Leeds Utd v West Ham Utd Match Thread

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Re: Leeds Utd v West Ham Utd Match Thread

Post by Cjay »

Irish Ian wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 6:30 pm There will be a lot of pressure being brought to bear from off the field now.


With the extra investors coming on board there is no way they will stand by and allow this squad not to be strengthened in the coming window. We all know that Orta doesn't value the January window at all and that Bielsa needs players to have six weeks under him to understand how he sees things but I seriously doubt if that will hold much sway with those who pull the purse strings.

This cannot be allowed to fail. But that may mean that something may be forced to give between now and the end of December.

Three critical months coming up.
Would Radz and Co role the dice and stick with Bielsa no matter what?

Not for one moment suggesting we sack him because the squad is so weak full of limited energetic players for his style that I doubt another manager could get more out of the squad (although I strongly suspect many of the group are running on empty anyway).

But if by Xmas we are down in the bottom 3 would Radz stick or twist?

This club doesn't bounce back first time imo, if we go down we stay down.

Relegation would ruin years of work effectively.

So what would they do? I wonder.
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Re: Leeds Utd v West Ham Utd Match Thread

Post by Ellandback1 »

Too many fans, including all the decision makers at the club have far too much blind faith in Bielsa.

His coaching ability is beyond reproach, but as a Manager, it scares me!

We have a tiny squad, filled with too many who have been playing at their peak under Bielsa. They're form was bound to drop at some point!

Our wage bill, which is over 100m should scare the life out of Radrizzani!
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Re: Leeds Utd v West Ham Utd Match Thread

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1964white wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 5:16 pm Bielsa is as predictable as our cat :moggy:

Other coaches at this level have sussed him out.
Does seem the case Leon :(

How would MB use a flair midfielder?
Messi, Hoddle, McCallister. I don't expect those guys to run all day and do the shovel work, you use less technically gifted players to do the tackling and running.
So if MB is expecting those guys to just run around and tackle, eg Rodrigo then he's on the wrong track.
10 David Battys is not gonna succeed at this level
Does a playmaker not fit his system?
We having been missing players, but when that puts MB in a position where he should put in a specialist you would still bet on him keeping as loyal as possible to his favourites and this can be to the detriment of Leeds United.

Roberts comes on the right wing for the injured Raphinha :?
Honestly, wtf, we just watched that not work very recently.
Summerville is the logical choice and just coming off a win at Fulham, during which Roberts was yanked off.
When Struijks available he must start, and that could be an awesome partnership with Charlie Cresswell.
But I would bet my life on MB keeping Cooper in with Struijk.
Shackleton showed some great touches and wonderfully mature play, and after KP needs to be the second name in that midfield.

MB definitely needs to buck up his ideas as otherwise we've stagnated and as many of us have said, stagnating at this level will be the death of you.
Last edited by White Riot on Sat Sep 25, 2021 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Leeds Utd v West Ham Utd Match Thread

Post by Mountain »

I always hate it when a manager takes a club from nothing to success they haven't seen for decades, and the fans say it's amazing, and are nearly building the statue...and one or two poor months later they question everything, his temperament, signings, tactics...everything.
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Re: Leeds Utd v West Ham Utd Match Thread

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Cjay wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:51 pm Would Radz and Co role the dice and stick with Bielsa no matter what?

Not for one moment suggesting we sack him because the squad is so weak full of limited energetic players for his style that I doubt another manager could get more out of the squad (although I strongly suspect many of the group are running on empty anyway).

But if by Xmas we are down in the bottom 3 would Radz stick or twist?

This club doesn't bounce back first time imo, if we go down we stay down.

Relegation would ruin years of work effectively.

So what would they do? I wonder.
The problem is we've built the squad to exactly what he wants, but now they've reached their max and he won't change things or change the style, which is costing us.

