Our Excellent GP who lives locally was due to go out for a meal on Wed eve Leon to the restaurant in the village we all went to Leon. But he pulled out saying that there were too many Covid cases around and a few particularly bad ones.....and like I said, he's a doctor. We also have our very own forum medic OB who openly states "Covid scares the " out of him
Covid
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Re: Covid
Re: Covid
Many doctors are extremely worriedwhiteswan wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:17 pm Our Excellent GP who lives locally was due to go out for a meal on Wed eve Leon to the restaurant in the village we all went to Leon. But he pulled out saying that there were too many Covid cases around and a few particularly bad ones.....and like I said, he's a doctor. We also have our very own forum medic OB who openly states "Covid scares the " out of him
Dr Sarah Jarvis whom often appears on TV is very concerned.
One doctor/surgeon from York hospital spoke last week on our local news that they had 90 covid patients with the likelihood of more all mainly young people very poorly.
Asked if he was worried with the current situation....his words "very concerned"
Re: Covid
I read somewhere that covid was down at 20th on the UK death list, altho i am not sure what was in front of it tho? Mi old man is convinced the vaccine saved him from a severe symptoms, who am i to disagree? I know the survival rate was also high before the vaccine but no one talks about that anymore.
We know its now been mandated to attend a football match you need a CP. I am sure you will all agree when the PL & the FL get around to mandating vaccines for its players we will all feel like we are in this together. Believe it or not some pensioners are still adamant that the government honour the triple lock pension rise, why the kids of the future roll around looking for scraps to feed on. We are all in it together but some of us will be paying lockdown back for the next 30 years despite being at very little risk of death, certainly no more than flu. Love and peace to everyone. God is great!
Up the Leeds!
We know its now been mandated to attend a football match you need a CP. I am sure you will all agree when the PL & the FL get around to mandating vaccines for its players we will all feel like we are in this together. Believe it or not some pensioners are still adamant that the government honour the triple lock pension rise, why the kids of the future roll around looking for scraps to feed on. We are all in it together but some of us will be paying lockdown back for the next 30 years despite being at very little risk of death, certainly no more than flu. Love and peace to everyone. God is great!
Up the Leeds!
Re: Covid
Where is the confusion? You are using the word 'informed' to undermine the need for consent. Each person makes their decision at the level of understanding they have. It is totally wrong to suggest that be taken away or overruled because we are not all 'experts', especially when the experts themselves disagree.Mountain wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:42 am Not only are you getting confused by the issues, but you are getting strident too!
Obviously all treatment is based on consent. I have not denied that, in fact I specifically said if a cancer patient chooses crystals over medication, that is their right. You may have missed that point, but clearly that is the opposite of what you claim I said.
The issue I have is with the word "informed". You and I rejecting oncology - or more pertinently for this thread epidemiology and immunology - is not really "informed" at all. Because, as I said before, if we are being honest, we know the vast majority lack the ability to review and assess the information.
Licensing an untried vaccine in a pandemic is a gamble, a calculated risk. To date it is one that seems to be paying off, in that it seems to be reducing serious illness and death. Hopefully that continues to be the case. However, even your experts cannot know what the longer term consequences will be.
As the vaccine doesn't prevent transmission, the virus passed on by the vaccinated is likely to be of a potentially stronger, vaccine resistant strain. By vaccinating so widely whilst the virus is at such high levels in the population, we are potentially creating the conditions to evolve the virus into something much worse. No one can know whether this will happen, but it is a known risk, and therefore foolish and dishonest to dismiss it. This is aside from any individual health risks from the vaccine itself.
I am not minimising the threat of covid, nor am I against vaccination generally as an approach. I am pointing out that this particular vaccine, in these specific circumstances, comes with a unique set of risks. I have also pointed out that there are financial and political agendas which push vaccination over other possible approaches, so that policy making isn't purely, or even primarily, in the interests of public health. These are all factors to consider. Do what the experts or the government tell you and shut up won't wash.
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Re: Covid
The vaccine could also be responsible for the mutations too.
