Summer 2021 squad and transfer discussion- No more incomings for us.

[SG90]

Phil reiterated in the comments post FulhM that the club are looking for 5 new signings in the summer and that is likely to be for the 1st team.

What about getting rid of players?

Kiko, Alioski, Cooper, Klich, Forshaw, Roberts, Costa should all go if we want to progress.

That waste of space Buoy is finally out of contract as well.

[andrewjohnsmith]

What about getting rid of players?

Kiko, Alioski, Cooper, Klich, Forshaw, Roberts, Costa should all go if we want to progress.

That waste of space Buoy is finally out of contract as well.

I'm not really in favor of sweeping changes. But we also have about 5 or 6 of the under 23s that deserve a place in the squad next season too

[andrewjohnsmith]

I can’t believe that we’re debating getting rid of Llorente, he’s only in the door. As it stands I’d be looking for a LB & an 8/10 in the summer, the rest we can cover from within.

The White boat has sailed, he’ll go to Liverpool or Man U for stupid money and we no longer need him at the back.

I don't care who's debating it. Llorente, Koch, and Strujik will all be here next season and give us excellent options

[1964white]

LB & the attacking midfield positions are definitely our weakest areas, LWB was our weak spot in the championship until Dallas was allocated the role, this season his services have been required elsewhere.

Definitely need another striker, one goal scoring No.9 is not enough.

[Ron Swanson]

Some players will undoubtedly leave, but I think it should be those on the periphery rather than binning lads like Klich, who seems burnt out to me, as much as anything else.

The only player we’ve spent £££ on that I’d invite offers on would be Costa, because we parted with £15m+ and the chance to recoup some of that would be welcome.

[Mountain]

Kiko, Alioski, Cooper, Klich, Forshaw, Roberts, Costa should all go if we want to progress.

I'd hold on to Klich, Cooper and Alioski. They have all played lots of games in a team that has real ambitions of finishing in the top 10, it may cost tens of millions to find replacements for any one of them to finish what, realistically, 2 or 3 places higher up? And not just the fee, but their wages will be multiples of what the club pays Klich and co.

Similarly, I'd keep Roberts and Costa. His performance against Chelsea showed one thing, Roberts can very much play at Premier League level. Now that might not be as a starter, granted, but a good team needs a good subs bench too.

There are obvious issues with Kiko and Forshaw, though I'd have sympathy for Forshaw.

[Cjay]

PSG are reportedly considering a bid for Meslier as he is seen as a cheaper alternative to David De Gea and more attainable than Hugo Lloris.

Every major club in Europe wants De Paul now and its pretty accepted that we made a massive mistake. Barcelona are the latest club to be linked with the Argentinian in a deal that could be worth upto £45mil.

More reports out of Spain indicate Rodrigo is unhappy and would like to move back to Spain. They highlight that he didnt want to move to England in the first place, how he wanted a move that would allow him to stay in Spain but when that didnt materialise he had little choice with Valencia almost pushing him out the door as they needed the money.

They also highlight the very real possibility that his lack of game time here may and already has cost him his international place and potentially his last chance at a major international tournament.

They highlight how he is playing a role he doesnt want and simply that the move hasnt worked out as hoped.

All been said before but all perfectly plausible.

[Mountain]

Every major club in Europe wants De Paul now and its pretty accepted that we made a massive mistake. Barcelona are the latest club to be linked with the Argentinian in a deal that could be worth upto £45mil...

Sounds like every major club in Europe made a massive mistake when he was available for 3 million a few years back?

[Cjay]

Sounds like every major club in Europe made a massive mistake when he was available for 3 million a few years back?

Tbf thats 5 years ago, many 21 year olds slip through the net.

Udinese saw something others didnt.

But last summer he was already one of the top performing cms in Europe and for a newly promoted club to turn down that sort of player is madness.

The club got it wrong, dont think anyone would debate that tbh.

What i find really weird though is how our club value players.

They didn't want to spend £35mil on De Paul.

But they paid Wolves £21mil for Costa (£15mil upfront with a £5mil promotion bonus).

They commited to pay over £20mil for JKA a deal we are having to go to court to get out of.

They were going to pay £20mil for Cuisance, a deal that Marseille very quickly got halved.

