Covid

For everything Leeds United related and everything not - Have your say... the Marching on Together way!
Forum rules
Please be sure you are acquainted with the forum rules outlined within our FAQs.

Help support the site by using our Amazon Affiliate link when making any purchases from Amazon.

Covid passports

Yes
20
45%
No
21
48%
Don't know
3
7%
 
Total votes: 44

User avatar
1964white
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 127717
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:46 am
Twitter: @1964white

Re: Covid

Post by 1964white »

Majority of us wouldn't be here today had 30% of our nation refused vaccination for smallpox, tuberculosis, diphtheria, hepatitis B, etc in decades gone by :( unfortunately we live in a very different society nowadays.
User avatar
Smudge3920
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 5204
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2020 4:08 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Covid

Post by Smudge3920 »

1964white wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:32 pm Majority of us wouldn't be here today had 30% of our nation had refused vaccination for smallpox, tuberculosis, diphtheria, hepatitis B, etc in decades gone by :( unfortunately we live in a very different society nowadays.
:tup:
User avatar
Sara
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 9367
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:27 pm

Re: Covid

Post by Sara »

1964white wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:32 pm Majority of us wouldn't be here today had 30% of our nation refused vaccination for smallpox, tuberculosis, diphtheria, hepatitis B, etc in decades gone by :( unfortunately we live in a very different society nowadays.
Most vaccines have gone through proper testing and trials over years before they get to the public. Can you name any other that has been rolled out globally, on an emergency license for a brand new technology, in the midst of a pandemic?
Mountain
First Team
First Team
Posts: 2285
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 5:20 am

Re: Covid

Post by Mountain »

SaraM wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:01 pm Most vaccines have gone through proper testing and trials over years before they get to the public. Can you name any other that has been rolled out globally, on an emergency license for a brand new technology, in the midst of a pandemic?
But developing a vaccine worked on by thousands of scientists all over the world with billions in funding in an age where computers can process and exchange information like never before should be a bit quicker than Jonas Salk tackling polio on his own with pencils and sheets of paper.
User avatar
Smudge3920
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 5204
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2020 4:08 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Covid

Post by Smudge3920 »

Mountain wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:58 am But developing a vaccine worked on by thousands of scientists all over the world with billions in funding in an age where computers can process and exchange information like never before should be a bit quicker than Jonas Salk tackling polio on his own with pencils and sheets of paper.
:tup:.. One of the sad side effects of covid has been a decrease in common sense, in many area's.
User avatar
1964white
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 127717
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:46 am
Twitter: @1964white

Re: Covid

Post by 1964white »

So we have 1000's of young people from teenagers to 30yo+ with covid in our hospitals, many won't survive!

Forest, Norwich & Preston have called off friendlies matches this week.

The Rugby Super League is decimated with covid

And millions of our dense idiotic society think it's all over :roll:
User avatar
Johnboy1965
Subs Bench
Subs Bench
Posts: 812
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:53 am

Re: Covid

Post by Johnboy1965 »

It should always be about choice, especially when it comes to matters of health. Many of the young people who refuse the vaccine may be doing so because of fears about the knock on effects when they have children and their children's children- as as far as I am aware none of us know what the long term effects will be in years to come.
To say everyone must be vaccinated is very short sited and is only relevant for the here and now with no regard for future implications.
Before anyone jumps down my throat I have had both vaccines and generally are in favour though surely it should always be about personal choice- whether you agree or not, otherwise we will end up sleepwalking into a society where we are being brainwashed and controlled and losing the ability to actually think for ourselves
Mountain
First Team
First Team
Posts: 2285
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 5:20 am

Re: Covid

Post by Mountain »

Johnboy1965 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:53 am It should always be about choice, especially when it comes to matters of health...
For billions around the world, there is no choice, they have no access to the vaccine. They envy the choices that we have. If you talk to friends in developing countries, they will tell you that people in their communities view debates about refusing the vaccine, and protests about Government control because of fears about drinking in pubs without Covid passports, with disbelief.

