Re: How much trouble are we in?

Post by 1964white »

White Riot wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:22 pm Yeah, the table doesn't lie YS, we're in a lot of bother.

Getting one win from Burnley, Newcastle, Watford and Southampton is relegation form.

Hopefully our better players are back soon to try and improve things urgently.
If teams don't have a correct spine, they are in big trouble.

That's us this season, brittle & vulnerable thoughout the spine

Meslier, Llorente, Phillips, ????, Bamford.

How often have those four played together this season?

We are missing a proper attacking box to box midfielder.

Until we acquire the missing link, we haven't got a complete effective spine.
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Re: How much trouble are we in?

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SG90 wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:42 pm Yes I believe there will be about 8 teams in the mix, ourselves, Norwich, Watford, Burnley, Southampton, Palace, Brentford and Brighton, plus maybe Villa. Last year the bottom 3 were so far adrift, but I don't think that'll be the case this year. So every game against these sides is massive.
I would say Norwich, Watford, Burnley, Southampton, Palace & Leeds.

Newcastle are not safe until they employ a proper coach & sign the right players in the January window, easier said than done.

I doubt we'll get anything at Brentford or Brighton, we rarely do even when we are in decent form.
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Re: How much trouble are we in?

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mentalcase wrote: Yes it is only my opinion, but it is also FACT, no matter what spin you put on it, you simply cannot deny we are struggling and Bielsa will not change for anyone FACT.
Yes , we have had 3 incredible season with one of the so called greatest managers in the game, so great , he won erm nowt before coming to Leeds FACT.
All I'm saying is, we're struggling and haven't the manager capable of changing things because he's so stubborn, also we have owners that can't bring in new personnel because one of the "greatest managers in the game" throws a wobbly when you want to get rid of useless players like roberts & cooper and replace them with class, a 3 man decision is pathetic.
I'm reducing his football knowledge on his recent run of results, again FACT, I'm not making it up, the facts are staring us all in the face, FACT.
I keep saying it, rest on your laurels and you will suffer, yea yea, we've missed our players through injury and suspension, so have other clubs, thing is, other clubs have bigger squads, when their players are tired/injured/suspended, they bring in fresh faces with experience, we rely on over tired, over used players, we rely on roberts ffs, the youth are only featuring because of the injuries, then it will be back to the same old players that got us promotion, where is the forward thinking in that, eventually we will need to replace those players, will Bielsa be the man to do that or is he too loyal ?
Can't disagree with most of that . Your reference to ' forward thinking' is the crucial point as SG keeps eluding to. There has been hardly any of it considering MB spouts on a lot about evolving ! We have had reserves evolving since he came here but has blatantly refused to give them much needed minutes and experience even when we've been comfortable in games . Only because of injuries are our reserves getting game time which in terms of management is appalling for the kids' moral as much as anything. MB may be a good coach of youngsters but in terms of management I don't think very highly of him at all.

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Re: How much trouble are we in?

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Chilli D wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:37 pm I can't comment on the whole game as I didn't see it, I only saw the MOTD highlights but if the shot that Harrison had at 0-0 which was blocked, had gone in, it may have changed the complexion of the game.
Even at the death, Dan James almost snatched us an equaliser.
But there's no denying the fact that we desperately need to be able to field our strongest side to have a chance of winning games at the moment, something along the lines of:
Meslier
Ayling
Llorente
Struijk
Firpo or Dallas
Summerville
Phillips
Shackleton
Raphinha (as a 10)
Bamford
James

Obviously Ayling is out for a few more weeks at least so Shackleton in there for him with Klich CM is the other option.
My strongest 11 would be

Meslier
Ayling
Llorente
Koch
Firpo
Phillips
Klich
Raphinha
Harrison
James
Rodrigo
Best 11, everyone fit - Meslier - Ayling - Dallas - Koch - Struijk - Phillips - Forshaw - Raphinha - James - Roberts - Gelhardt
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Re: How much trouble are we in?