They paid £30mil for Rodrigo, a striker who for all his skills and talents isnt a goalscorer and absolutely does not suit the role we are trying to shoehorn him in to (a role De Paul is naturally suited to) not to mention his age and lack of resale value.

They were offering over £30mil for Ben White, an untested Championship cb.

And yet they refused to pay £35mil for a player in a position we needed who had been statistically one of the top performing midfielders in Europe for the last few years.

It doesn't make sense to me.

How can you be willing to vastly over pay in so many cases but unwilling to pay a fair price for a player who you need and who has a track record of being what you need?

Costa for £21mil
Cuisance for £20mil
JKA for £20mil+
White for £30mil+

But refuse to pay £35mil for De Paul.

Dont get it but then again i dont rate Orta so i kind of do.

[Mountain]

But last summer he was already one of the top performing cms in Europe and for a newly promoted club to turn down that sort of player is madness...
....
How can you be willing to vastly over pay in so many cases but unwilling to pay a fair price for a player who you need and who has a track record of being what you need?
...

But then your point is that last summer every club got it wrong by not being in the race to sign him when "one of the top performing cms in Europe" was available for just £30 million.

And what if he joined Leeds and didn't settle, got Covid, or injuries, just like Koch or Rodrigo? What if paying 45 million for him turns out to be as wrong as not paying 3 million for him?

I think of all clubs in the PL, Leeds has possibly the least to beat itself up about over transfers that went badly, or signings that were missed. I suspect the club has the most points per million spent of any. Which would kinda put Orta near the top of the pile, no?

[Cjay]

But then your point is that last summer every club got it wrong by not being in the race to sign him when "one of the top performing cms in Europe" was available for just £30 million.

And what if he joined Leeds and didn't settle, got Covid, or injuries, just like Koch or Rodrigo? What if paying 45 million for him turns out to be as wrong as not paying 3 million for him?

I think of all clubs in the PL, Leeds has possibly the least to beat itself up about over transfers that went badly, or signings that were missed. I suspect the club has the most points per million spent of any. Which would kinda put Orta near the top of the pile, no?

Money was tighter across Europe than the Premier league last summer, that may explain why other clubs weren't willing to spend what Udinese wanted.


Your 2nd paragraph is just a series of what ifs? Imo not paying the asking price was a mistake, what ifs are irrelevant as they are speculation. Was £35mil fair? Yes imo

Do you think hand on heart not signing De Paul was the right thing to do?

Have we got value for money for Koch, Llorente and Rodrigo? Probably not.

If Orta had had his way we would have got Dan James and Cuisance, he admitted that himself.

No Raph either.

Circumstances saved Orta, Rob Price and Manure refusing to sell.

You are correct about the money and point thing (almost Burnley are top) but imo that is mainly due to Bielsa (who Orta.does desevre credit for) not because of Orta's recruitment which imo is generally poor and De Paul is just another of his many poor choices.

[weasel]

I think we needed competition for Bamford or possibly a replacement. If Bamford hadn't started the season well how many games would he have got before Rodrigo took his place. As such we definitely needed a quality striker of which Rodrigo filled the mould as well as having a bi of versatility. The covid and injury have obviously not helped him but the main problem he has had has been Bamford's goals.

As such a striker and a centreback were the priorities. We moved and got Koch and Rodrigo early. I think we wanted 2 centrebacks given Cooper has always missed a few games with injuries. Koch had obviously been lined up for a while and then it was a case of could we get White. We probably had a budget to get White and when that came to nothing then the club probably then moved to see what we could get with the money we hadn't had to spend on White. Presumably that was around £35m but we wanted to try to get 2 players, another CB (Llorente) and then a player we could get with what we had left, presumably about £20m. The first move was for Cuisance as we then didn't have enough to tempt Udinese to sell. When that fell through we paid slightly less and got Raphinha.

As such I feel the attacking player, be it DePaul, Cusiance or Raphinha was the luxury signing whereas the other 3 signings (2CBs and a striker) were the priorities. With the money we had left after sealing the priority signings we simply didn't have enough to tempt Udinese.