For all of us on any side of the debate, it always should be remembered that having choices and having debates is, first and foremost, a privilege.
User avatar
Johnboy1965
Subs Bench
Subs Bench
Posts: 812
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:53 am

Re: Covid

Post by Johnboy1965 »

Mountain wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:06 am For billions around the world, there is no choice, they have no access to the vaccine. They envy the choices that we have. If you talk to friends in developing countries, they will tell you that people in their communities view debates about refusing the vaccine, and protests about Government control because of fears about drinking in pubs without Covid passports, with disbelief.

For all of us on any side of the debate, it always should be remembered that having choices and having debates is, first and foremost, a privilege.
I agree with you, choice is a privilege and it's one that as a democracy we have fought hard to get and I for one don't want to lose it.
When I talk about choices I am doing so from a position of what I see happening in this country not globally.
User avatar
Sara
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 9367
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:27 pm

Re: Covid

Post by Sara »

Mountain wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:58 am But developing a vaccine worked on by thousands of scientists all over the world with billions in funding in an age where computers can process and exchange information like never before should be a bit quicker than Jonas Salk tackling polio on his own with pencils and sheets of paper.
You can't speed up the observations of effects over time, obviously. It isn't just about development and efficacy, it's also about how it interacts with the immune system and the virus in the longer term.

There is a higher than normal level of risk with this new technology, and the manner in which it is being deployed; it is simply dishonest to deny that. People should be able to make a fully informed choice, not be railroaded by fear driven zealotry.
Mountain
First Team
First Team
Posts: 2285
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 5:20 am

Re: Covid

Post by Mountain »

SaraM wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:53 am People should be able to make a fully informed choice, not be railroaded by fear driven zealotry.
But people should also be honest and admit that, unless they have a particular expertise in the area, they are in no position to make "an informed choice" because they lack the basic skills needed to review and assess that information. If I say "oncology is nonsense, I'm curing my cancer by crystals" that is of course my choice and prerogative, but as I have no expertise in cancer treatment it could hardly be really informed.
User avatar
Sara
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 9367
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:27 pm

Re: Covid

Post by Sara »

Mountain wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:09 am But people should also be honest and admit that, unless they have a particular expertise in the area, they are in no position to make "an informed choice" because they lack the basic skills needed to review and assess that information. If I say "oncology is nonsense, I'm curing my cancer by crystals" that is of course my choice and prerogative, but as I have no expertise in cancer treatment it could hardly be really informed.
By that logic, only virologists would be qualified to take the vaccine, and only economists should be allowed to vote!

I'm sorry, but you're talking nonsense. All ethical treatment is based on the principle of consent.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/consent-to-treatment/
User avatar
Johnboy1965
Subs Bench
Subs Bench
Posts: 812
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:53 am

Re: Covid

Post by Johnboy1965 »

Mountain wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:09 am But people should also be honest and admit that, unless they have a particular expertise in the area, they are in no position to make "an informed choice" because they lack the basic skills needed to review and assess that information. If I say "oncology is nonsense, I'm curing my cancer by crystals" that is of course my choice and prerogative, but as I have no expertise in cancer treatment it could hardly be really informed.
And therein lies the problem- no one is in a position to make an informed choice either for or against as the effects against time cannot be predicted- people need to do what feels right for them based on what information is available and no one has the right to dictate to anyone when it comes to their own health choices whatever their reasons.
Mountain
First Team
First Team
Posts: 2285
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 5:20 am

Re: Covid

Post by Mountain »

SaraM wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:29 am By that logic, only virologists would be qualified to take the vaccine, and only economists should be allowed to vote!

I'm sorry, but you're talking nonsense. All ethical treatment is based on the principle of consent.
Not only are you getting confused by the issues, but you are getting strident too! :)

Obviously all treatment is based on consent. I have not denied that, in fact I specifically said if a cancer patient chooses crystals over medication, that is their right. You may have missed that point, but clearly that is the opposite of what you claim I said.

