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Re: Covid Wars - In a Lockdown Far, Far Away...

Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 12:43 pm
by whiteroseboy
faaip wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 12:04 pm I double dose Vit d and Iron everyday, if I don't I get anaemic. That's not a surprise for a Coeliac really and it's impossible to balance as it takes 10 days to get blood tests back by which time my levels have changed. So I double dose daily high dose Vit D and either liquid iron or the slow release tablet and cross my fingers that's getting into my bloodstream. I still get days when I find it a struggle to complete even simple tasks which is fun for work..
10 days is far too long ridiculous in fact and a result of a broken system in your area by the sounds of it. Have sympathy on that one.

I get tested once per year for uric acid levels in the blood (makes me prone to gout attacks if high) usually inside 48 hours for doc to get result. For the record get mine done at Selby hospital, could go to York but small hospital is more efficient imho.

Re: Covid Wars - In a Lockdown Far, Far Away...

Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 12:44 pm
by SaraM
Leeds1000 wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 12:08 pm Origins of Covid? We all feel its a lab leak, but who is going to take responsibility for the leak and the fact its turned our existence upside down. If Covid came out of a lab then why, how and for what purpose was this thing being cultivated? Here stick this in your arm and everything will be ok is not good enough for me.

Meanwhile people are tearing strips of each other about vaccinations and their efficacy, old berating young, young towing the line despite being at very little risk and yet no one is asking the fundamental questions of why and will this ever happen again.
With all the restrictions, masks, deaths, vaccinations & segregation, i think its the least they should do don't you. Until they give us a answer on where this thing came from i will play no further part in their political drama. They can go F*** themselves right off.
Gain of function research; putting coronaviruses through an artificially selected and accelerated evolution in the lab, supposedly to enable us to deal with them if they ever evolve this way in nature.

The strongest argument for the lab leak hypothesis is that the evidence for SARS-CoV-2 evolving in nature, to the point where it could transmit rapidly amongst humans, is completely lacking. The proposals so far, bats to pangolins, etc, have come up with nothing, and look increasingly unlikely.

By the time we became aware of covid in the human population, it was already fully evolved to rapid transmission. That the fact it appeared, fully evolved, in the same place where this exact research was being carried out, should be a coincidence, is stretching credulity to breaking point.

Discussion around mass vaccination should really be focusing on the dangers of artificially evolving the virus further, by creating a selective environment. As vaccination doesn't prevent infection or transmission, every vaccinated person who passes the virus on is passing on a stronger, vaccine resistant, variant. If the majority of the population is vaccinated, then these stronger variants will become dominant.

This is why we really should only be vaccinating the most vulnerable, and looking to other prophylactics and natural immunity where possible. However, the current, deliberately created, climate of fear is making this discussion impossible.

Re: Covid Wars - In a Lockdown Far, Far Away...

Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 1:33 pm
by rab_rant
whiteroseboy wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:34 am Another view which backs up what I was taught -
https://www-popsugar-co-uk.cdn.ampproje ... c-44565486

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articl ... 0#symptoms
I am not disputing that high levels of zinc are toxic. I looked at the RDA on your video which ranged from 3-11 milligrams whereas in the video i posted the range in the blood was 45- 140 micrograms which is a factor of 1000

I don't seem to be able to dissuade you that i take a moderate line and in no way encourage taking excessive amounts.

Re: Covid Wars - In a Lockdown Far, Far Away...

Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 1:51 pm
by whiteroseboy
rab_rant wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 1:33 pm I am not disputing that high levels of zinc are toxic. I looked at the RDA on your video which ranged from 3-11 milligrams whereas in the video i posted the range in the blood was 45- 140 micrograms which is a factor of 1000

I don't seem to be able to dissuade you that i take a moderate line and in no way encourage taking excessive amounts.
Never said you were but I think it's important for people to know the limits.
Zinc and Vit D have health benefits but most people get enough in their diet.

Having higher amounts is dangerous we are actually agreeing on the levels.

Re: Covid Wars - In a Lockdown Far, Far Away...

Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 1:54 pm
by faaip
Radio 4 ran a bit about an Oxford college running tests into Covid and Vit D a few months ago, they had a control group, a double dose group and a group taking 8 times the amount of recommended vit D daily. They seemed to have no issue with high dosing and the results were showing taking a high dose would cut the risk of contraction by half and the effects of covid seemed to be lessened if it was caught...