Post by WhiteRose »

Thought the money we paid for signing Harrison was daylight robbery but he hasn’t looked interested to me all season maybe because he is sulking or needs consistent starts. James is another who just doesn’t look the right fit for us I’d maybe try him in the centre and have Harrison and raph on the wings.

For the price of a midfielder are radz and co are willing to flush their whole project down the drain? I can’t see it, they will be in a position where they will need to spend. Get some decent loans lined up for January, a centre mid not getting enough game time from a prem team and a decent backup striker from the continent or weigh in with 15 mill for lingard - really don’t care about loan to buy agreements we need players to see out this season and sort it all in the summer.
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Re: How much trouble are we in?

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BGwhite wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:53 pm Can't disagree with most of that . Your reference to ' forward thinking' is the crucial point as SG keeps eluding to. There has been hardly any of it considering MB spouts on a lot about evolving ! We have had reserves evolving since he came here but has blatantly refused to give them much needed minutes and experience even when we've been comfortable in games . Only because of injuries are our reserves getting game time which in terms of management is appalling for the kids' moral as much as anything. MB may be a good coach of youngsters but in terms of management I don't think very highly of him at all.

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Unfortunately, first season Bielsa was giving youngsters like Clarke, Shackleton, Davis a chance, then the following season he became ultra conservative and only wanted to pick from 18 players, moving players out of position rather than give youth a go. Now he's stuck in his methods.
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Re: How much trouble are we in?

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Why is everyone forgetting how poor Ayling was before his injury? 🤔 I guess if Dallas gets injured we'll hear how much of a huge loss he is.
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Re: How much trouble are we in?

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We need to identify two midfielders now and get them in asap. I don't even care if they're just loans. No fannying about all month and last minute overpriced panic buy and certainly not signing no one. No excuses!
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Re: How much trouble are we in?

Post by VinnysTattoo »

SG90 wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 1:37 pm Unfortunately, first season Bielsa was giving youngsters like Clarke, Shackleton, Davis a chance, then the following season he became ultra conservative and only wanted to pick from 18 players, moving players out of position rather than give youth a go. Now he's stuck in his methods.
Agree wholeheartedly with this.

Forshaw was part of his “18” and he is suddenly in his plans. Anyone think Forshaw was pulling up trees in the Championship?
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Re: How much trouble are we in?

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SG90 wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 1:45 pm We need to identify two midfielders now and get them in asap. I don't even care if they're just loans. No fannying about all month and last minute overpriced panic buy and certainly not signing no one. No excuses!
This is what I keep telling myself, they know who we want and are keeping it quite so no other teams hijack the moves, then the real me takes over and is proper cynical or just plain truthful, we rely on Bielsa' every word.
Surely Radz & Orta can't keep accepting his every whim, surely they must realise we've taken a step backwards, even taking injuries into consideration, they must see the deficiencies in the whole set-up !!
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Re: How much trouble are we in?

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VinnysTattoo wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 2:32 pm Agree wholeheartedly with this.

Forshaw was part of his “18” and he is suddenly in his plans. Anyone think Forshaw was pulling up trees in the Championship?
Just an average PL footballer, a midfielder who doesn't score goals & makes few assists. Never set the championship alight. Forshaw wouldn't make it into many PL squads.

Typical Leeds midfielder, I'm afraid. :(
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Re: How much trouble are we in?

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I think we should remember that whilst we were missing regulars Southampton had a far more disruptive summer

Our squad that played yesterday have almost all bar James been playing together for years and that should for a side so reliant on the system be an advantage.

It's to simplistic to make excuses because of players missing

Southampton hadn't won in 10 games, Southampton lost Danny Ings, Jannick Vestergaard and Ryan Bertrand in the summer plus James Ward Prowse, Che Adams and Jack Stephens were all unavailable to.

Southampton were miles better than us yesterday and let's not kid ourselves, we have had Raph, Bamford, KP etc in the side this season and still been really really poor.