The issue I have is with the word "informed". You and I rejecting oncology - or more pertinently for this thread epidemiology and immunology - is not really "informed" at all. Because, as I said before, if we are being honest, we know the vast majority lack the ability to review and assess the information.
User avatar
1964white
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 127717
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:46 am
Twitter: @1964white

Re: Covid

Post by 1964white »

Research by public health England indicated the covid vaccine has prevented :

60,000 deaths
52,600 hospitalisations
22,000,000 infections

So knock the vaccine as much as you wish, we'd be right in the mire without it
User avatar
Johnboy1965
Subs Bench
Subs Bench
Posts: 812
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:53 am

Re: Covid

Post by Johnboy1965 »

I hope in 20 years time PHE aren't reporting
60,000 Birth Defects
52,600 hospitalisations due to genetic complications of the vaccine passed on to the next generation.
22,000,000 infections of other diseases due to lack of immunity

Truth is we don't and can't know the long term effects of the vaccines. and its too early to be patting ourselves on the back just yet. Its a step in the right direction, sure' but one thing is certain, this type of virus is here to stay regardless of vaccinations. It will always find a way to evolve and mutate because that's what corona virus's do. We will eventually have to learn to live with it I'm afraid. There is no panacea.
User avatar
The Subhuman
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 55508
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:03 am
Location: God's own county

Re: Covid

Post by The Subhuman »

1964white wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:11 am Research by public health England indicated the covid vaccine has prevented :

60,000 deaths
52,600 hospitalisations
22,000,000 infections

So knock the vaccine as much as you wish, we'd be right in the mire without it
Funny, they have to be at best guesses or statistical manipulations ...
"Never debate an idiot, they'll only drag you down to their level and they have the advantage of experience"
User avatar
Orange Box
Manager
Manager
Posts: 3299
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:51 pm
Location: West of Scotland, formerly Cas Vegas

Re: Covid

Post by Orange Box »

The uk government has actually legislated to protect the the rights of individuals in making decisions regarding their own health treatment and social wellbeing . The Mental Capacity Act of 2005 covers this, and basically assumes individuals have the right to make their own decisions, unless it can be proven they lack the mental capacity to so do. The lack of capacity assumption is criteria based and can be made out of court by members of certain professions.

The Act protects individuals in making so called unwise decisions and doesn’t require that individual to justify or defend that decision.

For clarity, I am double jabbed, yet an informed rejector of the annual flu vaccines. COVID scares the sh:t out of me and I believe the risk of probable serious health complications outweighs the possibility of unknown future side effects from the vaccine.
WARNING: During game time, any post I make is not to be taken seriously, neither is it meant as offence. I'm a hot-blooded creature prone to moments of exasperation and expletive.
User avatar
1964white
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 127717
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:46 am
Twitter: @1964white

Re: Covid

Post by 1964white »

faaip wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:47 pm Funny, they have to be at best guesses or statistical manipulations ...
Just quoting genuine information as oppose to others on here acquired from social media sites.

If only people listen to the professionals such as scientists, surgeons, GP's as oppose to all the propaganda spilled out on Facebook/Twitter/Instagram, etc
User avatar
1964white
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 127717
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:46 am
Twitter: @1964white

Re: Covid

Post by 1964white »

Orange Box wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:21 pm The uk government has actually legislated to protect the the rights of individuals in making decisions regarding their own health treatment and social wellbeing . The Mental Capacity Act of 2005 covers this, and basically assumes individuals have the right to make their own decisions, unless it can be proven they lack the mental capacity to so do. The lack of capacity assumption is criteria based and can be made out of court by members of certain professions.

The Act protects individuals in making so called unwise decisions and doesn’t require that individual to justify or defend that decision.

For clarity, I am double jabbed, yet an informed rejector of the annual flu vaccines. COVID scares the sh:t out of me and I believe the risk of probable serious health complications outweighs the possibility of unknown future side effects from the vaccine.
This side-effects opinion is blown totally out or proportion.

Typical of our younger generation & other objectors to the vaccine.
Post Reply