Trials were still ongoing.. They didn't mention zinc

Re: Covid Wars - In a Lockdown Far, Far Away...

Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 2:05 pm
by whiteroseboy
SaraM wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 12:44 pm Gain of function research; putting coronaviruses through an artificially selected and accelerated evolution in the lab, supposedly to enable us to deal with them if they ever evolve this way in nature.

The strongest argument for the lab leak hypothesis is that the evidence for SARS-CoV-2 evolving in nature, to the point where it could transmit rapidly amongst humans, is completely lacking. The proposals so far, bats to pangolins, etc, have come up with nothing, and look increasingly unlikely.

By the time we became aware of covid in the human population, it was already fully evolved to rapid transmission. That the fact it appeared, fully evolved, in the same place where this exact research was being carried out, should be a coincidence, is stretching credulity to breaking point.

Discussion around mass vaccination should really be focusing on the dangers of artificially evolving the virus further, by creating a selective environment. As vaccination doesn't prevent infection or transmission, every vaccinated person who passes the virus on is passing on a stronger, vaccine resistant, variant. If the majority of the population is vaccinated, then these stronger variants will become dominant.

This is why we really should only be vaccinating the most vulnerable, and looking to other prophylactics and natural immunity where possible. However, the current, deliberately created, climate of fear is making this discussion impossible.
The fact that a far higher percentage of unvaccinated provide the growing death and hospitalisation numbers isn't reason enough for having a vaccine is beyond me.
All I can say is a good job we didn't think that way with the likes of Small Pox, TB, Polio, etc.

Just remember the delta & Brazil variant evolved before the vaccine roll out.

Personally and have made my judgements based on statistics and listening to people I trust.

I also respect everyone else's choice, appreciate you differ but we should all do what is right for ourselves.

As I said earlier the only thing that will give us the answers to who called it right is history.

Re: Covid Wars - In a Lockdown Far, Far Away...

Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 3:31 pm
by SaraM
whiteroseboy wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 2:05 pm The fact that a far higher percentage of unvaccinated provide the growing death and hospitalisation numbers isn't reason enough for having a vaccine is beyond me.
All I can say is a good job we didn't think that way with the likes of Small Pox, TB, Polio, etc.

Just remember the delta & Brazil variant evolved before the vaccine roll out.

Personally and have made my judgements based on statistics and listening to people I trust.

I also respect everyone else's choice, appreciate you differ but we should all do what is right for ourselves.

As I said earlier the only thing that will give us the answers to who called it right is history.
There's no comparison with small pox, tb, polio, etc, because this is a new vaccine technology being trialled in the middle of a global pandemic. You cannot simply look at past instances of vaccine use, and assume that this will be the same. You might find that assumption reassuring, but it is not based on science.

Already having immunity is reason enough for not having the vaccine, as I keep saying.

Re: Covid Wars - In a Lockdown Far, Far Away...

Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 3:33 pm
by Smudge3920
whiteroseboy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 8:05 am
The fact that a far higher percentage of unvaccinated provide the growing death and hospitalisation numbers
Not sure how that stat can be argued with ...

Re: Covid Wars - In a Lockdown Far, Far Away...

Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 3:45 pm
by whiteroseboy
SaraM wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 3:31 pm
Already having immunity is reason enough for not having the vaccine, as I keep saying.
As I said if that is your belief I respect you for it, just not mine.

I'm not qualified at science so stats will always play a leading role in any decision I make along with the vast majority of scientists that advise the vaccine. Of course as you have pointed out on more than one occasion there are differing views from some but from everything I've seen its a minority.

Out of interest as you are deeply into this (more so than me I admit) do you work in the science field ?

Re: Covid Wars - In a Lockdown Far, Far Away...

Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 3:56 pm
by whiteroseboy
Smudge3920 wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 3:33 pm Not sure how that stat can be argued with ...
That is exactly what I base my decision on :tup:

Here is a read with up to date American statistics -
https://en.as.com/en/2021/08/10/latest_ ... 09343.html

Re: Covid Wars - In a Lockdown Far, Far Away...

Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 4:02 pm
by Smudge3920
whiteroseboy wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 3:56 pm That is exactly what I base my decision on :tup:

Here is a read with up to date American statistics -
https://en.as.com/en/2021/08/10/latest_ ... 09343.html
Like you mate, being a layman have to read and ask advice before making an informed decision...and I totally support a persons right to choose...I just feel that a lot of those not taking the vaccine are playing Russian roulette when the numbers clearly show, particularly with the new variants that the vaccine does at the very least help to control the virus and reduce the risk of pro longed hospitalisation or indeed, death.