"Never debate an idiot, they'll only drag you down to their level and they have the advantage of experience"
Re: Covid
That's the second time you have wrongly attributed an argument, presumably make it easier for you to attack it. I said (and I'll use direct quotes so you can compare it with your point above)
What you are repeatedly doing is conflating consent and knowledge. If I smoke and drink to excess - and I've done both - that is completely my right. No one can take away that right. It doesn't make it sensible or healthy, but it is my right. What would be nonsensical is for me to say "I've done my own research, I know my body, and I'm going to go against the medical experts on this and say my choice is healthy". Having the right to do or refuse to do something does not mean my thoughts on the matter are as valid as the experts.
Well, at least we agree that the pro vaccination side are the "experts". In all areas of life, I think "do what the experts say" is actually pretty good advice!
Re: Covid
I'm not conflating those things at all, I'm perfectly well aware of the difference. You're misunderstanding what I'm saying, and you're not responding to the points I'm actually making.Mountain wrote: ↑Sat Jul 31, 2021 2:00 pm
That's the second time you have wrongly attributed an argument, presumably make it easier for you to attack it. I said (and I'll use direct quotes so you can compare it with your point above)
What you are repeatedly doing is conflating consent and knowledge. If I smoke and drink to excess - and I've done both - that is completely my right. No one can take away that right. It doesn't make it sensible or healthy, but it is my right. What would be nonsensical is for me to say "I've done my own research, I know my body, and I'm going to go against the medical experts on this and say my choice is healthy". Having the right to do or refuse to do something does not mean my thoughts on the matter are as valid as the experts.
Well, at least we agree that the pro vaccination side are the "experts". In all areas of life, I think "do what the experts say" is actually pretty good advice!
Re: Covid
I think this is one of those ones where we could argue all day and neither will budge.
I know from other threads that you're intelligent and I agree with you on a number of issues. Evidently not this one but I guess life would be boring if everyone agreed all the time!
Re: Covid
I still think it's more of a misunderstanding than a disagreement. I am pointing out unknowns and risks about this particular vaccine under these specific circumstances. That isn't an opinion, those unknowns and risks are facts.Mountain wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:48 am I think this is one of those ones where we could argue all day and neither will budge.
I know from other threads that you're intelligent and I agree with you on a number of issues. Evidently not this one but I guess life would be boring if everyone agreed all the time!
You can choose to ignore them, or you can decide they are risks worth taking; that is where disagreement may arise, because the risks/ benefits will be different for each person. We could also disagree on the optimum social policy for the greatest public health benefit.
For me, I am choosing not to have the vaccine because it adds nothing to the natural immunity I already have (I posted research papers to back this up), it introduces unnecessary personal health risks, and I am persuaded that vaccinating a high percentage of the population whilst the virus is widespread increases the chances of artificially selecting for stronger virus variants in the future; in fact, there is some evidence that this is already happening.
I'm not trying to fall out with you, I accept that your choices may be different, and perfectly valid within your framework and circumstances. What I don't accept is being belittled, shamed or cajoled for the choices I am making. I am not saying you are doing that, but others certainly are. I find that ignorant and disrespectful.
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Re: Covid
#Covid #Be Safe
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Re: Covid
Probably because they are catching the virus from those who are not vaccinated, certainly the case here in the UK.
Two young friends (one a pal of mine) caught covid watching one of the England games in a Beverley pub & then promptly took is home to their wives, fortunately they didn't infect their parents whom are in the vulnerable risk group.
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Re: Covid
Certainly it makes a mockery of covid passports if the double jabed can become infected.1964white wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 10:17 am Probably because they are catching the virus from those who are not vaccinated, certainly the case here in the UK.
Two young friends (one a pal of mine) caught covid watching one of the England games in a Beverley pub & then promptly took is home to their wives, fortunately they didn't infect their parents whom are in the vulnerable risk group.
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Re: Covid
Indeed and the sooner people accept this Leon, maybe they will start to accept preventative measures that will save many lives...as you say the vaccinations which means they will only get ill as opposed to possible death.
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Re: Covid
I suppose this will put an end to the supposition that only the uninnoculated are the ones that can infect othersSmudge3920 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 10:30 am Indeed and the sooner people accept this Leon, maybe they will start to accept preventative measures that will save many lives...as you say the vaccinations which means they will only get ill as opposed to possible death.