The #LUFC Breakfast Debate (Tuesday 4th May) Bielsa defends Bamford decision

[White Riot]

Who, from the U23's will make it onto the big stage? Who should go out on loan, and who is ready to make the first team? Will Bielsa give the youngsters a chance to shine?

Difficult to say as we have never seen them play for the first team, other than the debacle at Crawley, and it would be really harsh to judge the young uns solely on that shambles.

With Bielsa's penchant for a small firs team squad and his insistence on stability and loyalty I find it hard to see where these young lads are gonna get a spot on the first team, other than an injury or suspension crisis, as poor form/lack of ability doesn't seem to have an impact on anyone whose in the first team, barring Kiko of course

For the ones that are ready for soem kind of first team footy Bielsa should sent them out on loan to the appropriate level of football. If he does intend to use them in the first team then keep them and use them in PL2, but some of them must at least make the first team bench.

We need a clear out of the first team squad: Costa, Klich, Roberts, Forshaw, Alioski can all go for me and I wouldn't sign Harrison permanently either. We'll need a few players in this summer and should also be looking to some of the youngsters as cover, as we've done with Poveda, Struijk and Shackleton.

I don't get Bielsa's logic there?

He hooks Bamford because the midfield are not supplying him? Makes zero sense to me that? Harrison, Roberts and Klich were dire but he kept them on?

The only thing I've noticed is that the service to Bamford in the second half of the season has been very poor, so you can't expect him to work wonders. But he also seems to have dropped off in from and fitness. He's not the threat he was and rarely has an attempt on goal. Maybe lost a bit of confidence, but I have noticed that he's getting bossed again by big lump CBs and is less physical/pressing than he was. When he's been hooked off a few times he's looked completely knackered after only playing 60 mins an don alot of occasions he hasn't been in the game at all.

So it's a bit of both for me, the service has been shite, but he also looks out of sorts, as he did on a lot of occasions in the Championship. Let's not forget that despite all his plaudits this season, and I do love him, he's generally missed a lot of chances in the Championship and should have had a lot more than he actually scored.

I don't see Ryan Kent happening, Rangers will want more than we're prepared to pay, same with Rodrigo De Paul. It's hilarious the way Kent says "While I'm still at Rangers" twice in the short quote above. I think he's looking to put himself in the shop window via CL and get on the path to glory and big bucks, but by then he'll be out of our price range and I really feel we could do better if we do some good scouting and bargaining this summer.

[1964white]

Who, from the U23's will make it onto the big stage? Who should go out on loan, and who is ready to make the first team? Will Bielsa give the youngsters a chance to shine?

Difficult to say as we have never seen them play for the first team, other than the debacle at Crawley, and it would be really harsh to judge the young uns solely on that shambles.

With Bielsa's penchant for a small firs team squad and his insistence on stability and loyalty I find it hard to see where these young lads are gonna get a spot on the first team, other than an injury or suspension crisis, as poor form/lack of ability doesn't seem to have an impact on anyone whose in the first team, barring Kiko of course

For the ones that are ready for soem kind of first team footy Bielsa should sent them out on loan to the appropriate level of football. If he does intend to use them in the first team then keep them and use them in PL2, but some of them must at least make the first team bench.

We need a clear out of the first team squad: Costa, Klich, Roberts, Forshaw, Alioski can all go for me and I wouldn't sign Harrison permanently either. We'll need a few players in this summer and should also be looking to some of the youngsters as cover, as we've done with Poveda, Struijk and Shackleton.

I don't get Bielsa's logic there?

He hooks Bamford because the midfield are not supplying him? Makes zero sense to me that? Harrison, Roberts and Klich were dire but he kept them on?

The only thing I've noticed is that the service to Bamford in the second half of the season has been very poor, so you can't expect him to work wonders. But he also seems to have dropped off in from and fitness. He's not the threat he was and rarely has an attempt on goal. Maybe lost a bit of confidence, but I have noticed that he's getting bossed again by big lump CBs and is less physical/pressing than he was. When he's been hooked off a few times he's looked completely knackered after only playing 60 mins an don alot of occasions he hasn't been in the game at all.