Performance levels haven't been good as a team or individuals and yesterday was merely the worst of a collective of lacklustre performances.

So I think just saying "ah it will be OK when Raph and Co are back" because Raph and Co have played this season and we still haven't played well.

Their is something wrong at LUFC.

Yesterday we were outran for the first time.

I don't think everything will just be fine when Raph and Co is back because everything wasn't fine before when they were back.

We are in a relegation battle make no mistake imo.
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Re: How much trouble are we in?

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1964white wrote: Just an average PL footballer, a midfielder who doesn't score goals & makes few assists. Never set the championship alight. Forshaw wouldn't make it to many PL squads.

Typical Leeds midfielder, I'm afraid. :(
An average PL footballer is being very generous !

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Re: How much trouble are we in?

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Cjay wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:45 pm I think we should remember that whilst we were missing regulars Southampton had a far more disruptive summer

Our squad that played yesterday have almost all bar James been playing together for years and that should for a side so reliant on the system be an advantage.

It's to simplistic to make excuses because of players missing

Southampton hadn't won in 10 games, Southampton lost Danny Ings, Jannick Vestergaard and Ryan Bertrand in the summer plus James Ward Prowse, Che Adams and Jack Stephens were all unavailable to.

Southampton were miles better than us yesterday and let's not kid ourselves, we have had Raph, Bamford, KP etc in the side this season and still been really really poor.

Performance levels haven't been good as a team or individuals and yesterday was merely the worst of a collective of lacklustre performances.

So I think just saying "ah it will be OK when Raph and Co are back" because Raph and Co have played this season and we still haven't played well.

Their is something wrong at LUFC.

Yesterday we were outran for the first time.

I don't think everything will just be fine when Raph and Co is back because everything wasn't fine before when they were back.

We are in a relegation battle make no mistake imo.
We've missed Llorente too, we always concede a bucket load of goals with Cooper & Ayling at the heart of our defence.

Struijk looks a better CB when he plays alongside Llorente.
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Re: How much trouble are we in?

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1964white wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:57 pm We've missed Llorente too, we always concede a bucket load of goals with Cooper & Ayling at the heart of our defence.

Struijk looks a better CB when he plays alongside Llorente.
Very true.

But they sold their best cb, that's why you have a squad.

Can't use injuries as an excuse imo.

Llorente is class but injury prone.
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Re: How much trouble are we in?

Post by White Riot »

I quoted these stats the other day and fully expected a win before I saw the team-sheet, but regardless of our missing players, that was a woeful, pathetic and spineless performance against a poor team that will be flirting with relegation. A team that this calendar year has conceded an average of two goals per match. So against that side we didn't manage to get a single shot on target, that is diabolical :evil:

Saints in 2021
Played 29
Points 24
For 25
Against 58

Anybody still think all's fine and dandy?
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Re: How much trouble are we in?

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White Riot wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 5:42 pm I quoted these stats the other day and fully expected a win before I saw the team-sheet, but regardless of our missing players, that was a woeful, pathetic and spineless performance against a poor team that will be flirting with relegation. A team that this calendar year has conceded an average of two goals per match. So against that side we didn't manage to get a single shot on target, that is diabolical :evil:

Saints in 2021
Played 29
Points 24
For 25
Against 58

Anybody still think all's fine and dandy?
Not at all mate, still struggling to get my head round how poor we were :shock:

You have to remember we have spent nearly £90 million on five of those players in yesterday's line-up over the last eighteen months, £65m on attacking talent to create virtually nothing.
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Re: How much trouble are we in?

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Also for all the talk about how everything will be ok once we get KP, Raph and co back.

KP has missed 2 games of 8 and only missed Southampton and Manure.

Raph only missed yesterday.

Ayling played 5 games (we won none conceded 12)

Bamford played 5 also taking 15 shots scoring 1 with only 4 shots on target.

So it isnt like things were going well when those players were fit either, no reason to think if and when they get back things will change.
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