If we're in big trouble come Christmas, I think we would have to. Hard to swallow, but losing our PL status would set us back 10 years.
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Re: Leeds Utd v West Ham Utd Match Thread

Post by Cjay »

Mountain wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 8:03 pm I always hate it when a manager takes a club from nothing to success they haven't seen for decades, and the fans say it's amazing, and are nearly building the statue...and one or two poor months later they question everything, his temperament, signings, tactics...everything.
At the end of the day we are Leeds United Football Club not Marcelo Bielsa football club and nobody is beyond criticism.

Appreciative for what he has done but football is a results business and you get judged on results.

We are in a really poor way at the moment and people being concerned is totally justified as is questioning Bielsa.

He is the manager and the buck stops with him when all is said and done.

He has gotten tons of praise during his time here and when things aren't going well he gets criticism to as do other managers.

Nobody is calling for his sacking but is concern justified? Absolutely surely?
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Re: Leeds Utd v West Ham Utd Match Thread

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SG90 wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 8:06 pm The problem is we've built the squad to exactly what he wants, but now they've reached their max and he won't change things or change the style, which is costing us.

If we're in big trouble come Christmas, I think we would have to. Hard to swallow, but losing our PL status would set us back 10 years.
I get that but as you say we have built the squad for Bielsa and It seems to me that means prioritising off the ball skills (energy effort etc) over tactical fit and technical ability.

Therefore it wouldn't be easy finding a manager who would be able to turn this ship around if necessary imo because the squad is built around being extremely robotic and limited and well coached.

A new manager may require more freedom and tactical flexibility and we don't have that in this squad.
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Re: Leeds Utd v West Ham Utd Match Thread

Post by Cumbriarents »

Were not that bad. We have started quite poorly but I have lots of faith in Bielsa to turn it around.
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Re: Leeds Utd v West Ham Utd Match Thread

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Cjay wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 8:12 pm I get that but as you say we have built the squad for Bielsa and It seems to me that means prioritising off the ball skills (energy effort etc) over tactical fit and technical ability.

Therefore it wouldn't be easy finding a manager who would be able to turn this ship around if necessary imo because the squad is built around being extremely robotic and limited and well coached.

A new manager may require more freedom and tactical flexibility and we don't have that in this squad.
Yep.
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Re: Leeds Utd v West Ham Utd Match Thread

Post by BGwhite »

Marcelo Bielsa: Adam Forshaw has tear in posterior part of thigh

Dunno if it's true but it's what I've read. Not surprised really.

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Re: Leeds Utd v West Ham Utd Match Thread

Post by SG90 »

How much longer are we going to keep talking about promotion? That was two years ago now. Now we're in the relegation zone, winless and struggling to score.
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Re: Leeds Utd v West Ham Utd Match Thread

Post by Overman »

Cjay wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 8:09 pm At the end of the day we are Leeds United Football Club not Marcelo Bielsa football club and nobody is beyond criticism.

Appreciative for what he has done but football is a results business and you get judged on results.

We are in a really poor way at the moment and people being concerned is totally justified as is questioning Bielsa.

He is the manager and the buck stops with him when all is said and done.

He has gotten tons of praise during his time here and when things aren't going well he gets criticism to as do other managers.

Nobody is calling for his sacking but is concern justified? Absolutely surely?
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Re: Leeds Utd v West Ham Utd Match Thread

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White Riot wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 8:02 pm Does seem the case Leon :(

How would MB use a flair midfielder?
Messi, Hoddle, McCallister. I don't expect those guys to run all day and do the shovel work, you use less technically gifted players to do the tackling and running.
So if MB is expecting those guys to just run around and tackle, eg Rodrigo then he's on the wrong track.
10 David Battys is not gonna succeed at this level
Does a playmaker not fit his system?
We having been missing players, but when that puts MB in a position where he should put in a specialist you would still bet on him keeping as loyal as possible to his favourites and this can be to the detriment of Leeds United.