So it's a bit of both for me, the service has been shite, but he also looks out of sorts, as he did on a lot of occasions in the Championship. Let's not forget that despite all his plaudits this season, and I do love him, he's generally missed a lot of chances in the Championship and should have had a lot more than he actually scored.

I don't see Ryan Kent happening, Rangers will want more than we're prepared to pay, same with Rodrigo De Paul. It's hilarious the way Kent says "While I'm still at Rangers" twice in the short quote above. I think he's looking to put himself in the shop window via CL and get on the path to glory and big bucks, but by then he'll be out of our price range and I really feel we could do better if we do some good scouting and bargaining this summer.

Agree with all of that WR

[Lumiukko]

Anyone been here before?

I've had the breakfast in a loaf from Greasy Pig, but when it used to be in Armley back in 2017. Guess it moved to Headingley since then. Near on killed me. I couldn't do anything for the rest of the day. It was delicious though.

[White Riot]

I've had the breakfast in a loaf from Greasy Pig, but when it used to be in Armley back in 2017. Guess it moved to Headingley since then. Near on killed me. I couldn't do anything for the rest of the day. It was delicious though.

A long time ago, when I used to work at Sellafield, a few miles down the road at Seascale there was a small bakers that used to do a Fat ba***rd Burger which was basically a large Stottie cake that contained a full English breakfast, Delicious, but an absolute heart stopper.

When I first started at Sellafield in 1986 you could get a set breakfast for 85 pence, which was pretty much all you can eat, bacon, sausage, fried eggs, scrambled eggs, tomatoes, mushrooms and about 30 slices of toast

[Ellandback1]

Ex-Aston Villa star Dalian Atkinson died after being tasered three times and kicked at least twice to the head by an “angry” police officer, a murder trial jury has heard.

The jury at Birmingham Crown Court was told West Mercia Police Constable Benjamin Monk denies the murder and manslaughter of the 48-year-old former footballer, who also played for Ipswich Town and Sheffield Wednesday.

Opening the Crown’s case against the 42-year-old officer, who was charged after a three-year inquiry into Mr Atkinson’s death in 2016 in Telford, Shropshire, prosecution counsel Alexandra Healy alleged the ex-footballer was tasered for 33 seconds, more than six times the standard five-second phase.

The QC told the court on Tuesday that Mr Atkinson, who had serious health problems including end stage renal failure, moved towards the officers after they were called to a disturbance in Meadow Close, Telford, at about 1.30am.

Outlining the Crown’s case, the prosecutor said the third deployment of a Taser by Monk was “completely effective” and caused Mr Atkinson neuro-muscular incapacitation before he fell forwards onto the road.

The barrister told the jury: “The standard default setting of a Taser is a five-second phase, but it is possible to override that by continuing to depress the trigger.

“And Pc Monk continued to depress the trigger for over six times the length of a standard five-second phase.

“The taser was deployed for 33 seconds.”

The prosecution counsel added: “Pc Monk also proceeded to kick Dalian Atkinson.

“At least two kicks were delivered by him to Dalian Atkinson’s forehead with enough force to leave the imprints of the pattern of the laces from the top of his boot on two separate areas of Mr Atkinson’s forehead.”

She has pleaded not guilty to a charge alleging she assaulted Mr Atkinson occasioning actual bodily harm before his death on August 15 2016.

The court heard that Monk, who has 14 years’ service in uniform, and Bettley-Smith, who joined the force in February 2015, were in a relationship at the time of the incident.

Addressing Bettley-Smith’s alleged role, Ms Healy claimed the younger officer had struck Mr Atkinson, whilst he was lying on the ground, a number of times with her baton.

The prosecutor added of Monk: “In kicking Dalian Atkinson in the head not once, but on two separate occasions, Pc Monk was not, the prosecution say, acting in self-defence or in defence of another.

“He was no doubt angry that he had been put in fear by this man.

“He chose to take that anger out on Dalian Atkinson by kicking him in the head.

“His training will have taught him, and it is obvious, that the head is a sensitive area.

“In kicking Dalian Atkinson to the head Pc Monk can only, the prosecution say, have only intended to cause really serious injury.”