[Mountain]

Your 2nd paragraph is just a series of what ifs? Imo not paying the asking price was a mistake, what ifs are irrelevant as they are speculation.

But...your entire point is "what if Leeds had signed him" and speculation that it would have been a great success! There is an inherent contradiction in the suggestion that speculation that he would have been great is relevant, any speculation that it may not have worked out is irrelevant.

[Cjay]

But...your entire point is "what if Leeds had signed him" and speculation that it would have been a great success! There is an inherent contradiction in the suggestion that speculation that he would have been great is relevant, any speculation that it may not have worked out is irrelevant.

Ok fair point.

But my point was for £35mil it was a fair price and we should have done the deal.

He was a standout player in a position we required and still do to this day.

And based on his form this season (he has seemingly just got better) our decision looks even poorer now.

Of course he could have flopped like any player as you say but he has had an incredible season and imo it goes to show that he was worth the risk.

Irrelevant was rude i apologise for that.

[Cjay]

A new link.

Sevilla winger Lucas Ocampos.

Given its from football insider take it with a huge pinch of salt.

However, Ocampos was signed by Bielsa while he was at Marseille and has spoken of his admiration for Marcelo.

If MB isnt convinced by Costa or Harrison then Ocampos would be a massive upgrade.
He has a €62million release clause but Spanish clubs are in financial trouble so that likely could come down.

v=

[Mountain]

Irrelevant was rude i apologise for that.

Oh no need to apologise! It wasn't rude or uncivil at all, I've been called a lot worse! And I don't disagree with the disappointment that de Paul wasn't bought, in fact I said in January I felt Rodrigo should be sold to fund another bid as Raphinha had so clearly nailed down the right wing that Rodrigo was now a little lost, and a quality central midfielder is more pressing need.

[1964white]

Tbf thats 5 years ago, many 21 year olds slip through the net.

Udinese saw something others didnt.

But last summer he was already one of the top performing cms in Europe and for a newly promoted club to turn down that sort of player is madness.

The club got it wrong, dont think anyone would debate that tbh.

What i find really weird though is how our club value players.

They didn't want to spend £35mil on De Paul.

But they paid Wolves £21mil for Costa (£15mil upfront with a £5mil promotion bonus).

They commited to pay over £20mil for JKA a deal we are having to go to court to get out of.

They were going to pay £20mil for Cuisance, a deal that Marseille very quickly got halved.

They paid £30mil for Rodrigo, a striker who for all his skills and talents isnt a goalscorer and absolutely does not suit the role we are trying to shoehorn him in to (a role De Paul is naturally suited to) not to mention his age and lack of resale value.

They were offering over £30mil for Ben White, an untested Championship cb.

And yet they refused to pay £35mil for a player in a position we needed who had been statistically one of the top performing midfielders in Europe for the last few years.

It doesn't make sense to me.

How can you be willing to vastly over pay in so many cases but unwilling to pay a fair price for a player who you need and who has a track record of being what you need?

Costa for £21mil
Cuisance for £20mil
JKA for £20mil+
White for £30mil+

But refuse to pay £35mil for De Paul.

Dont get it but then again i dont rate Orta so i kind of do.

That doesn't make good reading Cjay

[SG90]

Sounds like every major club in Europe made a massive mistake when he was available for 3 million a few years back?

I'm amazed the Pozzos never gave him to Watford with all the TV money in the PL.

[Cjay]

Spanish media coming up with a new old name.

They say that if Rodrigo goes we will look to sign Espanyol striker Raul De Tomas as his replacement.

We have been linked to him a number of times over the last few years. Could be nothing or maybe Orta is a fan?

And more excitingly.

We have been linked with 19 year old English wonderkid winger Noni Madueke.

He was a youth star for Spurs, rejected their contract offer (as well as one from Manure) and went to PSV in Holland to make a name for himself.

9 goals and 8 assists this season including a few in the Europa League in only 12 matches worth of minutes has awoken the rest of football to his potential.

Bayern are one of his admirers but apparently we have made the first move.

He is a winger/striker.

v=

[SG90]

Not a link, but more a player I'd wish we'd sign. Out of contract in December so wouldn't be too expensive. Great finisher and a real baller, Kaio Jorge would be perfect for Bielsaball.