faaip wrote: ↑Fri May 07, 2021 8:52 am
They're done unfortunately, they'll go down in history as a 50 yr blip. First in 1923 last true labour Government ended in 79 ..Blair had to basically become Tory to win an election. Brown I guess but he got in by default as Callahan did even if he was successful as a PM
Baldwin
Atlee
Wilson
True labour leaders to win an election over 100 yrs
So a ' true Labour government ' was considered to be a success when in 1976 the UK government was declared bankrupt and forced to go to the IMF for a 4 billion Dollar loan ?
Once foreign buyers of government IOUs ( gilts ) decide to sit on their hands then that's when the music stops and a state goes bust.
It's the equivalent of an individual relying on borrowing heavily on personal loans and credit cards in order to service the minimum payments and the interest accumulation on huge debts on other credit cards, until the day that the credit card companies decide that they will offer no more credit....No more robbing Peter to pay Paul in other words. This is what the British state is doing right now.
Labour somewhat bucking the trend elsewhere here in where they are doing very well in the Assembly/Senedd elections.
Perhaps though a different situation where they’re contesting the elections from a position of being (and having been for some little while) in Government, whereas in England and Scotland they are fighting from a position of opposition - and seemingly struggling oppose at that.
1964white wrote: ↑Fri May 07, 2021 9:06 pm
As are the majority of England Swannie
And me the pathetic few that are against it are against democracy.
If Jimmy Clitheroe gets her referendum and wins that will strengthen the Brexit vote.
Proof is in the pudding and the best guide is the ftse, it's flying Brexit was a great decision.
Add to that Europe is embarrassed by the vaccine roll out and showing it.
As an outsider looking in, it's a headscratcher. We read about foodbanks and kids in Devon being fed by the UN, we hear the Union creaking as Scotland continues to move to the SNP while NI seems hellbent on electing a dinosaur who doesn't believe in dinosaurs, we see the personal scandals that envelop Johnson. Are things really good on the ground and behind the headlines, or is Labour just election poison...
You know Labour are f*cked when working classes are voting Tory! Hate modern day Labour, so can't vote for them, but unfortunately there's no decent alternative.
CHAPELALLMAN wrote: ↑Fri May 07, 2021 12:36 pm
Labour and Blair/Brown basically lied to get into power in 1997 through pretending that they were fiscally responsible, and had learnt the lessons from past Labour mistakes whilst in power. To do this they adopted the Tory spending plans - a kind of trojan horse to get into power.
For their first term they were actually fiscally responsible - reducing the national debt ( rather than just the deficit ) for one of the very few times in the history of the UK national debt since it started under William 111. Then after being re elected in 2001 they went completely mad and reverted to type - taking a national debt from 350 billion when they came into power in 1997 - which had taken 303 years and two world wars to reach that level - up to just over 1 trillion GBP when they were thrown out in 2010. So tripling a national debt which had built up in just over 300 years in just 9 years !! Massive overspending was already happening well before the financial crisis kicked in, which they helped to bring about anyway through lax regulation of the banking sector.
To give an idea of the mess the British state is now in, all of the 23 billion GBP or so in interest payments on the national debt has to be borrowed through issuing more government gilts. As the maturity on this debt is now quite short, if interest rates were to rise suddenly, then the state might find itself suddenly having to pay more than 100 billion a year in interest payments alone - all of which will have to be borrowed just as long as it is running a deficit...Imagine having huge credit card debt and then keeping yourself afloat through borrowing with other loans in order to meet the minimum payments and the interest charges...
Anybody who doesn't want to see the country totally bankrupt would never ever contemplate the idea of Labour getting back into power.
Not trying to sound thick or anything lol but... who are we actually borrowing all this money from?
I'm going back to 505, I saw them at Sheffield and they were amazing.
becchio bear wrote: ↑Sat May 08, 2021 5:11 pm
Not trying to sound thick or anything lol but... who are we actually borrowing all this money from?
Investors who buy government gilts - in 1976 they ' went on strike ' and refused to buy anymore. They are usually investment funds. Some foreign sovereign funds as well.
The Bank of England also buys gilts issued by the Treasury, and then doesn't ask for its money back when they mature - that's quantative easing, and debases the currency eventually.
Last edited by CHAPELALLMAN on Sat May 08, 2021 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If memory serves...Brown was also guilty of selling off some of our gold reserves, when gold was at its lowest for a long time BB... which cost us in the long term
Smudge3920 wrote: ↑Sat May 08, 2021 5:20 pm
If memory serves...Brown was also guilty of selling off some of our gold reserves, when gold was at its lowest for a long time BB... which cost us in the long term
I know about that Smudge. I'm still unsure from whom we are borrowing?
I'm going back to 505, I saw them at Sheffield and they were amazing.
where they are doing very well in the Assembly/Senedd elections.