The court heard Mr Atkinson had been a successful professional footballer, playing for Aston Villa between 1991 and 1995.

Ms Healy told the court: “In more recent years he had had a number of serious health issues.

“He had high blood pressure and in fact had heart disease – hypertrophic cardiomyopathy – a disease in which the heart muscles become abnormally thick, which can make it harder for the heart to pump blood around the body.

“He was also suffering from end stage renal failure.”

Describing Mr Atkinson’s behaviour at the scene as disturbed and erratic, Ms Healy said: “He was shouting in the street, demanding to be let into his father’s house.

“It awoke some of the neighbours, one of whom was so concerned that she phoned the police.

“The two defendants were the two police officers who attended the scene in response.

“Police Constable Monk was the more experienced officer and was armed with a Taser. He was equipped, as is standard, with three Taser cartridges. Pc Bettley-Smith was armed with an extendable baton.”

After knocking at the door of the ex-footballer’s father’s home, Monk attempted to taser Mr Atkinson but it was ineffective, the court heard, possibly because the two probes did not attach properly.

Police near the scene of the alleged murder in Meadow Close, Telford. (Joe Giddens/PA)
Police near the scene of the alleged murder in Meadow Close, Telford. (Joe Giddens/PA)
Mr Atkinson then came out of the address and advanced to the end of the drive, prompting Pc Monk to deploy a second Taser cartridge towards Mr Atkinson’s back, which was also ineffective.

Ms Healy went on: “Dalian Atkinson then proceeded to punch the glass pane in the top half of the door to his father’s address, causing it to smash.

“He did not enter the house and there was a further confrontation between the officers and Dalian Atkinson.

“He had come back towards the two officers who were moved backwards away from him in the road.”

The Crown allege Mr Atkinson was then the subject of an unlawful attack after a Taser was used for a third time.

Ms Healy told the court: “A number of residents living in Meadow Close witnessed this attack.

“Their view was that once Dalian Atkinson had fallen to the ground he was unresponsive and still. He was no longer posing any threat to the officers. Nonetheless the two officers set about him.

“Pc Monk is charged with murder. You will want to consider that allegation with very great care. A person is guilty of murder if he unlawfully – and by that I mean not acting in self defence – kills another with the intention of killing or the intention of causing grievous bodily harm to that other.

“The two officers on that night were on duty responding to an emergency call. On any view, they were confronted with a man who was clearly acting in a disturbed and erratic way.

“They were entitled to use reasonable force to defend themselves or protect another. The prosecution do not criticise their conduct prior to the discharge of the third Taser cartridge.

“However, when the deployment of that last cartridge was completely effective, causing Dalian Atkinson to experience that neuromuscular incapacitation and fall to the ground, the prosecution say it was not reasonable to continue to depress the Taser for 33 seconds.”

The court heard an ambulance was called but Mr Atkinson, who had lost consciousness and was unresponsive, went into cardiac arrest en route to hospital and was pronounced dead at 2.45am.

Ms Healy said: “The pathologists and intensive care expert instructed by the prosecution agree that whilst his underlying health conditions meant that Dalian Atkinson was at a greatly increased risk of dying, were it not for the third Taser deployment and the kicks to his head, Dalian Atkinson would not have died that night.

“The two defendants claim they were entitled to use force on Dalian Atkinson whilst he was lying on the ground because he was attempting to get up and they feared for their safety.

“As you listen to the evidence you will of course consider that with great care.”

[Chilli D]

Anyone been here before?

When I was working in Romania, the restaurants served soup in a hollowed out loaf of bread as a starter! It was a meal in itself.

[Chilli D]

Who, from the U23's will make it onto the big stage? Who should go out on loan, and who is ready to make the first team? Will Bielsa give the youngsters a chance to shine?

Difficult to say as we have never seen them play for the first team, other than the debacle at Crawley, and it would be really harsh to judge the young uns solely on that shambles.

With Bielsa's penchant for a small firs team squad and his insistence on stability and loyalty I find it hard to see where these young lads are gonna get a spot on the first team, other than an injury or suspension crisis, as poor form/lack of ability doesn't seem to have an impact on anyone whose in the first team, barring Kiko of course

For the ones that are ready for soem kind of first team footy Bielsa should sent them out on loan to the appropriate level of football. If he does intend to use them in the first team then keep them and use them in PL2, but some of them must at least make the first team bench.