Re: Covid Wars - In a Lockdown Far, Far Away...

Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 4:03 pm
by faaip
whiteroseboy wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 3:45 pm As I said if that is your belief I respect you for it, just not mine.

I'm not qualified at science so stats will always play a leading role in any decision I make along with the vast majority of scientists that advise the vaccine. Of course as you have pointed out on more than one occasion there are differing views from some but from everything I've seen its a minority.

Out of interest as you are deeply into this (more so than me I admit) do you work in the science field ?
You can make stats say whatever you want them to. It's how you phrase the question.

Three types of lies - Lies, Damn lies and Statistics, it's not wrong

Re: Covid Wars - In a Lockdown Far, Far Away...

Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 4:06 pm
by Smudge3920
faaip wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 4:03 pm You can make stats say whatever you want them to. It's how you phrase the question.

Three types of lies - Lies, Damn lies and Statistics, it's not wrong
That old chesnut, which of course is true, but research deep enough, keep an open mind and not just discredit everything that differs to your own opinion, and you can make an informed decision...

Re: Covid Wars - In a Lockdown Far, Far Away...

Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 5:47 pm
by SaraM
whiteroseboy wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 3:45 pm As I said if that is your belief I respect you for it, just not mine.

I'm not qualified at science so stats will always play a leading role in any decision I make along with the vast majority of scientists that advise the vaccine. Of course as you have pointed out on more than one occasion there are differing views from some but from everything I've seen its a minority.

Out of interest as you are deeply into this (more so than me I admit) do you work in the science field ?
No, I'm not a scientist at all but, like many, I've tried to educate myself as best as I can to understand the implications of what's been happening. I've read and listened to a lot of different viewpoints and studies, and tried to evaluate from there. I am trained in philosophy, so I can generally tell when an argument isn't coherent.

My comments on immunity are not a belief, they are a presentation of the most recent research, as I posted. My comments about the risks of widespread vaccination are an opinion based on an assessment of a range of scientific viewpoints. It is not 'wrong' to say that certain things are unknown and contain a level of risk. It is more irresponsible to pretend we have certainty where we don't... in my opinion.

Re: Covid Wars - In a Lockdown Far, Far Away...

Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 5:56 pm
by Leeds1000
SaraM wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 12:44 pm Gain of function research; putting coronaviruses through an artificially selected and accelerated evolution in the lab, supposedly to enable us to deal with them if they ever evolve this way in nature.

The strongest argument for the lab leak hypothesis is that the evidence for SARS-CoV-2 evolving in nature, to the point where it could transmit rapidly amongst humans, is completely lacking. The proposals so far, bats to pangolins, etc, have come up with nothing, and look increasingly unlikely.

By the time we became aware of covid in the human population, it was already fully evolved to rapid transmission. That the fact it appeared, fully evolved, in the same place where this exact research was being carried out, should be a coincidence, is stretching credulity to breaking point.

Discussion around mass vaccination should really be focusing on the dangers of artificially evolving the virus further, by creating a selective environment. As vaccination doesn't prevent infection or transmission, every vaccinated person who passes the virus on is passing on a stronger, vaccine resistant, variant. If the majority of the population is vaccinated, then these stronger variants will become dominant.

This is why we really should only be vaccinating the most vulnerable, and looking to other prophylactics and natural immunity where possible. However, the current, deliberately created, climate of fear is making this discussion impossible.
Have to agree Sara. I am amazed with a average Covid death rate of 82 why more of the elderly community are not up in arms and screaming at the government for answers.... where did this flu came from. If this thing did (tell us something we don't know) escaped from a lab then imo, its one of the gravest crimes in history. Although the creation of the drug fentanyl won't be far behind.

The propaganda of you may kill granny was disgusting on the young. And what's going on in France right now beggars belief.
This thing is almost biblical in proportion in the devastation caused in society whether it be mental, spiritual, emotional or financial, it really has been a travesty. This is not the 1600's the truth is outhere and ready..... long live the truth.

Re: Covid Wars - In a Lockdown Far, Far Away...

Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 5:58 pm
by whiteroseboy
SaraM wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 5:47 pm No, I'm not a scientist at all but, like many, I've tried to educate myself as best as I can to understand the implications of what's been happening. I've read and listened to a lot of different viewpoints and studies, and tried to evaluate from there. I am trained in philosophy, so I can generally tell when an argument isn't coherent.

My comments on immunity are not a belief, they are a presentation of the most recent research, as I posted. My comments about the risks of widespread vaccination are an opinion based on an assessment of a range of scientific viewpoints. It is not 'wrong' to say that certain things are unknown and contain a level of risk. It is more irresponsible to pretend we have certainty where we don't... in my opinion.
Thanks for the reply appreciate your opinion.

Yes I read the research you posted as I have many things covering both sides of the argument but just came to my own conclusion.

Re: Covid Wars - In a Lockdown Far, Far Away...

Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 9:03 pm
by SaraM
whiteroseboy wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 5:58 pm Thanks for the reply appreciate your opinion.

Yes I read the research you posted as I have many things covering both sides of the argument but just came to my own conclusion.
:tup:

Re: Covid Wars - In a Lockdown Far, Far Away...

Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:07 pm
by SaraM
The new case for jabs makes the idea of vaccine passports absurd

It may be half a pandemic ago, but cast your mind back to last November when the good news about Covid vaccines first arrived. Boris Johnson heard the “bugle of the scientific cavalry coming over the brow of the hill”, and within weeks both Pfizer and Moderna had reported a stunning 95 per cent efficacy rate for their vaccines. To most of us, 95 per cent sounded rather a lot like 100 per cent: if we could get everyone vaccinated, Covid-19 would become a thing of the past.
That underlying presumption explains a lot of the discourse ever since: the drive to vaccinate younger people even if they were at negligible risk from Covid, to play their part in reducing transmission, for example, and of course the enthusiasm among the technocrat class for vaccine passports. If you are at a party or a football match with only certifiably double vaxxed folks, so the idea went, we could all breathe easy.
It hasn’t worked out quite like that. While the vaccines are still doing a good job of reducing serious disease and death, their protection against catching Covid has proven disappointing. A combination of new variants and fading immunity has left those early hopes of 95 per cent protection in tatters. As Professor Neil Ferguson put it only yesterday, “92 per cent of adults may have antibodies at the moment, but only about half of those are protected against infection, so there’s a lot of transmission going on between vaccinated people.” His university, Imperial, now estimates protection against infection from two vaccines at 50-60 per cent.
Meanwhile, Israel, one of the earliest countries to vaccinate almost all its citizens and therefore a useful sign of things to come, is experiencing a surge in infections. In May, the Israeli Ministry of Health estimated the efficacy of two vaccines against infection at 95 per cent; by July 5, that estimate had fallen to 64 per cent; and the most recent estimate puts it at 39 per cent. They’re now rolling out booster shots to try to shore up the crumbling wall of immunity against infection.
As usual, there’s a lag of a month or two before the full implications of such a fast-changing situation sink in, but let me try to put it simply. If you have had your two vaccines, it doesn’t mean you will not get Covid: there is no way to remove that possibility. Happily, if you do get it you are much, much less likely to get seriously ill or die, so it is absolutely worth getting vaccinated, as well as taking booster shots when they are offered. But the case rests on protecting yourself from ill health, rather than other people. And you can leave behind any notion of dividing the world between the safe, clean, vaccinated majority and the scary unvaccinated hordes – Covid will continue to circulate among the entire population, hopefully at manageable levels.
The implications of this development in terms of policy are becoming clear. It delivers a final coup-de-grace to the “Zero Covid” movement, as if that goal was ever achievable; and it removes much of the moral argument for vaccinating the youngest, who will evidently be able to pass on the infection in any case.
Perhaps most significantly, it represents a hole under the water line for vaccine passports. If you are worried about catching Covid at a gathering, which would you rather: that everybody has done a quick test at the door, or that everybody presents vaccination papers? The former now makes more sense – whether the powers that be admit as much remains to be seen.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/0 ... ts-absurd/

Re: Covid Wars - In a Lockdown Far, Far Away...

Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 5:18 pm
by Leeds1000
I don't read newspapers but apparently the Sunday Times had a good investigation into the Origins of Covid and the Lab Leak. The WHO were reportedly bought off and just making things up to suit there ends. See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil.

Feel the evil. :twisted:

Re: Covid Wars - In a Lockdown Far, Far Away...

Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2021 8:40 am
by SaraM