Roberts comes on the right wing for the injured Raphinha :?
Honestly, wtf, we just watched that not work very recently.
Summerville is the logical choice and just coming off a win at Fulham, during which Roberts was yanked off.
When Struijks available he must start, and that could be an awesome partnership with Charlie Cresswell.
But I would bet my life on MB keeping Cooper in with Struijk.
Shackleton showed some great touches and wonderfully mature play, and after KP needs to be the second name in that midfield.
MB definitely needs to buck up his ideas as otherwise we've stagnated and as many of us have said, stagnating at this level will be the death of you.
Good points mate.

Struijk, Cresswell & Meslier are our future at the back

Never got Bielsa's subs, how often do our substitutes effect a game :roll:

Not playing a prolific U23's goalscorer when those in front of him are not doing the business is simply mind-boggling imo!

The young lads are not letting us down, it's our older heads whom are responsible for our poor form.

Raphinha was brilliant today, far too reliant on our Brazilian for our attacking play.
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Re: Leeds Utd v West Ham Utd Match Thread

Post by 1964white »

Leeds' defensive woes in our opening six PL games:

Shots Faced: 112 (most)
Penalty Box Shots Faced: 73 (most)
Shots On-Target Faced: 42 (most)
GK Saves: 27 (most)
Big Chances Against: 16 (3rd-most)
Goals Conceded: 14 (Joint 2nd-most)
Clean Sheets: 0 (Joint-fewest)
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Re: Leeds Utd v West Ham Utd Match Thread

Post by Scoobychief »

BGwhite wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 8:15 pm Marcelo Bielsa: Adam Forshaw has tear in posterior part of thigh

Dunno if it's true but it's what I've read. Not surprised really.

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Posterior side of thigh you couldn't make this s**t up. The bloke (forshaw) is a complete dead leg. Full stop
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Re: Leeds Utd v West Ham Utd Match Thread

Post by BGwhite »

Looks like big Emma is at the AJ fight...sorry Emma is at the big fight

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Re: Leeds Utd v West Ham Utd Match Thread

Post by SG90 »

Bogusz scored another worldie today. Imagine if he'd been given half the chances Roberts has. :duno:
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Re: Leeds Utd v West Ham Utd Match Thread

Post by BGwhite »

SG90 wrote:Bogusz scored another worldie today. Imagine if he'd been given half the chances Roberts has. :duno:
Yeah but does he run around a lot ?

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Re: Leeds Utd v West Ham Utd Match Thread

Post by Irish Ian »

Cjay wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:51 pm Would Radz and Co role the dice and stick with Bielsa no matter what?

Not for one moment suggesting we sack him because the squad is so weak full of limited energetic players for his style that I doubt another manager could get more out of the squad (although I strongly suspect many of the group are running on empty anyway).

But if by Xmas we are down in the bottom 3 would Radz stick or twist?

This club doesn't bounce back first time imo, if we go down we stay down.

Relegation would ruin years of work effectively.

So what would they do? I wonder.
I reckon another month of this and they will be drawing up a shortlist.

Not suggesting that is desirable from my perspective but they have to protect the project.

Of course in a month we could be mid table
'
"Football is about the people and the players,” he said. “Then there are those who will mingle in the middle: the coaches, executives and journalists. That last group represents the worst part about football" Marcelo Bielsa
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Re: Leeds Utd v West Ham Utd Match Thread

Post by Cjay »

1964white wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 8:29 pm Leeds' defensive woes in our opening six PL games:

Shots Faced: 112 (most)
Penalty Box Shots Faced: 73 (most)
Shots On-Target Faced: 42 (most)
GK Saves: 27 (most)
Big Chances Against: 16 (3rd-most)
Goals Conceded: 14 (Joint 2nd-most)
Clean Sheets: 0 (Joint-fewest)
Thats extremely bad and highlights that the style that has got us where we are is now actively hindering us, those sort of numbers end in relegation, that must not be allowed to continue.
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