We need a clear out of the first team squad: Costa, Klich, Roberts, Forshaw, Alioski can all go for me and I wouldn't sign Harrison permanently either. We'll need a few players in this summer and should also be looking to some of the youngsters as cover, as we've done with Poveda, Struijk and Shackleton.

I don't get Bielsa's logic there?

He hooks Bamford because the midfield are not supplying him? Makes zero sense to me that? Harrison, Roberts and Klich were dire but he kept them on?

The only thing I've noticed is that the service to Bamford in the second half of the season has been very poor, so you can't expect him to work wonders. But he also seems to have dropped off in from and fitness. He's not the threat he was and rarely has an attempt on goal. Maybe lost a bit of confidence, but I have noticed that he's getting bossed again by big lump CBs and is less physical/pressing than he was. When he's been hooked off a few times he's looked completely knackered after only playing 60 mins an don alot of occasions he hasn't been in the game at all.

So it's a bit of both for me, the service has been shite, but he also looks out of sorts, as he did on a lot of occasions in the Championship. Let's not forget that despite all his plaudits this season, and I do love him, he's generally missed a lot of chances in the Championship and should have had a lot more than he actually scored.

I don't see Ryan Kent happening, Rangers will want more than we're prepared to pay, same with Rodrigo De Paul. It's hilarious the way Kent says "While I'm still at Rangers" twice in the short quote above. I think he's looking to put himself in the shop window via CL and get on the path to glory and big bucks, but by then he'll be out of our price range and I really feel we could do better if we do some good scouting and bargaining this summer.

Definitely agree about how shattered Bamford has looked when he has been taken off.
To be honest, I think most of the squad are running on fumes now, playing high press football for back to back seasons is catching up with them.
Have we really changed the way we play or is fatigue the reason we're not seeing the fast counter attacking we're used to?
Plus we are really missing Raphinha with his pace and skill.

[Lumiukko]

A long time ago, when I used to work at Sellafield, a few miles down the road at Seascale there was a small bakers that used to do a Fat ba***rd Burger which was basically a large Stottie cake that contained a full English breakfast, Delicious, but an absolute heart stopper.

When I first started at Sellafield in 1986 you could get a set breakfast for 85 pence, which was pretty much all you can eat, bacon, sausage, fried eggs, scrambled eggs, tomatoes, mushrooms and about 30 slices of toast

That'll be the radioactive isotopes.

[White Riot]

That'll be the radioactive isotopes.

Puts in a spring in your step mate

[Ellandback1]

I've had the breakfast in a loaf from Greasy Pig, but when it used to be in Armley back in 2017. Guess it moved to Headingley since then. Near on killed me. I couldn't do anything for the rest of the day. It was delicious though.

I can imagine, but...........

Have you ever tried a deep fried chip butty?

[Lumiukko]

I can imagine, but...........

Have you ever tried a deep fried chip butty?

I've not, but that's definitely a carb load.

I've had deep fried haggis from a chippy in Whitby, which reminds me of what the Scottish fans used to sing on away trips to Europe. They'd take the local cuisine and chant "we're going to deep fry your <food>". Best one was in Spain some time ago and singing "We're going to deep fry your paella"

[Lumiukko]

Back on topic, regarding U23s. Some big decisions needed for the remainder of the season and pre-season. We need to see who can make the step up as a regular to the first team squad next season, who to loan out, and who to sell on. Gelhardt is the one closest for me; has the physical prowess, has Championship experience already, and I don't think he'll be bullied by big CBs. Sadly has an injury now which may rule him out getting any minutes in the last few games. Summerville could be a good replacement for Costa as, though he does sometimes get knocked off the ball, that's no different to Costa and he does have pace and end product. Greenwood and Drameh are close, and I reckon Drameh can now do a job as Ayling's understudy. Shackleton is an interesting one at 22 and needs a loan out I think. I wonder what happened with the loan link with Pochettino at PSG? Did I imagine that?